It seems to me people only want rdps and people with self cleanses in their ops groups, the only guilds I see willing to invite mdps are social ones who will never set foot near a nightmare op and probably struggle with the HM's.

 

Is playing my main sentinel futile? Shall I just gear my sniper, sorc or commando to the same level instead?

Short Answer: Yes.

 

Longer Answer: Yes. EA cares little for the pure dps melee classes. Ranged can do the same, if not better dps than any melee class. Being able to attack from 30/35m allows them to, on most (not all) encounters, ignore mechanics.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Bugattiboy

Well, minor consolation, if their healers are so terrible that they cant handle cleansing more than themselves and maybe a tank, you dont want to be raiding with them anyway...

 

That being said, bioware does have an unfortunate tendency to make their boss fights unfriendly to melee, which is strange considering one of the primary draws for this game is the whole "You can be a Jedi! Just like in the movies!" And, in the movies, all Jedi are completely melee.....

 

But then, its not like they have ever showed an overabundance of common sense.

MDPS are valued, but the problem is you can reach a point of "too many" very quickly, where as you never have too many ranged.

 

In an 8 man comp - 1 melee 3 ranged is the ideal min/max setup.

2 melee, 2 ranged can also be very strong.

Going over 2 melee can be detrimental.

 

Our guild raids 16 mans and our comp is currently somewhat melee heavy by circumtance. We're running 4 melee and 6 ranged. Would we have an easier time on some fights if we trimmed the melee down a person or two? Probably, but its not a huge deal.

 

And yes we do Nightmare progression (5/5 NiM TFB, 5/7 NiM S&V, 2/5 NiM Fortress sofar)

 

The self cleanse thing is huge in some fights. Having a team that can self-cleanse on NiM Nefra simply trivilizes that dot mechanics for example. Same goes for Draxus and his Corrosive Grenade. Ballistic shield from snipers adds so much utility on top of their stellar numbers.

 

Now, our smashdot mara and Vengeance Jugg are our highest parcing DPS, but they're trading a great deal of raid utility in the process, so that's why its important to find a good balance.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Terro_Fett

It seems to me people only want rdps and people with self cleanses in their ops groups, the only guilds I see willing to invite mdps are social ones who will never set foot near a nightmare op and probably struggle with the HM's.

 

Is playing my main sentinel futile? Shall I just gear my sniper, sorc or commando to the same level instead?

 

I think you know the answer(s) to these sort of issues already:

 

I don't know if you're referring to HM DF/DP or NiM mode, so I'll keep it general.

 

a. Self-Cleanses are an incredibly convenient ability in DF/DP. Especially for Nefra and Tyran's DeathMark, especially if your off to the side kiting Raptus. When we first started HM Nefra (now NiM Nefra), our group had 2 tanks and 2 DPS that could not cleanse themselves. Those DoTs, if they tick for 9sec (3rd on a healer cleanse priority) do a good amount of damage, if you cannot mitigate some of it with a DCD. Being able to have any DPS cleanse themselves makes things easier to heal through (in principle) and gives more up-time for actual healing.

 

Conclusion: Self cleanses are great utility, extremely handy while progressing, but not necessary to an experienced and well-oiled raid group. Although on my VG I wish I had a cleanse for deathmark skulls and Nefra DoTs.

 

Resilience is so good in DF/DP though.

 

b.Ranged generally are able to avoid more damage. But I think melee do have some role in DF/DP (Calphayus on Council, Tyrans, etc.) It's just easier to stack ranged on heals and forget about it. Hard to change this meta without adding more "Ranged Only" type AoE damage.

 

Customary every class is more than fine for HM DP/DF at this point. Take the player, not the class. But ranged and self-cleanses are really useful "crutches" to cover some inefficiencies elsewhere in the group.

It seems to me people only want rdps and people with self cleanses in their ops groups, the only guilds I see willing to invite mdps are social ones who will never set foot near a nightmare op and probably struggle with the HM's.

 

Is playing my main sentinel futile? Shall I just gear my sniper, sorc or commando to the same level instead?

 

While things can be a bit easier with more, or all, ranged DPS, the actual answer to this question is "absolutely not."

