*This is all from a PvP perspective*

 

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

 

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility. They can also taunt without being in their defensive stance, which one AoE taunt can mean three free medals. The majority of their abilities are instant as well, hitting far harder than any channeled or cast time ability (again, makes no sense) I'm a little confused why these classes seem so much better in nearly every aspect than others.

 

When i look at classes like snipers and sorcs, which are capable of a lot, i notice it comes with a price. A sorc or sniper will go down extremely quickly when focused, but these other ones will not. There appears to be no trade off to the insane amount of damage, utility, crowd control, and tankiness they have. If there is, please enlighten me.

 

Since these types of threads are usually met with hostile responses, i'll state that i play a pyrotech mercenary. I'm not the best, but i'm certainly not the worst. Full WH gear. I cannot tank anything, i have one stun (the missle is on a two sec cast time, so only useful when the instant cast ability is up), and my two hardest hitting abilities both critting dont add up to a single smash.

 

Help? Am i doing it wrong? Did i pick the wrong class? Am i missing something? Thanks!

You picked the wrong class, and ya ur right those 3 classes have the most cc and can put out crazy burst while having moderate/high defensive cooldowns:( meh if u cant beat them join em

I think the situation is very clear:

PvP and WZs suffer under god-like tanks because BW wants to make tank speccs more popular. Nobody speccs tank for PvE if a respecc is required each time he wants to do some PvP. BW's answer to this is to make tanks speccs viable for PvP too. Problem here is that they exaggerated a little. Tanks in PvP are not only very difficult to kill, they also have an insane DPS output and very high utility. But Rome wasn't built in a day and I'm hoping that this will be fixed soon.

I think the issue is that you (and others) misunderstand the strength of these various classes. I have 12 characters and have played every advanced class in the game (though not every single faction mirror), most of them in level 50 warzones and 3 of them (Assassin, Guardian, Sniper) in ranked warzones.

 

From both my experience playing these classes and facing these classes, I can assure you that Snipers and Sorcerers hit significantly harder than Assassin or Jugg tanks, and that Powertechs are glass cannons which melt as easily as sorcs (more easily, even) under focus.

 

Yes, Assassins in DPS gear can do strong DPS, but they should always fall far behind a sniper, powertech, marauder, or even a DPS specced shadow in both the final damage chart as well as single target burst, so long as they are played by decent players. Yes, Powertechs have some decent crowd control, but they're probably the squishiest DPS class in the game.

 

It's easy to see the strengths of other classes and overvalue them, or to miss their weaknesses when their strengths are so alluring. In the end, the balance of this game is among the best I've seen. There are a few things that could be tweaked here or there, but as a whole it's really quite remarkable how solid it is.

*This is all from a PvP perspective*

 

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

 

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility. They can also taunt without being in their defensive stance, which one AoE taunt can mean three free medals. The majority of their abilities are instant as well, hitting far harder than any channeled or cast time ability (again, makes no sense) I'm a little confused why these classes seem so much better in nearly every aspect than others.

 

When i look at classes like snipers and sorcs, which are capable of a lot, i notice it comes with a price. A sorc or sniper will go down extremely quickly when focused, but these other ones will not. There appears to be no trade off to the insane amount of damage, utility, crowd control, and tankiness they have. If there is, please enlighten me.

 

Since these types of threads are usually met with hostile responses, i'll state that i play a pyrotech mercenary. I'm not the best, but i'm certainly not the worst. Full WH gear. I cannot tank anything, i have one stun (the missle is on a two sec cast time, so only useful when the instant cast ability is up), and my two hardest hitting abilities both critting dont add up to a single smash.

 

Help? Am i doing it wrong? Did i pick the wrong class? Am i missing something? Thanks!

 

Snipers,Sorcs and even Pyro mercenaries are all range DPS meaning that they can Dmg people from 30m away and that is the reason that they lack a bit in close quarters combat.If they left alone they can do enormous amounts of Dmg even your Pyro mercenary.They trick is to learn to postition yourself to the right spot and be mobile all they time.

