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My Theory on Theron Shan [Spoilers]

StarkHelsing

By StarkHelsing
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StarkHelsing

StarkHelsing

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I know there's plenty of threads out there discussing Theron Shan and of course, him being the traitor. I've obviously come up with my own theory and would like to discuss it with people and see if anyone can see any weakness in my theory!

 

So please read and tell me what you think!

 

 

I think Theron is playing the double agent, so to speak. Obviously, the enemy has been watching the Alliance for some time and may have tapped coms. Regardless, if they were a big threat, then you would need everything to go as smoothly as possible, hence, the double agent where the Alliance commander doesn't actually know what Theron's true motives are. But he's leaving clues.

 

The first clue I've seen is when in the first cutscene when you win the throne, and Theron is deep at work looking at all the information coming in when Lana is telling him to relax and celebrate. While this could also be about the fighting between the Empire and Republic, but we know he was planning this, both of them had seen the reports. Theron's the reason why the conflict was happening. He was seeding information to all three groups. So, was Theron planning this as soon as you removed Valkorian and got onto the throne? That makes zero sense unless he knows there's something else out there. Or he's been aware of them right from the get-go? Maybe that's why he was missing during the first part of the expansion and came in late? He also somehow ended up with your ship, odd that.

 

When you get to Iokath and side with the Empire, his father obviously dies in the process due to connecting with the chair. Obviously, the guy was completely fried, his nervous system went to crap. When the Outlander connects to the chair; obviously it's dangerous. It could kill them. What if it was supposed to and Theron's interference or tampering wasn't actually trying to get you killed, but to stop you from dying from neuro overload. I believe if you romanced Dorne and chose the republic you get a message about your health; the fact you were ejected from the chair or the connection was dropped when it did, resulted in you surviving. Also, keep in mind that Theron was the one who was looking into the chair of the original Iokath alien and figured out how they worked. Also consider that the Alien as well as whoever sat on the other chair, Acina/Malcolm was fried. A conclusion can be drawn that the chair would kill anyone who used it. A sacrifice. This can be linked to the fact when you use the chair, Tyth calls you a sacrifice.

 

If he were working with this shadowy group, then he would have gotten into the group just for assassinating you right there and then. Your survival or rather, his interference saved your life but resulted in the shadowy group to ask more of him to be accepted. The conversation between him and the masked man showed that they were originally unsure and didn't trust him. They must have had a reason for that. This means he needed to do something much more drastic. This is what resulted in Umbra.

 

If Theron's father is killed you also get a message on how he's having nightmares etc. He's suffering from guilt. Beyond this, when Lana and Theron argue about how to find the rat, he approves if you don't ruin the trust of the alliance by snooping into their mail. Stop and consider this for a moment, why would he want that? He can get around any security the alliance has concerning communication, it wouldn't affect him if we monitored the mail. Allowing us to snoop and screen, our alliance soldiers would have worked in his favour if he wanted to destroy the Alliance. He didn't want that. He knew the sting of his betrayal would hit deep, but more damage certainly wasn't needed right now. It needed to be strong to fight this new enemy. He didn't want our paranoia wreaking the alliance. And if he was our enemy then paranoia would have been one of his greatest weapons.

 

Let's fast forward to Umbra. What he says doesn't make a lick of sense, nor the fact he set 'phasers' to stun. Wouldn't killing Lana, or you, since it was aimed for you right there on the train make more sense? A SIS agent wouldn't be that sloppy. Theron isn't that sloppy.

 

And of course we go back to the fact what he said makes no sense, but it angers/upsets the commander. Enough so to believe what he's doing is a pure blind betrayal. He needed that. This happened in clone wars, where Obi-wan faked his death and the council refused to tell Anakin. Anakin's reaction was what sold it. I believe this is what the Devs were going for. Acting is one thing, but nothing beats that pure emotional distress. You could hear it in the commander's voice when they sent the message. This is what resulted in them accepting Theron into their group.

