[For those too lazy to read, I made a short summary at the end of this post.]

To start off I would like to say that despite all the other threads demanding nerfs and other bad things to the gunship in GSF, I believe that they are mostly fine as it is. However, in the past few days, more and more people have completed their ship's talent trees, and as stupid as it sounds to some of you, people have spent tens of thousands of coms and cartel coins to master their ion railguns, the supposedly worst of the 3. I'm here to to explain to you, why of all things, gunships are going to be nerfed because of their ion railguns.

I would like to first provide some background of myself. I fly mainly Strike Fighters, so GS one shotting people were never much of an issue for me, unless the lucky son of a hutt crits. Even then, I still accept it as part of the game as I only have to wait a couple of seconds to fly up and unload a couple of missiles into him. I do play scout and GS for their 2X bonus dailies.

The problem with gunships are not their "Overpowered" shields and utilities (rotational thrusters), but, their fully upgraded Ion railgun.

There are teams, mostly Imperials, who build their entire pre-made crew along this concept. I think Ion railgun provides them too much utilities, they need to be fixed before the same fate that happened to Operatives befalls Gunships as well. Ion Railgun can drain engine and weapons power that seems to work regardless the charge. Not only that, they can ether cut off regeneration completely for 6 seconds, or slow you by 30%. Ether one is a death sentence in a warzone as you cannot escape or fight back. If you try to retaliate with more people, Ion railgun chains, one mistake in the approach of your buddy means you and the other people near him gets the same punishment. These teams abuse these functions, and leaves the opposing side crippled, as they can't shoot or boost. Scouts and strikers wait near the GS for an easy kill, or the GS simply finishes them off with a slugger railgun. Often, I have found that the rest of the team but the Gunships on their own are awful pilots, they aren't used to their targets fighting back, their skill roofs are much lower then the average pub player in regular dogfighting. But the Gunships are another story, Ion Railgun makes them invincible.

If you do get the drop on the Gunship, and things get messy, he can simply pop you with a couple quick shots from their Ion Railgun. With no engine power, good luck catching up to that Gunship speeding away. And if you think you can eventually catch him, or that he can't run forever, no such luck, the Gunship can simply fly back to his capital ship while you are slowed or left without engine power. Laser cannons are out of the question now.

Which brings us to the core of the problem. Missiles won't work ether. Even if you get a lock on with a proton torpedo, did you know that Gunships are actually fast enough to out run it unless you lock on in 7500m>? Believe me, I tried. The only way to hit him at this range now is with the railgun. The only effective counter to their Ion railguns, is with railguns of our own. Which brings all the mechanics and rules of GSF crashing down.

Ion Railguns needs to be fixed, they shouldn't be able to drain power or slow you unless they are fully charged. I do not want go on GSF in the future, only to be forced into a GS role. For those who aren't having this kind of problem or don't agree? Great, I respect your opinion for now, but I think the ability to strip someone of their power and shields, is just too much. We will see how this plays out in the future as more people finish their trees. If Gunships do end up ruining GSF, they will no doubt get the Anti-matter powered Jackhammer of Nerf the devs are just aching to use.

[Currently people are bypassing natural progression with cartel coins, many have maxed talent trees. The focus of this thread is that a maxed Ion Railgun is too powerful. They can drain you of your engine, blaster and shield power in one shot, which chains to your nearby comrades. If you try to chase them, they can simply land some quick shots, taking away your power regeneration for 6s or slow you by 30%, ether one also leaving you with no booster. Allowing them to fly back to their spawn point. GS can out fly proton torpedoes, so the only effective countermeasures it to use railguns as well, which Kills the purpose of GSF. Ion rail guns needs a nerf, or at least require a full charge to apply the debuffs.]

The amount of disabling done by the ion railgun needs to be scaled based on how charged it is. A full charge should do the disabling, but a simple push and release pulse shouldn't do as much locking down as it currently can. To me those talents seem to have been designed around a fully charged shot, where they'd be fair. To disable that much even without charging is admittedly broken.

Exactly this.

