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Rage Juggernaut : Alacrity trick also viable ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Rage Juggernaut : Alacrity trick also viable ?

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
10.05.2017 , 12:10 PM | #1
Hey there, just wanted to ask a quick question for peoples who would eventually have tried it.

In case you don't know, there is a trick for Fury Marauder which, for what I understand, increase greatly its DPS by simply using the way the GCD is made. GCD actually works in a very stupid manner, it rounds up to the upper .1sec

This means that if you have an alacrity that in theory up your GCD at 1.32sec, the game will actually round it up to 1.4sec. The trick with Fury Marauder consist to increase your alacrity somewhere around 1850, to make your GCD go to 1.3sec, allowing you to simply execute your rotation faster, gaining a "bonus" ability every 13 GCD instead of every 14, the auto-crit and bonus surge gained with the spec allowing you to basically still throw out bigger numbers than other spec even with lesser crit chances.

The result can be seen on Parses like this one, where Fury hits for more than 10k5 DPS (who would have thought ! )

I was wondering if any Rage Jugg players here have tried it, to see if it could be usefull to invest in some alacrity enhancement.
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

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DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
10.05.2017 , 12:24 PM | #2
I don't have an answer to any of that, but since reading that thread about alacrity I have went back and basically put all my dps toons at 1900 or so alacrity. Even my skank tank is 1900 alacrity and I absolutely love it. I was one of those "just stop at around 1300" or so players, but at 1900 my GCD is moving fast and I've noticed a difference.

I also run the crit relic , abit more controversial but I think its better then the power relic, no hard proof to back that up, but I noticed during ops my dps seems way more sustained, and in pvp the burst when the crit relic procs is pretty damn good.

All observational points. Just my 2 cents.
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supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
10.05.2017 , 12:27 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by DenariusJay View Post
I don't have an answer to any of that, but since reading that thread about alacrity I have went back and basically put all my dps toons at 1900 or so alacrity. Even my skank tank is 1900 alacrity and I absolutely love it. I was one of those "just stop at around 1300" or so players, but at 1900 my GCD is moving fast and I've noticed a difference.

I also run the crit relic , abit more controversial but I think its better then the power relic, no hard proof to back that up, but I noticed during ops my dps seems way more sustained, and in pvp the burst when the crit relic procs is pretty damn good.

All observational points. Just my 2 cents.
Observational points indeed, but every observation is usefull when we don't know much about this.

I was wondering also about the relics, if maybe a crit + power duo could work better with this setup than a Mastery + Power duo... You're using Crit + Mastery ?
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DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
10.05.2017 , 12:55 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
Observational points indeed, but every observation is usefull when we don't know much about this.

I was wondering also about the relics, if maybe a crit + power duo could work better with this setup than a Mastery + Power duo... You're using Crit + Mastery ?
Yeah, Mastery gives some power + crit, so I think its definitely the best bang for your buck type of relic. Crit relic adds about 5%'ish to your surge and crit chance when it procs, with crit %'s being so high nowadays, your bound to crit during its 6 second duration.

I read awhile back in various threads that power only ups your RNG range for base damage, whereas Surge increase from crit is guaranteed damage. That extra 5% surge you get from the crit proc could be more then what you get from the power proc. Assuming you crit during that window ofc, lol. Overall the difference are hard to pin down, I suppose the only way to get a definitive answer as to what is best is to do like 50 dummy parses of each and see what you average out too. But even that can be skewed due to the RNG element of crits.
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Alec_Fortescue's Avatar


Alec_Fortescue
10.10.2017 , 07:18 PM | #5
Some talk / direct me to the said alacrity trick.

AronisContar's Avatar


AronisContar
10.12.2017 , 10:02 AM | #6
I don't have a link to the discussion OP is referring to, but it's simple to test, so I did just that.

Beating on the dummy naked, default attack, I get exactly 40 APM.

I then started adding back gear with alacrity, which (strangely enough) at first increased my APM to ~40.5, but then stopped increasing it further until I pushed my alacrity over ~7.14%, which reduced my GCD to below 1.4 (I used the cast time on Force Stasis to double check this, since it has 1.5 cast time by default). This increased my APM to ~43.