 

What's more is that Theron left the crystals, yet again, sloppy. Why would he do that? Now we have super powerful crystals for us to make super tech and defend ourselves.

 

I read somewhere that this whole arch is going to be tied somewhat into the Agents storyline, and there's only one group I can think that would work with this. The Star Cabal.

 

The Star Cabal has one purpose and was 'Formed with the purpose of eradicating the Jedi and Sith, allowing for once the 'ordinary people to rule','

 

The Star Cabal knew about SCORPIO and the Iokath technology. They had their agents everywhere, including on Tython, Hutt Cartel, higher up organisations and the Empire. Think about that, they want to completely eliminate everyone who's force sensitive so this never crops up again. Or to simply destroy the Republic's Guardians and annihilate the Empire, and now, the Alliance.

 

Supposedly they dissolved when Cipher Nine busted down doors, but they didn't kill all of them. Some went missing, and obviously, it's a massive group. A huge group. Just because some of the leaders were killed doesn't mean they can't come back with a vengeance. It's been over five years after all. Years where they thought you were dead. And let's be honest, the game really only makes sense if you're playing as a force sensitive. They have a reason to hate you for being force sensitive. They have a reason to want you gone even more because you are the middle of it all, even as a peacekeeper you are keeping everyone in line, you're in control. But what makes the most sense about this is the whole speech on how the Alliance is corrupt, tyrannical, crushing everyone and keeping them under an iron fist. This is what the Star Cabal thinks. They believe people who are force sensitive should not be in control because of the never-ending cycle of war caused by the force.

 

I think this is the group that is now our enemy. This is the group Theran is trying to take down. They want to destroy everything, they want to kill his mother, his friends... etc. Theran has seen the worst and best of what the force can do, but he's also seen it when the force is completely gone - where there's no connection. where the world is void of it. Nathema, and Ziost.

 

But we could counterbalance this and say, maybe he's joining the Star Cabal so he can stop wars, bring peace. Ask yourself something, does that seem like Theran? Would he kill millions, billions to stop wars? Would he allow his mother to die, would he allow his friends to die? Would he throw his old master, a Jedi who raised him - and father figure - teachings to the ground? Would he turn back on the woman/man he loves? No. He is a Shan, and he's every bit as tenacious as his great great great grandfather was. But he won't go back on what he is. That's not Theron Shan. It goes against his character in both in the game and in the books.

 

One friend has to give everything up, his friends, his life, to save the republic, to save everyone. Think about it. If the Jedi and Sith are killed, the Empire would win regardless. They have superior technology, they are dogmatic, they are ruled by strict and sadly, they treat their soldiers better. In the storylines you see Havoc abandon the republic for them. In another scenario with the dread masters, if you're light sided towards republic soldiers, you get a message where one of them has jumped ship to the Empire because they felt safer, they felt a brotherhood that they never had in the republic. They were, respected in the Empire. Of course, you can also say that Dorne and her brother also jumped ship, so that's a moral debate for later. Point being, the Empire is very militaristic, strict and has beliefs that they are better than the rest and will destroy all. Not even superior numbers of the republic can fix that, especially if Malcolm is killed, Havoc Squad removed, etc.

 

I think the Voss Dajan-Ko was talking about Theron. He's risking everything, complete isolation to save everything. His friends, his family, his way of life, this thing he has built... and his lover. This is Theron Shan. And he is not a traitor.

 

Edited by StarkHelsing
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fishpeople

fishpeople

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Hmmm-

 

 

The plot reeks of a double agent story, the only question I have is why didn't he discreetly inform the commander? Judging by what occurred during the Umbara part, I'm under the impression Lana is involved in whatever is going on too.

 

I'm left to assume whatever it is we're combating has already infiltrated the Alliance base.

 

Either way, he's dead, if I can't kill him, he's going on the exiled list.