[Currently people are bypassing natural progression with cartel coins, many have maxed talent trees. The focus of this thread is that a maxed Ion Railgun is too powerful. They can drain you of your engine, blaster and shield power in one shot, which chains to your nearby comrades. If you try to chase them, they can simply land some quick shots, taking away your power regeneration for 6s or slow you by 30%, ether one also leaving you with no booster. Allowing them to fly back to their spawn point. GS can out fly proton torpedoes, so the only effective countermeasures it to use railguns as well, which Kills the purpose of GSF. Ion rail guns needs a nerf, or at least require a full charge to apply the debuffs.]

Agreed, and also agree with the suggestion later in the thread to have full effect only take place on a fully charged shot. And in particular, the 6 seconds without regen is particularly nasty and may need to be looked at.

The whole redeeming factor of gunships is that a skilled player should still be able to react to the attack and get out of the way (or even engage the gunship). Any alternate weapon which leaves the target at the gunship's mercy (and if you're drained of engine energy and cannot regen it for 6 seconds, that is exactly the case) is bound to make gunships even more frustrating than they already are for most players, which I imagine is undesirable.

As a gunship pilot, I would have to say that the ion railgun's engine disabling abilities do border on gamebreaking with their current implementation, it's just hard to see how the ion railgun could be altered to make it as desirable to use as the others, since without the engine disabling ability, it's an underwhelming weapon.

I am more of less inclined to agree with you. The problem with ion railgun is that a slugger does so much damage that it stripts the shield away anyways. Ion rail gun would be useless if its only use is against shields. However we are trying to suggest that the debuff and chaining should only work if they took the time to fully charge it. Currently leaving the victim with no power and regeneration in less than 2 seconds is too overpowered.

I agree with the "Fully Charged" disabling effect, I've recently seen a influx of Ion Cannon GS within the past few days (Ebon Hawk). We have 2-3 GS camping in the background with a swarm of fighters. They disable us for the fighters to kill.

The fact they only need a quick shot to get the full effects is something that needs to be addressed.

Funny, it sounds like people would rather be dead in one shot than disabled. Both sound pretty game breaking to me.

Because it takes a fully charged shot to get instantly vaporized. Being disabled takes less than a second, and more importantly, you can't fight back.

As a gunship pilot, I would have to say that the ion railgun's engine disabling abilities do border on gamebreaking with their current implementation, it's just hard to see how the ion railgun could be altered to make it as desirable to use as the others, since without the engine disabling ability, it's an underwhelming weapon.

My theory concerning ion weapons, broken energy draining ability notwithstanding, is that they will become far more useful when bombers come into play. Those ships had MASSIVE shields, and having ion weapon that can quickly drain shields will definitely become very useful then.

Funny, it sounds like people would rather be dead in one shot than disabled. Both sound pretty game breaking to me.

Actually, both are just as broken. There shouldn't be one-shots... and if ion railguns disable you and leave you helpless there's very little difference, quite frankly. You may not be one-shotted, but all it does is prolong the inevitable.

And you can't even load regeneration gear, because it stops regeneration for 6 seconds (which is stunningly broken).

Gunships are extremely OP at the moment and will be until a balance pass is done to bring them in line with the other two ship types.

Having flown all three types I can easily see how strong GS's are, especially as you increase the mod levels. While the idea of a GS is a sound one, its implementation is extremely flawed. Trying to justify the GS's one shot ability with the tired excuse that "if a scout gets on me I'm toast" assumes that any scout or strike can close the 15k gap without getting one shot...

Railgun accuracy should degrade the closer the firer is to the target. Shooting a railgun should not instantly stop the ship...in my opinion the ship shouldn't stop at all but should instead go at the slowest speed...but should bring it to a stop in the same manner as the "Stop" command does in a slow deceleration to full stop. Non-full power shots should not do full secondary effects and with the railgun options available GS's should be required to use two of the three types which means that Ion's should not do hull damage and Slug should not do shield damage regardless of upgrades. Force GS's to use both secondaries to kill targets since they can do so from 3 times the range of anyone else.

Something will have to be done before GSF degrades into GS vs GS fights.

Even if you get a lock on with a proton torpedo, did you know that Gunships are actually fast enough to out run it unless you lock on in 7500m>? Believe me, I tried.