 

This is purely a talent issue. All classes are completely viable in all content. Stacking an excessive amount of anything can make things harder, but not impossible. Here are some recent examples of content that I have cleared with my guild and talented nightmare-level PUGs.

• DP HM/8 Dread Council - Five people could not self-cleanse in the group and no off-cleansers were available. The healers took care of all four deathmarks on the tanks and DPS multiple times in that fight.
  
• DF NM/8 Nefra - Only two self-cleansing DPS (every other time) and no off-cleansers were in the group. The healers were each responsible for three or four cleanses every time the DoT came out.
  
• DF NM/8 Draxus - Three melee DPS.
  

 

Looking at just the most recent example of a "road bump" fight for a lot of guilds, nightmare Draxus, melee DPS are actually at an advantage in that fight.

• Bulwarks force you to be within four meters of your target to be able to damage it, so ranged DPS must initially be within melee distance of most adds in that fight.
  
• Juggernaughts, marauders, operatives and powertechs all have excellent AoE specs and I have seen 3,000+ DPS from these melee classes in this fight. The adds are often grouped in sets of three.
  
• No ranged DPS can taunt. The final phase of Draxus is a joke with triple powertechs (1 tank, 2 DPS) as you now have three "tanks" with taunts to split the boss and the two Guardians between them. Every Guardian Slam and Thundering Blast is totally controlled.
  

 

Two melee DPS in an eight-man team is always viable for all content. Assuming you can play your melee class up to a nightmare-level standard, the weakness is not with you, it's with the people rejecting you.

As said before, there is a problem if you have too many mDPS, so if you are asked to reroll or considering it yourself maybe you should first focus on becoming better as mDPS? There will always be a demand for mDPS in Ops groups and if you play better than the others competing for the same spot you will continue playing the class you like, in this case, sentinel

TBH being range can be easier in some fights, but most HM/NiM groups take the player and not the class. Also just like others have said too much of everything is the problem not melee itself. Sentinels have the pros and cons just like any other class, they may not be able to cleanse themselves but they put out good number in all boss fights and specs like focus really shine in Draxus/CZ. Also things like inspiration may not add much to overall dps for a fight, but it comes in handy in burn down phases (Like brontes NiM)

I will never give up my Sentinel, never, but ranged really is much easier for an ops group. I want at least one sent if possible because transendence is beastly and inspiration can make a check easier. An off taunt can be extremely useful as well thinking back to NiM EC as well NiM Brontes. Having said that, ranged is just much easier on the vast majority of fights, but a great melee player is worth bringing. If you know the class inside and out and have a great DPS output you'll be fine with melee.

My raid group killed NiM Brontes with 3 Melee, one Ranged. Is it easier with ranged? Absolutely, but if you're good enough on your melee don't let anyone tell you you have to reroll for the good of the group. That's complete BS. Any content in this game can be cleared with any group comp. Just takes more skill to do so.

Like it was posted before in the thread you can have "too many melee", but no so for ranged. Pretty much until it's possible to have "too many ranged" they'll always defeat melee.

There will always be a demand for Inspiration in Ops groups

FTFY, but even that's not true. Remember when people we just stacking nothing but gunslingers?

Edited May 1, 2014 by Bugattiboy

My raid group killed NiM Brontes with 3 Melee, one Ranged. Is it easier with ranged? Absolutely, but if you're good enough on your melee don't let anyone tell you you have to reroll for the good of the group. That's complete BS. Any content in this game can be cleared with any group comp. Just takes more skill to do so.

 

Nobodies telling me nothing however now I can't seem to get past the guild advertisement stage let alone apply.

 

Everyone seems to want ranged and not melee, either that's a huge coincidence that a lot of groups are lacking ranged or people are trying to stack ranged in their favour for certain fights.

Nobodies telling me nothing however now I can't seem to get past the guild advertisement stage let alone apply.

 

Everyone seems to want ranged and not melee, either that's a huge coincidence that a lot of groups are lacking ranged or people are trying to stack ranged in their favour for certain fights.

 

It's not a coincidence.