 

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Swingkittie

Swingkittie

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I liked your post it was an interesting and well thought out theory. I am hoping that they can write something new and different though instead of just re-hashing the agent story line as a major story arc for everyone. Don't get me wrong, because I love the agent story. It is actually my favorite one in the game of the main class stories.
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SolarSaenz

SolarSaenz

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I believe they are going to explain that Theron was "working for the greater good".

 

As to this "order", unless you've come across data mined information, I doubt the star cabal is the "order".

Remember, in the final parts of the agent story line Keeper/Watcher 1/Shara says that they're making the identities of all star cabal members available to "everybody who's anybody" so to speak so they can be neutralized. So, by this time, it's plausible that even if the star cabal exists they don't nearly have the resources, influence, and power they once had, and that's if they still exist as an organization.

 

Tangent: are we explicitly told the Star Cabal knew about Iokath? Of course, they had SCORPIO, but I was under the impression, the Star Cabal just found "her" after SCORPIO had been sent away from Iokath. When the Star Cabal found "her", I thought they kind of just went like "Hey, this is really cool. Let's use it. I wonder where it came from?"

I never did KOTET on an IA. Are there IA specific lines of dialogue during the KOTET chapters saying the Star Cabal knew all about Iokath?

 

Unless you have data mined information, I think the "order" will be a new thing

 

But, yeah, I think it's overly obvious that Theron's "betrayal" is just theatrics, and he's working for "the greater good".

 

 

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Dracofish

Dracofish

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Hmmm-

 

 

The plot reeks of a double agent story, the only question I have is why didn't he discreetly inform the commander? Judging by what occurred during the Umbara part, I'm under the impression Lana is involved in whatever is going on too.

 

I'm left to assume whatever it is we're combating has already infiltrated the Alliance base.

 

Either way, he's dead, if I can't kill him, he's going on the exiled list.

 

 

 

I think it's easy for them to swing that the Commander being left in the dark for realism is probable. If Theron is truly trying to convince a secret organization of his fake loyalty, he'd really have to sell it. We've already seen that once with Rishi and someone mentioned the other day in the Clone Wars series that Anakin was intentionally left in the dark when Obi-Wan faked his death and the only thing that sold it was his genuine reaction.

 

 

Edited by Dracofish
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Dracofish

Dracofish

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I believe they are going to explain that Theron was "working for the greater good".

 

As to this "order", unless you've come across data mined information, I doubt the star cabal is the "order".

Remember, in the final parts of the agent story line Keeper/Watcher 1/Shara says that they're making the identities of all star cabal members available to "everybody who's anybody" so to speak so they can be neutralized. So, by this time, it's plausible that even if the star cabal exists they don't nearly have the resources, influence, and power they once had, and that's if they still exist as an organization.

 

Tangent: are we explicitly told the Star Cabal knew about Iokath? Of course, they had SCORPIO, but I was under the impression, the Star Cabal just found "her" after SCORPIO had been sent away from Iokath. When the Star Cabal found "her", I thought they kind of just went like "Hey, this is really cool. Let's use it. I wonder where it came from?"

I never did KOTET on an IA. Are there IA specific lines of dialogue during the KOTET chapters saying the Star Cabal knew all about Iokath?

 

Unless you have data mined information, I think the "order" will be a new thing

 

But, yeah, I think it's overly obvious that Theron's "betrayal" is just theatrics, and he's working for "the greater good".

 

 

I wish I knew how to quote more than one person at a time, lol.

 

 

 

I also don't think it's going to re-hash old class stories, especially since some people may not have played through them all. I know I haven't done the Consular yet...I'm trying...really trying...it's like trying to swallow dry toast that just gets stuck in the back of your throat, lol.

 

I think BW has left more than enough stuff out in the open for us to assume that whatever this "Order" is, it has to be connected to things we've seen in the expansions. Like seriously, room of uber-creep on the Gravestone? Yeah, totally thinking that's gotta come up at some point. Zildrog? Zildrog? Zildrog? The fact that the Gravestone is supposed to be self-aware? All this stuff. They didn't just drop all those little nuances for funsies.