You are misinterpreting what you are experiencing. They are not outrunning the torpedo. If they didn't get hit it's because they used an evasive maneuver engine component, probably barrel roll.

Gunships are extremely OP at the moment and will be until a balance pass is done to bring them in line with the other two ship types.

There's also the question of what impact the new classes coming in February will have. If they do release some kind of stealth ship I can foresee that being the bane of gunships.

Gunships are extremely OP at the moment and will be until a balance pass is done to bring them in line with the other two ship types.

 

Having flown all three types I can easily see how strong GS's are, especially as you increase the mod levels. While the idea of a GS is a sound one, its implementation is extremely flawed. Trying to justify the GS's one shot ability with the tired excuse that "if a scout gets on me I'm toast" assumes that any scout or strike can close the 15k gap without getting one shot...

 

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Yes, I am assuming a scout or fighter can close the 15k gap. . . . Its extremely easy to do as long as you don't fly directly toward it.

Barrel roll, Boost, Parabolic Arcs =p . . .

Yes, I am assuming a scout or fighter can close the 15k gap. . . . Its extremely easy to do as long as you don't fly directly toward it.

 

Barrel roll, Boost, Parabolic Arcs =p . . .

Isn't as easy as it sounds since A) Dampening can make even finding the GS problematic and B) You can not tell what direction a GS is facing until you are on top of it.

Using cover, using boost, using evasive maneuvers...all good in theory but in practice it becomes much more complex...considering it is never just a two person fight.

So yeah, GS's beyond the basic mods are way OP at the moment and if EA/BW is tracking like they should we will see some modifications to the GS's at some point...unless they have decided that the next ship types will negate GS advantages in which case we should all just fly in GS's now and forget anything else until the next GSF update.

Yes, I am assuming a scout or fighter can close the 15k gap. . . . Its extremely easy to do as long as you don't fly directly toward it.

 

Barrel roll, Boost, Parabolic Arcs =p . . .

You do realize that your argument is PRECISELY what this thread is refuting, right? This isn't a generic "gunships are OP" thread, it's specifically about the ion railgun.

What does the ion railgun do? It makes it impossible to barrel roll or or boost by draining all engine energy, and doing it too well.

Fix the ion railgun, and yes, what you say is completely true. But the more gunship players realize how effective the ion railgun is, the worse it will become.

Isn't as easy as it sounds since A) Dampening can make even finding the GS problematic and B) You can not tell what direction a GS is facing until you are on top of it.

 

Using cover, using boost, using evasive maneuvers...all good in theory but in practice it becomes much more complex...considering it is never just a two person fight.

 

So yeah, GS's beyond the basic mods are way OP at the moment and if EA/BW is tracking like they should we will see some modifications to the GS's at some point...unless they have decided that the next ship types will negate GS advantages in which case we should all just fly in GS's now and forget anything else until the next GSF update.

As a scout, I just don't find it that difficult to close the gap. I rarely get hit by gunships at all, let alone one shot, and I kill several per match. It's all in how you play. I die far more often to strikes with upgraded protons lately.

Personally I'm finding gunships becoming a lot less frequent. As people play them and find out they just aren't as OP as people claim, they go back to flying strikes or scouts. Where it was rare to find a match with less than 4-5 gunships, and sometimes as high as 8, I now see most matches with 2-3 dedicated gunship pilots.

Not that I'm saying there can't be tweaks here and there. Ion railguns might need a tweak and I still believe Bypass needs a slight nerf as well, but neither are critical, and probably should wait until after more data is collected on mastered ship performance. Overnerfing should be a concern as well. The game is really well balanced, and changes should be gradual and minor.

You do realize that your argument is PRECISELY what this thread is refuting, right? This isn't a generic "gunships are OP" thread, it's specifically about the ion railgun.

 

What does the ion railgun do? It makes it impossible to barrel roll or or boost by draining all engine energy, and doing it too well.

 

Fix the ion railgun, and yes, what you say is completely true. But the more gunship players realize how effective the ion railgun is, the worse it will become.