 

Tactical positioning is your advantage against any other class but don't think that this is something easy to achieve.It reguires experience and lots of WZs.In time your instincts will prevail and they will lead you to the right positions so you can be one of the most dangerous DPS of your team.

*This is all from a PvP perspective*

 

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

 

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility. They can also taunt without being in their defensive stance, which one AoE taunt can mean three free medals. The majority of their abilities are instant as well, hitting far harder than any channeled or cast time ability (again, makes no sense) I'm a little confused why these classes seem so much better in nearly every aspect than others.

 

When i look at classes like snipers and sorcs, which are capable of a lot, i notice it comes with a price. A sorc or sniper will go down extremely quickly when focused, but these other ones will not. There appears to be no trade off to the insane amount of damage, utility, crowd control, and tankiness they have. If there is, please enlighten me.

 

Since these types of threads are usually met with hostile responses, i'll state that i play a pyrotech mercenary. I'm not the best, but i'm certainly not the worst. Full WH gear. I cannot tank anything, i have one stun (the missle is on a two sec cast time, so only useful when the instant cast ability is up), and my two hardest hitting abilities both critting dont add up to a single smash.

 

Help? Am i doing it wrong? Did i pick the wrong class? Am i missing something? Thanks!

 

Honestly this is because BW is kinda bass ackwards on class balance at the moment. Sadly because these classes have been allowed to remain FOTM for several months now, majority of people play them. I can honestly say now a days I feel like most Wz's are filled with mainly Smashers, bubblestunners, and Vanguards/PT's.

 

And you are also right that so many posts on this forum are all the standard "I play X number of classes and I KNOW none of these classes are OP" or "I play this class and I own all the time, you need to L2P". None of these posts really offer any constructive thoughts or criticism, they are just there because people like to boost their own ego.

 

Truth is BW needs to adjust class balance and they should have done it awhile ago, but they have gotten caught up with F2P, cartel market and the Gree event. So we are left waiting till the expansion in hopes that will correct some of these issues.

Did someone say PTs have lots of cc and high defensives and survivabity?

I think the situation is very clear:

PvP and WZs suffer under god-like tanks because BW wants to make tank speccs more popular. Nobody speccs tank for PvE if a respecc is required each time he wants to do some PvP. BW's answer to this is to make tanks speccs viable for PvP too. Problem here is that they exaggerated a little. Tanks in PvP are not only very difficult to kill, they also have an insane DPS output and very high utility. But Rome wasn't built in a day and I'm hoping that this will be fixed soon.

 

Are you on crack? Seriously? Insane DPS as a tank....lololololol. Very difficult to kill..lololol. DPS can use the same taunts i can, and A tank gives up about 80% of its damage to get about 10% more survivability over the same class dps, in my case bounty hunter. Bioware seems to care less if anyone plays a tank, look no further than these very boards to see the host of tank/pvp threads, and how there are no true tanks left in pvp. because the damage/survivability tradeoffs are so wacked.

SWTOR has fundamental problems in game design. The biggest problem: all classes / abilities are planned to PvE environment. For example in PvE there are no problems with the tons of CC abilities - in fact these abilities are mandatory to a succesfull hard FP or ops. PvE requires these abilities. However these abilities are ruining PvP.

 

Bioware never really designed well or tested the abilities in PvP - they though: "everything working fine in PvE it will be OK in PvP". Hell, no.

 

Optimizing and balancing PVP requires a global overhaul - and this will not gonna happen.

Did someone say PTs have lots of cc and high defensives and survivabity?

 

Yep.

 

I'm sitting her wondering wondering what abilities I missed. My pyro has a bubble shield, a stun that every class save knights/warriors get and later will get that 2 second mez...yay?

*This is all from a PvP perspective*

 

Right to it then. I may be missing something so if i am someone please explain:

 

It seems that the classes that do the most damage and consistently hit the hardest(Jugg, Powertech, Sins (and all their republic counterparts)) also happen to have an absurd amount of crowd control (moreso than most classes), are also very tanky with strong defensive cooldowns, and also have great utility.