Adding further alacrity gear again does nothing until you push it over about 15.39%, which reduces the GCD to below 1.3 - this increased my APM to about 46. IIRC this was at about 1880 alacrity rating, give or take a few.

For the tests I always spam-attacked the dummy for two minutes.

I then also checked the end result by whacking a 2.5 Mio HP dummy several times. Now if this is actually beneficial - at least for me it isn't, it lowered my DPS by a bit. You swing like a mad man, but the attacks are quite a bit weaker because of the missing crit. But maybe I just suck.

Since I was already messing around, I then tried going the opposite way, removing alacrity augments until I was at 1.39 GCD, and instead sticking mastery augments in. This actually increased my DPS a bit, but felt a bit lame overall... cooldowns on all abilities were pretty long.

The baseline I compared this to was with my default equipment, which has about 1.33 GCD.

Ciao, Aronis!

HanSollo's Avatar


HanSollo
10.16.2017 , 08:20 AM | #7
I thought it was common knowledge that stacking alacrity on auto crit specs was viable. Mostly because you can squeeze in an extra crit at one point or another and that more then makes up for the damage lost on the other abilities.

For the record this works for any build that has auto crits in its rotation AFAIK.

To the guy that tested this. Your going to see a slight drop in DPS until you reach the point where your able to net an additional auto crit at which point you will have a huge DPS increase. This is due to the fact that for the majority of the time your removing damage from abilities and not seeing a payoff else where until you get that extra attack in. Which causes a slow damage decline with the occasional spike in damage because your not getting the extra attack until you break that .01 point.

Cruzqt's Avatar


Cruzqt
10.16.2017 , 07:25 PM | #8
Id love to see some parses or especially PvP Experience concerning this.

So far i stack 85% critdmg softcap, 10% alacrity, dump rest in power for PvP and it works fine for me. Though i always hope for this one secret trick that would turn Rage finally into the Killing Machine it deserves to be.
It's a strong spec dont get me wrong, but sometimes the effort you have to put in to do well compared to other classes / specs just makes it very apparent that Bioware really doesnt have much love for Rage.
Mopping for a better future since 1990.

Ansultares's Avatar


Ansultares
10.16.2017 , 10:13 PM | #9
I've tried testing this theory in regards to GCD and alacrity, but without tracking APM I can only say it seems like it makes no real difference. I play rage for big hits anyway, and alacrity doesn't really fit into that. I just want that issue resolved where Furious Strike whiffs with no flytext displayed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cruzqt View Post
Bioware really doesnt have much love for Rage.
Seems alot of players, including some (past) devs, never got over the butthurt of early smash.
Snare

winky's Avatar


winky
10.18.2017 , 01:38 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Cruzqt View Post
Id love to see some parses or especially PvP Experience concerning this.

So far i stack 85% critdmg softcap, 10% alacrity, dump rest in power for PvP and it works fine for me. Though i always hope for this one secret trick that would turn Rage finally into the Killing Machine it deserves to be.
It's a strong spec dont get me wrong, but sometimes the effort you have to put in to do well compared to other classes / specs just makes it very apparent that Bioware really doesnt have much love for Rage.
Ki'Su'Tchan

Vengeance: 10270.9 DPS (Edit: link to parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/323222/0)
Rage: 9852.14 DPS (Edit: link to parse http://parsely.io/parser/view/323235/0)

7599 Mastery
3964 Power
1891 Critical
789 Alacrity
759 Acc

According tohttp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=933260&page=4, which i have confirmed with my internal parsing, go for either 7.15% or 15.39% alacrity bonus. The rest will not have other effect than wasted stats.

I received ~200 DPS increase from lowering alac from 1500 to 789 and take Mastery augments instead. I preferred the lower alacrity due to higher hits, which are beneficial in PvP as well. The 15.39% is ~ 1890 alacrity, which hinders your high hitters a lot (EDIT: But increases your PvE DPS), which I personally do not like in PvP (especialy considering the slimy healers always trying to run away from you).