Personally, when playing the gunship hunter role, I consider myself to have failed if I ever get hit by a gunship blast at all. I figure if I get hit, I've already lost, without regard to whether or not it was a one shot death, or soon will be a two shot death.

I can see a tweak to the ion gun regen disable duration, but it should not be overdone either.

The problem generally relates to teams of gunships rather than a single ship. An ion railgun on a single gunship is annoying but manageable. When it's two or more though as soon as you go to attack one the other will disable you and it's all over. You'd have to make some sort of coordinated attacking in a warzone, with little communication to even stand a chance and then their aoe ability comes into play.

The problem so far is a combination of factors, the first is the disabling effect, the second is the aoe, and the third is that gunships can manage to build for nearly infinite boost.

The real question for me would be is this truly overpowered or has an effective counter just not been devised.

Funny, it sounds like people would rather be dead in one shot than disabled. Both sound pretty game breaking to me.

The one shot requires a specific crew skill on a long cooldown or a crit, plus a fully charged slug railgun. Evasion also becomes a factor. Anyone paying attention should be able to quickly take out the gunship.

The problem generally relates to teams of gunships rather than a single ship. An ion railgun on a single gunship is annoying but manageable. When it's two or more though as soon as you go to attack one the other will disable you and it's all over. You'd have to make some sort of coordinated attacking in a warzone, with little communication to even stand a chance and then their aoe ability comes into play.

 

The problem so far is a combination of factors, the first is the disabling effect, the second is the aoe, and the third is that gunships can manage to build for nearly infinite boost.

 

The real question for me would be is this truly overpowered or has an effective counter just not been devised.

 

 

 

The one shot requires a specific crew skill on a long cooldown or a crit, plus a fully charged slug railgun. Evasion also becomes a factor. Anyone paying attention should be able to quickly take out the gunship.

Sorry, but the one-shot of some GS's does NOT require a long cooldown or, apparently, a crit. While boosting at a GS attacking a defended objective single handed I watched him kill 3 players defending the node in the time it took me to close the final 17k, and the only reason I could see him is someone dropped a sensor probe nearby.

You can't "pay attention" for a ship 12 to 15k away while simultaneously paying attention to the other ships nearby and/or trying to take out turrets. This is another one of those sad arguments people use to justify the one shot ability of a GS. Add in directional thrusters and even closing on a GS can mean death before your cannon and missiles can take it out.

It boils down to this: If any ship can take out any other ship in one shot, there is a balance issue. Too many think of gunships as snipers, where I see them as support ships. Their benefit should be in supporting the dog-fighters, not in completely destroying those ships. There is no place in a "dog fighting" sim for a one shot sniper ship.

Isn't as easy as it sounds since A) Dampening can make even finding the GS problematic and B) You can not tell what direction a GS is facing until you are on top of it.

 

Using cover, using boost, using evasive maneuvers...all good in theory but in practice it becomes much more complex...considering it is never just a two person fight.

 

So yeah, GS's beyond the basic mods are way OP at the moment and if EA/BW is tracking like they should we will see some modifications to the GS's at some point...unless they have decided that the next ship types will negate GS advantages in which case we should all just fly in GS's now and forget anything else until the next GSF update.

actually you can. If the Gunship is facing you or targeting you, the animation of the targeted ship faces forward

I hate this thread.

Before this there was only one gunship I have fought that knew how to use ion rail intelligently, but I'll bet by the end of the week every gunship and their mothers are going to be stacking ion rail.

Sorry, but the one-shot of some GS's does NOT require a long cooldown or, apparently, a crit. While boosting at a GS attacking a defended objective single handed I watched him kill 3 players defending the node in the time it took me to close the final 17k, and the only reason I could see him is someone dropped a sensor probe nearby.

You're simply not seeing something accurately. Even a scout at full shield/hull can only be one shot with bypass and a full charge. Even a strike fighter should be able to cover 17km in 7 seconds, and you should have it withing weapons range long before that. A scout will cover that distance in even less time. That's not enough time to fire 3 railgun shots. The problem is hardly anyone watches for gunships. That's why you see all these stories of them getting 20 or 30 kills, everyone just ignores them and complains about their kill count.