 

But Powertech really weak without dps and dont have an absurd amount of CC...

ok assassins yes, but juggs and pts dont have alot of stuns at all.

 

Every smuggler and Agent AC has more stuns and cc

 

Sorcs and sages have more cc.

 

Warriors and bounty hunters have the least cc.

 

invalid.

The only classes that are tough to kill when focused is one that is being healed.

 

So kill that healer first and then you will see these other ones will go down as well.

 

The exception to this is a smuggler/op healer. They can be tough to bring down.

Edited February 18, 2013 by sphyg

Something I've never understood...

 

 

 

Something I've never understood...

 

 

Why do hot dogs come in packages of 12, but hot dog buns come in packages of 8?

 

It's so you have to eat 48 hot dogs at a time.

 

A source in Bioware told me that they are behind it. Their plan is that America's obesity epidemic continues to expand in hot-dog-fuelled insanity, such that soon everyone will be so enormously overweight that all they can do is slump at home the whole day and buy cartel coins to play SWTOR.

 

The cunning swine.

 

And I bet you eat premade hotdogs and just don't care.

 

edit: I may be about to leave work for the day and a little stir crazy.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Wainamoinen

It's so you have to eat 48 hot dogs at a time.

 

A source in Bioware told me that they are behind it. Their plan is that America's obesity epidemic continues to expand in hot-dog-fuelled insanity, such that soon everyone will be so enormously overweight that all they can do is slump at home the whole day and buy cartel coins to play SWTOR.

 

The cunning swine.

 

And I bet you eat premade hotdogs and just don't care.

 

So.... working as intended?

It's so you have to eat 48 hot dogs at a time.

.

Actually 24 is the magic number you are looking for.

short answer to your question (that you didn't ask, see what I did there?) is that you are wrong but in an understandable way - it just seems that the tanky classes get all the toys.

 

sniper & marauder are, along with powertech, the best dps classes in the game. only the powertech is a hybrid class, and their tank spec is relatively bad. so they're like a pure dps class anyway. that's why they have all their cc, though: they're a tankable class.

 

the real question you ought to be asking is why are pure dps and tank/dps hybrid classes so much better dpsers than healing/dps dpsers. the answer is that BW seems to think the utility of a cleanse and offhealing are relatively equivalent to - or better than! (/facepalm) - the utility of taunts and pulls/leaps. they are not. dpsers who cleanse have minor utility. offhealing is a complete waste of time. you'd help your buddy more by killing the guy attacking him.

 

tank classes tend to have more stun CCs (bubble stun aside). ranged classes tend to have more escape abils (roots/mezzes) - once again, bubble stun aside, which actually was a mezz until the latest re-balancing?.

 

edit: the only anomaly I can think of is maras having a slew of dcds (most of which ppl don't use). but they also lack the traditonal stuns that you would find on other classes.

Edited February 18, 2013 by foxmob

Powertechs are glass cannons and their cc isn't spectacularly better than anyone else's.

People talk about juggs being tanky, but for dps juggs this isn't the case. A dps jugg dies just as fast if not faster than any other dps class out there. Tired of being smashed? Hit the jug with focus fire from 2 people and he'll die in seconds.

Jugg tanks are obviously tanky, they are tanks.

Sins have crappy tanking, average dps, and lots of cc/utility.

 

Additionally, all these classes have to be right up in people's faces to do the majority of their damage, which usually means they're the first to die. Sorcs and snipers don't. And sorcs have bubblestun.

 

This is all pretty balanced when you take out the fact that smash/bubblestun is broke as ****, which everyone is well aware of.

Edited February 18, 2013 by JP_Legatus

Yes, Powertechs are Gods.

 

Kneel before me.

short answer to your question (that you didn't ask, see what I did there?) is that you are wrong but in an understandable way - it just seems that the tanky classes get all the toys.