 

 

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Ioue

Ioue

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Your point on paranoia was an excellent point as I'm sure psychological warfare would be a key tool for spies. If he was a wholeheartedly pro-The Order, Theron, not Lana, would be the first to suggest spying on everyone as that would benefit Alliance's new enemy. He does suggest some shady and ruthless choices like allying with Kaliyo, an established terrorist by kotet (previous companions, sure, but still a terrorist). In previous emails he sends in kotfe, he already read a lot of emails that are not his. So, the fact he's adamantly against spying does say something about his actions so far. So he doesn't shy away from being ruthless or morally clean like a pure LS Jedi would want.

 

I'm on the bandwagon that he's playing the double agent, and at heart, he's on the side of the Alliance. He might not come back, but I don't think he fully accepts the whole "let's go apocalyptic with these superweapons on EVERYONE."

 

I am curious on how these superweapons work as in why do they need a sacrifice from a chair? I'm sure the devs will not go further into details, but my curiosity just perks up.

 

More and more, I'm getting interested in how Theron was just singled out like this, and how his character will be explored and tested in coming chapters. Theron does have an interesting background that's connected to a lot of swtor & kotor history. The betrayal sucked (and perhaps could have executed better), but I think the potential is there. I'm curious how the devs will play with his background and where the Eternal Alliance will go.

 

... I really need to finish the IA storyline.

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SolarSaenz

SolarSaenz

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... I really need to finish the IA storyline.

 

The IA storyline is arguably the best of the vanilla class stories.

I've played it several times and even recorded my last play through of it (mostly cut scenes) using FRAPS.

The IA story is so good, I wish Disney would make a trilogy or a part 1 and 2 live action movie version of a similar type of story, maybe set either during the events of the OT or era of the new trilogy (NT?).

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Kataret

Kataret

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I also don't think it's going to re-hash old class stories, especially since some people may not have played through them all. I know I haven't done the Consular yet...I'm trying...really trying...it's like trying to swallow dry toast that just gets stuck in the back of your throat, lol.

 

I'm also hoping that this truly is a very new enemy. Malgus, Jadus, the Dread Masters. They were all great because they were NEW and UNIQUE characters found exclusively in Swtor. I've enjoyed the reappearance of old enemies like Revan, but after spending the last three expansions with a focus on Valkorion, a character dating back to the lore of KOTOR, it would be good to get something fresh with small connections to other pieces of game lore.

Edited by Kataret
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Alterkai

Alterkai

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emmmm,

 

I doubt theron is for both side, cause valkorion said to us before his death remember me when your alliance burns into ash ( <------------- emperor rises again???)

 

so the destruction of the eternal alliance is ensured in the future, and theron knows the entire alliance inside out.... so it may turns out the order can not offer what theron wants as well and he will come back to us

 

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Swingkittie

Swingkittie

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emmmm,

 

I doubt theron is for both side, cause valkorion said to us before his death remember me when your alliance burns into ash ( <------------- emperor rises again???)

 

so the destruction of the eternal alliance is ensured in the future, and theron knows the entire alliance inside out.... so it may turns out the order can not offer what theron wants as well and he will come back to us

 

Also,

 

If you have Lana and Theron with you when you take the throne, Valkorian warns us that we would be betrayed by them. Although he doesn't go into much detail because he wants us to kill them, obviously. Valkorian seems to have a lot of insight on the matter, maybe from his millennia of ruling and such he has basically seen it all so he can "predict" what he thinks will happen based on human nature.

 

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Dracofish

Dracofish

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Also,

 

If you have Lana and Theron with you when you take the throne, Valkorian warns us that we would be betrayed by them. Although he doesn't go into much detail because he wants us to kill them, obviously. Valkorian seems to have a lot of insight on the matter, maybe from his millennia of ruling and such he has basically seen it all so he can "predict" what he thinks will happen based on human nature.

