http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739827

We had an 11 page discussion on scouts vs gunships, starting from a 2-1 and going to a 2 on 2. Pay attention to where KuciWalker starts on the second page. The discussion has been had, and since the 2.6 nerfs, battle scouts certainly have the edge. Nova bolts aren't as much of a threat, but are still capable when they aren't fading.

Im inclined to disagree on the assessment of Jung Ma, right now the quality of pilots is probably the lowest of all the servers Ive been to.

We have a few really really good pilots and many bad ones, I usually get thrown against 3 of the good ones with 7 crap ones so I end up having to switch to my main and deal with the 3 good pilots on my own

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739827

(...)since the 2.6 nerfs, battle scouts certainly have the edge. Nova bolts aren't as much of a threat, but are still capable when they aren't fading.

And yet again, Can't see much 'OP scout teams' ingame, while GS walls are common why? People don't want to play the best ship in GSF?... Or maybe they just don't know that scouts are the best ships and constantly destroy them?

And yet again, Can't see much 'OP scout teams' ingame, while GS walls are common why? People don't want to play the best ship in GSF?... Or maybe they just don't know that scouts are the best ships and constantly destroy them?

Scrab, Tom, Nemarus, Moon-King, Drako, Tolgid, Lmeyya, Stacie vs. Me, alex, tsukuyomi, verain, xi'ao, phil, sriia, rhint.... Scouts win. (Note - using names I can recall at a moments notice. I bet you could swap players and still see the results the same)

Opportunity cost of missing for a gunship is huge deficit

Cost of barrel roll is more than a 3rd of the total engine power pool for gunships

Tracking penalties on rails is massive

Can't fire anywhere close to normal dps using lasers

Can't keep up with the acout's engine consumption rates and regen

Can't be as evasive

Can't be as mobile or agile

Have a 3x longer time to kill than a scout

.......

These are facts. The scout doesn't have component or engine issues. They aren't stationary when firing. The are the cause of my accuracy dipping from 80% to 60% even with wingman active. They can fly in a not straight line on approach and be missed 9/10 times. They have an accuracy buff, an evasion dispel / evasion buff, and a crit and magnitude buff up for 50% of the game time, in addition to having a copilot ability for more accuracy.

If I miss 1 shot on an approaching scout, i'm done. That's the biggest factor - missing for me means a lot more than missing for you

And yet again, Can't see much 'OP scout teams' ingame, while GS walls are common why?

Gunship walls are common because it's easier to set up, requires less coordination than a team of 8 scouts, and is pretty good at farming bad players. All very good reasons for pugs to gravitate towards that team composition. But at the same level of skill with the same coordination, 8 scouts will absolutely win over 8 gunships, every single time.

We are lucky to have such a well balanced game. The only time I feel like something is OP is when the other team has better players and I have to constantly fight 2-3 opponents at once.

I think a lot of people mistake balance issues with lopsided team issues.

We are lucky to have such a well balanced game. The only time I feel like something is OP is when the other team has better players and I have to constantly fight 2-3 opponents at once.

 

I think a lot of people mistake balance issues with lopsided team issues.

Was going to post something like the above as this debate heated up.

Also as devils advocate ive seen 8 gs crush 8 scouts, and the other way around. A lot of the "this beats that" argument makes me laugh since its all really up to skill and match balance. In a perfect world maybe 8 scouts beats 8 GS but in the real world the team with the better tactics wins regardless of ship composition. Sure some combos are more or less effective, but the match is usually determined before it even begins (most of the time)

Also wanted to point out that the ability of a GS to dominate is the ability to shoot and not miss. So if your in a match against 4 people in GS who can get 80% or higher accuracy, goodluck with whatever you bring heh.

(seen several matches where drak, stasie, verain, and jen ran trains on games with 4 GS against mixed teams, scout teams, or whatever else anyone tried - and this was before scouts got nerfed..... so it happens heh)

(seen several matches where drak, stasie, verain, and jen ran trains on games with 4 GS against mixed teams, scout teams, or whatever else anyone tried - and this was before scouts got nerfed..... so it happens heh)

Scouts got nerfed? Did i miss something?

Scouts got nerfed? Did i miss something?

referring to DF and BR nerfs, before that scouts were monstrous and nigh unkillable. So your correct, scouts were not singled out GS suffered just as much IMO (or more).

*Edit* Its also fair to point out that this was in the pre-nerf GS as well (with super ion rail) so the game was a tad different. these days im hard pressed to see 8 of anything fielded - I see mostly bomber GS combos with a scout or 2 salted in for flavoring.

I think my point is that skill trumps and any argument about what beats what has to assume equal skill (which rarely if ever happens, even on super serious night, there is always a stronger team and that team usually wins regardless of composition) IE its hard to tell whats more powerful when most battles are "subjective" to the skill of pilots on both sides.

Scrab, Tom, Nemarus, Moon-King, Drako, Tolgid, Lmeyya, Stacie vs. Me, alex, tsukuyomi, verain, xi'ao, phil, sriia, rhint.... Scouts win. (Note - using names I can recall at a moments notice. I bet you could swap players and still see the results the same)

 

Opportunity cost of missing for a gunship is huge deficit

 

Cost of barrel roll is more than a 3rd of the total engine power pool for gunships

 

Tracking penalties on rails is massive

 

Can't fire anywhere close to normal dps using lasers

 

Can't keep up with the acout's engine consumption rates and regen

 

Can't be as evasive

 

Can't be as mobile or agile

 

Have a 3x longer time to kill than a scout

 

.......

 

These are facts. The scout doesn't have component or engine issues. They aren't stationary when firing. The are the cause of my accuracy dipping from 80% to 60% even with wingman active. They can fly in a not straight line on approach and be missed 9/10 times. They have an accuracy buff, an evasion dispel / evasion buff, and a crit and magnitude buff up for 50% of the game time, in addition to having a copilot ability for more accuracy.

 

If I miss 1 shot on an approaching scout, i'm done. That's the biggest factor - missing for me means a lot more than missing for you

At high levels of play, absolutely, 8 Scouts will beat 8 GS. But I disagree about lower levels of play.

Even with average players, without voice, I think 8 GS will pretty reliably defeat 8 Scouts. If you add in voice with average pilots, I think the 8 Scouts would have an edge. The Scouts just need so much more coordination that average players will need voice (highly skilled players might be able to figure out what they need to do independently w/out voice) to counter a GS wall. But in PUGs, you don't have voice, and you are lucky to get "average" players. In those situations, the GS wall has an advantage because it takes much less coordination to set up. That is why GS walls are so frustrating for PUGs.