 

sniper & marauder are, along with powertech, the best dps classes in the game. only the powertech is a hybrid class, and their tank spec is relatively bad. so they're like a pure dps class anyway. that's why they have all their cc, though: they're a tankable class.

 

the real question you ought to be asking is why are pure dps and tank/dps hybrid classes so much better dpsers than healing/dps dpsers. the answer is that BW seems to think the utility of a cleanse and offhealing are relatively equivalent to - or better than! (/facepalm) - the utility of taunts and pulls/leaps. they are not. dpsers who cleanse have minor utility. offhealing is a complete waste of time. you'd help your buddy more by killing the guy attacking him.

 

tank classes tend to have more stun CCs (bubble stun aside). ranged classes tend to have more escape abils (roots/mezzes) - once again, bubble stun aside, which actually was a mezz until the latest re-balancing?.

 

edit: the only anomaly I can think of is maras having a slew of dcds (most of which ppl don't use). but they also lack the traditonal stuns that you would find on other classes.

 

This man knows what he is talking about,,,,5 stars.

Did someone say PTs have lots of cc and high defensives and survivabity?

 

aoe stun, 4s stun, grapple. that's a lot of native cc. however, they have poor defenses.

I play a Jedi Shadow, have since I first started, never played anything else, currently Infiltrator Specced, though usually Balance.

 

First, the DPS I do isn't that great, sure I pretty much suck as I'm rather new, and I go for objectives but still, comparing it with a few others like marauder/sentinel, they'll out dps me no problem.

Second, I have 3, or 4 defensive CD's:

Deflection: 12 second duration, 2 minute CD.

Blackout (Specced into): 25% damage reduction for 6 seconds, 45 Sec CD, If specced for it

Resilience: 1 Min CD, 3 Second Duration, removes hostile effects and you're immune to all of it during those 3 seconds.

Force Cloak: 2 min CD, 1 min and 30 seconds if specced into it, and unless specced into it your healing recieved is reduced by 100%.

 

That's all defensive cooldown I have at my disposal, on paper they sound great, but in a WZ, while they help, if you're focused as a DPS specced shadow, you'll go down, and fast, and they all have a pretty long CD, Blackout and Resilience being the exceptions.

 

Crowd Control, Imo a bit too many, I'm used to having 3, now I have 5, 6 if I count slows (7 with telekinetic throw)

 

Mind Maze: Your Sap that I think every stealth assassin type class has in every game, must be used in stealth, breaks on damage, last for I think 6 seconds on players.

Spinning Kick: 30 Sec CD, knocks down for 2 seconds, has to be used in stealth unless specced into Stasis which is in the defense tree.

Low Slash: 15 second CD, 4 second sap, pretty much like Mind Maze, though less duration and can be used outside stealth, also breaks on damage.

Force Lift: 60 second CD, 2 sec activation time, breaks on damage, if specced into (Balance Tree) it's instant and a 2 second stun if effect is broken prematurely, but it's high up in the tree.

Force Stun: 60 Second CD, 50 second CD if specced into, 4 second stun.

 

Also a slow but only gonna list the one's that render the opponent useless.

 

Ye, it's too many, from a PvP perspective.

 

What could be removed is Force Lift UNLESS specced into, but only for shadows, Sages don't have that much CC I think, they could use one.

Force Stun, meh, long CD and one of the 2 stuns we have that doesn't break on damage, doesn't need to be removed imo.

Sniper is the strongest class of the game.

 

You loco if you think otherwise OP.

It's so you have to eat 48 hot dogs at a time.

 

A source in Bioware told me that they are behind it. Their plan is that America's obesity epidemic continues to expand in hot-dog-fuelled insanity, such that soon everyone will be so enormously overweight that all they can do is slump at home the whole day and buy cartel coins to play SWTOR.

 

The cunning swine.

 

And I bet you eat premade hotdogs and just don't care.

 

edit: I may be about to leave work for the day and a little stir crazy.

 

WROOOONG. 24 is the least common factor of 12 and 3 not 48.