 

 

 

He doesn't say that. He questions them as a means of putting doubt in the Commander's mind, just before he mind-pounces you. He says this -

 

"Do they truly serve you? Or do they plot your downfall, to claim the throne for their respective factions?"

 

And then you can respond however you so choose to him. But he never outright says "they will betray you" and I honestly don't think this was foreshadowing to Theron's "betrayal," especially since the story pretty much reeks of the intention that Arcann should really be alive (even though two of the best romance dialogues in the game are locked behind dead Arcann). And in this sense, he specifically references the Republic and the Empire, not some third party nutter-mask people.

 

 

Edited by Dracofish
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Swingkittie

Swingkittie

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He doesn't say that. He questions them as a means of putting doubt in the Commander's mind, just before he mind-pounces you. He says this -

 

"Do they truly serve you? Or do they plot your downfall, to claim the throne for their respective factions?"

 

And then you can respond however you so choose to him. But he never outright says "they will betray you" and I honestly don't think this was foreshadowing to Theron's "betrayal," especially since the story pretty much reeks of the intention that Arcann should really be alive (even though two of the best romance dialogues in the game are locked behind dead Arcann). And in this sense, he specifically references the Republic and the Empire, not some third party nutter-mask people.

 

 

Why are you taking what I wrote word for word? I didn't have the exact dialog when I wrote my post, but because I wrote the word betray you have to correct the way I chose my words? You tell me then what does "claim the throne for their respective factions" mean if not a betrayal? Because "plotting the downfall" and "claiming the throne" are words describing a betrayer even if Valkorian didn't use the exact word betray.

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Dracofish

Dracofish

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Why are you taking what I wrote word for word? I didn't have the exact dialog when I wrote my post, but because I wrote the word betray you have to correct the way I chose my words? You tell me then what does "claim the throne for their respective factions" mean if not a betrayal? Because "plotting the downfall" and "claiming the throne" are words describing a betrayer even if Valkorian didn't use the exact word betray.

 

Wow, defensive much?

 

I'm just saying that he doesn't outright say "watch out, your advisers are going to betray you in the future." What he says, and how he says it, is more of a means to try and unbalance the Outlander, because he knows he's going to mind-pounce in just a few minutes. Like a psyche-out.

 

If it was actual and true foreshadowing to Umbara, I don't believe BioWare would have left it locked behind a "dead Arcann" gate when most people leave him alive. And if Arcann is alive, and he's with the Outlander, Valkorion fingers him and Senya instead as potential threats in the same exact conversation. So, again, I don't think it's true foreshadowing of the actual "betrayal" later.

 

Sorry if my opinion on the matter is an issue for you.

Edited by Dracofish
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kukumburr

kukumburr

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"Claiming the throne for their respective factions" would mean Theron wanted to claim it for the Republic but after Iokath and Umbara that doesn't seem true at all. I think Valkorion was just trying to distance you from your allies. Especially since he comes up with an excuse to accuse Lana and Theron but also Arcann and Senya. If it was specific to Theron I'd think there was more to it but as it is I think Valkorion is just messing with you.
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Ioue

Ioue

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"Claiming the throne for their respective factions" would mean Theron wanted to claim it for the Republic but after Iokath and Umbara that doesn't seem true at all. I think Valkorion was just trying to distance you from your allies. Especially since he comes up with an excuse to accuse Lana and Theron but also Arcann and Senya. If it was specific to Theron I'd think there was more to it but as it is I think Valkorion is just messing with you.

I agree with that as well. Divide and conquer is one of the oldest yet the most effective trick in the book to defeating someone or something. Valkorion/Sith Emperor has lived looong enough to know how effective this is. Seeing as how he's an outstanding manipulator, it doesn't surprise me at all that he will throw all of his tricks to isolate and distance the PC from all of his/her allies during the key moment of gaining the throne.

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IoNonSoEVero

IoNonSoEVero

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I do think it's just a Valkorion mind game to try to distance you from your advisors/friends, especially if the same conversation happens regardless of who is in the elevator with you (L&T or S&A). He wants you to distrust them and perhaps be even more off-guard and conflicted so he can do what he wants in that Chapter.