 

If you look at things purely in black-and-white, ranged make aspects of the current content easier. As long as there are things that need to be cleansed, having a self cleanse will be a nice luxury. As will not eating boss AoE by default and the increased up-time on the boss if/when positioning goes awry (Tyrans/Raptus)

 

Yes, there is a place for melee in the current tier, but 4 Ranged is currently easier to manage than 4 Melee. If people looking to fill spots are only looking for rDPS, they are either still not one-shotting the content regularly or they believe (sort of right sort of wrong) a barely competent rDPS will be less of liability (without knowing the player's capabilities) than the same person as a melee DPS.

Edited May 1, 2014 by JMagee

Any content in this game can be cleared with any group comp. Just takes more skill to do so.

 

Well Nefra NiM with 6 people who can't cleanse would be a bit extreme (not sure if doable tbh, if you just have one DPS with cleanse he will more or less cleanse on cooldown in this fight). Same goes for NiM Dreadguards with 4 melee....

Well Nefra NiM with 6 people who can't cleanse would be a bit extreme (not sure if doable tbh, if you just have one DPS with cleanse he will more or less cleanse on cooldown in this fight). Same goes for NiM Dreadguards with 4 melee....

 

DPS-operatives are melee too (and the best in game!) and have cleanses AND a 1min-cd self-cleanse. 8)

I dunno. I've known some truly spectacular melee dps that will always have a spot in our progression runs.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the situation is most players starting the game wanting to play a Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior simply because it's cool. Resulting in a larger ratio of poor-to-mediocre melee players when building pugs.

 

It's gotta mean something that most all of the successful 2-manned operations are melee. And it's not like the world-first-progression-guilds only run ranged.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Khevar

While there is certainly a bias against having too many melee in a raid, I think the issue lies more in the relative overabundance of melee characters in SWTOR for whatever reason.

 

Obviously this is circumstantial, but I've never ever been in a raid group in 7 guilds that didn't have a Sentinel/Mara in it (and often two, in 8m). I also can't think of anyone in my last few groups who also didn't either have a Sentinel/Mara or Op/Scoundrel alt that they didn't bring out for alt runs or otherwise campaign at some point to bring. The issue was always that there were preexisting melee in groups or folks who were just plain better at melee and it was preferred that newer members have a ranged for the sake of diversity and ease of mechanics.

 

While Sents/Maras may be viewed to relatively have a little less raid utility or do a little less damage than some classes now after a number of nerfs and buffs to other classes (relatively, being the key word--all 4 specs can be extremely effective in different situations) they have been pretty desirable to have in ops groups since day one. So I suspect the issue that some may be running into with trying to get their melee into a raid is that almost everyone has one that they want to play and more senior, proven, or higher DPSing players are getting spots in raids, while I see most guilds recruiting ranged to fill out newer spots instead. In my experience is certainly easier to integrate a fresh ranged player into your raid group than to teach a new melee, while ranged often bring needed utility to a raid (that final puzzle piece) that melee may or may not have.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Mugen_no_Jidai

We recently did a 16M with only one ranged. That was interesting to say the least. We actually do have a fairly decent number of melee in our HMs some weeks. There are advantages and disadvantages.

 

Pros:

AoE heals are easy to place. Bosses like Nefra and Grob'thok are easy to stay on, though someone like a Pyro Merc can pretty much do the same while remaining mobile. Easier to group adds up, faster cooldown on interrupts, better defensive cooldowns in general, group utility like Bloodthirst and dirty rezzes.

 

Cons:

Extra damage taken from incidentals like the subteroths, additional issue of being caught inside anti-grav field, AoE stuns, having to work around things like Inferno and still maintaining damage, the circles and AoE on bosses like the Eyeless, having to move around the room for things like the clock phase of Brontes when ranged can maintain their damage more easily.

 

Groups that are only worried only about clearing the content just to do so and not about playing with a group that works well together aren't going to be too enjoyable anyway.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Prototypemind

DPS-operatives are melee too (and the best in game!) and have cleanses AND a 1min-cd self-cleanse. 8)

 

Of course and I really like to have ops/scoundrels in my group. In progression group I run with rather awesome one! His burst caused my headache as tank more then once