 

Valkorion spends the entire length of KOTFE and KOTET trying to mentally manipulate the Commander. The Commander's repeatedly told that they can't succeed without Valkorion's power; etc. and he puts on a very thorough show trying to get the Commander to believe he's their ally. It's just another attempt at manipulation.

Edited by IoNonSoEVero
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Ioue

Ioue

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I do think it's just a Valkorion mind game to try to distance you from your advisors/friends, especially if the same conversation happens regardless of who is in the elevator with you (L&T or S&A). He wants you to distrust them and perhaps be even more off-guard and conflicted so he can do what he wants in that Chapter.

 

Valkorion spends the entire length of KOTFE and KOTET trying to mentally manipulate the Commander. The Commander's repeatedly told that they can't succeed without Valkorion's power; etc. and he puts on a very thorough show trying to get the Commander to believe he's their ally. It's just another attempt at manipulation.

I don't think Valkorion is manipulating Theron like he was trying with Outlander. In fact, I don't think he's all that interested in Theron. All of Umbara and now with Chiss, it's all Theron's doing on whatever outcomes he's potentially seeing and wanting to prevent. Or he truly was a sneaky traitor ALL. ALONG. *dun dun duuuuuuun*

 

All of what Valkorion said on the last chapter, it's one of his mind tricks. Seeding distrust is adding more on the mental mind plate, dividing a person's attention span. Psychologically, this would weaken a person's mind defenses given where the battles take place in Ch 9 of kotET.

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IoNonSoEVero

IoNonSoEVero

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I don't think Valkorion is manipulating Theron like he was trying with Outlander. In fact, I don't think he's all that interested in Theron. All of Umbara and now with Chiss, it's all Theron's doing on whatever outcomes he's potentially seeing and wanting to prevent. Or he truly was a sneaky traitor ALL. ALONG. *dun dun duuuuuuun*

 

All of what Valkorion said on the last chapter, it's one of his mind tricks. Seeding distrust is adding more on the mental mind plate, dividing a person's attention span. Psychologically, this would weaken a person's mind defenses given where the battles take place in Ch 9 of kotET.

 

That's precisely what I was trying to say: that I think Valkorion's comments in the elevator were just another attempt to mess with the Commander. It's not about Theron (or anyone else in the elevator) at all. It's just Valkorion trying to seed doubt and division in the Commander's mind and confuse them at a critical point, when they're taking the throne.

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Swingkittie

Swingkittie

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I don't think Valkorion is manipulating Theron like he was trying with Outlander. In fact, I don't think he's all that interested in Theron. All of Umbara and now with Chiss, it's all Theron's doing on whatever outcomes he's potentially seeing and wanting to prevent. Or he truly was a sneaky traitor ALL. ALONG. *dun dun duuuuuuun*

 

All of what Valkorion said on the last chapter, it's one of his mind tricks. Seeding distrust is adding more on the mental mind plate, dividing a person's attention span. Psychologically, this would weaken a person's mind defenses given where the battles take place in Ch 9 of kotET.

 

That's what I believe as well. The reason I brought up this point to begin with is because it was out there and given to us in game dialog. I think it is an interesting subject to discuss and it gives us a lot to consider. Now what would really be fantastic is if Valkorian was right all along. Oh and that Theron is really a traitor. :eek:

 

That is not what I would wish for though, but it makes for interesting storytelling. The charming spy and son of republic heroes going bad.... Well, that better not really be the case anyway. :rolleyes:

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DAWUSS

DAWUSS

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I don't think Valkorion is manipulating Theron like he was trying with Outlander. In fact, I don't think he's all that interested in Theron. .

 

The only thing Valkorion might find significantly interesting about Theron is his ancestry. Revan's descendant and no Force training? Theron's accomplishments would certainly spark the interest of someone like Valkorion.

 

That said, I hope he's (Valk) gone and done for.

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