Ben Irving: "The gear grind I introduced to 5.0 with Galactic Command lost half our player base and forced us to merge servers...I don't think it could have gone any worse."

Keith Kanneg: "Hold my beer"

Ben Irving: "The gear grind I introduced to 5.0 with Galactic Command lost half our player base and forced us to merge servers...I don't think it could have gone any worse."

 

Keith Kanneg: "Hold my beer"

Somewhere in November 2017 (y'know, like a year ago)...

"We recognized we screwed up and solved the gearing issues with 5.6."

Get with the times brah,

Dasty

Somewhere in November 2017 (y'know, like a year ago)...

 

"We recognized we screwed up and solved the gearing issues with 5.6."

 

Get with the times brah,

 

Dasty

*Somewhere else in November 2017*

SWTOR Server Merges

Somewhere in November 2017 (y'know, like a year ago)...

 

"We recognized we screwed up and solved the gearing issues with 5.6."

 

Get with the times brah,

 

Dasty

We're talking about 5.10, not 5.6...get with the times

brah

We're talking about 5.10, not 5.6...get with the times

 

brah

Don't fault me for your inability to do math, brah. They took RNG out of the system more so than any other MMORPG I can think of.

If you have a specific complaint about 5.10, level it. We are approaching 2019. If you want to engage in a pointless gear grind prior to 6.0 that's on you. I'm on record saying I have no need to do it.

Dasty

Don't fault me for your inability to do math, brah. They took RNG out of the system more so than any other MMORPG I can think of.

 

If you have a specific complaint about 5.10, level it. We are approaching 2019. If you want to engage in a pointless gear grind prior to 6.0 that's on you. I'm on record saying I have no need to do it.

 

Dasty

Hi, Dasty! <3

If you have a specific complaint about 5.10, level it. We are approaching 2019. If you want to engage in a pointless gear grind prior to 6.0 that's on you. I'm on record saying I have no need to do it.

 

Dasty

No need to do the gear grind? Good for you I guess, right? Sadly, many other players will have a need to do it...whether they PvP or PvE, they'll need the new gear or they'll be "under geared". That's just how it works.

I'm fine with 90% of 5.10, but the new gear grind is not okay imo...it's another worthless time sink that HAS to be done by most players. It's not fun. It's a waste of time. It's ridiculous imo.

No need to do the gear grind? Good for you I guess, right? Sadly, many other players will have a need to do it...whether they PvP or PvE, they'll need the new gear or they'll be "under geared". That's just how it works.

 

I'm fine with 90% of 5.10, but the new gear grind is not okay imo...it's another worthless time sink that HAS to be done by most players. It's not fun. It's a waste of time. It's ridiculous imo.

Your post contradicts itself. If it is a worthless grind because it is a placeholder until 6.0 then you don't need to do it.

If it is so hard to get, then it won't impact PvP. If you don't do MM Ops, who cares?

Make sense Tux!

Dasty

P.S. Hey Esh! Welcome back.

Your post contradicts itself. If it is a worthless grind because it is a placeholder until 6.0 then you don't need to do it.

 

If it is so hard to get, then it won't impact PvP. If you don't do MM Ops, who cares?

 

Make sense Tux!

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Hey Esh! Welcome back.

MM players aren't the ones who need to add 100-200 DPS to their rotations - it's the average and below average players who need this gear to do things, not NiM capable teams.

It's necessary for PvP because stats matter. Unless Bolster is moved to 258, it will become a necessity to avoid a gear gap.

The GRIND is a waste of time - the gear is not. The grind is only meant to give us necessary busy work until 6.0 can be released next December.

Could you guys just stop saying 'brah'?

yes, brah-ette.

Somewhere in November 2017 (y'know, like a year ago)...

 

"We recognized we screwed up and solved the gearing issues with 5.6."

 

Get with the times brah,

 

Dasty

https://imgur.com/gallery/3Vv2G6v

Dast in the wind.

https://imgur.com/gallery/3Vv2G6v

 

 

Dast in the wind.

Thank you, I was hoping someone would realize this.

Don't fault me for your inability to do math, brah. They took RNG out of the system more so than any other MMORPG I can think of.

 

If you have a specific complaint about 5.10, level it. We are approaching 2019. If you want to engage in a pointless gear grind prior to 6.0 that's on you. I'm on record saying I have no need to do it.

 

Dasty

What this guy is having difficulty understanding is that we are comparing the foolish decision they made in 5.0 to repeating it in 5.10...nothing to do with 5.6...it's about making the same (or worse) mistake that is going to hurt the health of this game.

MM players aren't the ones who need to add 100-200 DPS to their rotations - it's the average and below average players who need this gear to do things, not NiM capable teams.

 

It's necessary for PvP because stats matter. Unless Bolster is moved to 258, it will become a necessity to avoid a gear gap.

 

The GRIND is a waste of time - the gear is not. The grind is only meant to give us necessary busy work until 6.0 can be released next December.

Very well said, agree completely. Not sure why BW cannot understand this one simple fact. It seems to me that the gold farmers called and said they need more business, and BW was like "Yeah we love gold farmers...lets help em ruin the economy more." Because its not like the 1 MM raid group that exists on this game will be happy to invite ALL the rest of the players in the game to join them doing raids. It is terrible policy to add features or grinds that require you need to be part of the only 8-man group on the game to accomplish.

"Lets make the game be only for those 8 players, screw the rest..." signed BadPolicy

Your post contradicts itself. If it is a worthless grind because it is a placeholder until 6.0 then you don't need to do it.

Setting aside whether or not one "needs" the new gear, I have a completely different question.

Wouldn't it be GOOD for the game if this new tier of gear were added in such a way that it felt rewarding and fun to obtain? As a developer, one can engineer systems that feel more grindy, or one can engineer systems that feel more rewarding.

The difference between 5.0 and 5.6 is a good example of that.

Why not make the 5.10 gearing process more fun? More players would participate, rather than passing on it. More people would be engaged. I don't see the downside to this sort of approach.

Why not make the 5.10 gearing process more fun? More players would participate, rather than passing on it. More people would be engaged. I don't see the downside to this sort of approach.

Exactly

No need to do the gear grind? Good for you I guess, right? Sadly, many other players will have a need to do it...whether they PvP or PvE, they'll need the new gear or they'll be "under geared". That's just how it works.

 

I'm fine with 90% of 5.10, but the new gear grind is not okay imo...it's another worthless time sink that HAS to be done by most players. It's not fun. It's a waste of time. It's ridiculous imo.

Exactly not to mention the new changes designed to exacerbate the gear grind by not allowing mods and enhancements to change gear pieces (such as a crit enhancement from a glove not allowed to go where an alacrity enhancement of a different armored slot goes) which makes min\maxing more difficult. They didn't need to change a darn thing with the current gearing system.

Setting aside whether or not one "needs" the new gear, I have a completely different question.

 

Wouldn't it be GOOD for the game if this new tier of gear were added in such a way that it felt rewarding and fun to obtain? As a developer, one can engineer systems that feel more grindy, or one can engineer systems that feel more rewarding.

 

The difference between 5.0 and 5.6 is a good example of that.

 

Why not make the 5.10 gearing process more fun? More players would participate, rather than passing on it. More people would be engaged. I don't see the downside to this sort of approach.

100% agree.

However, you'll notice that 4.0 they made gear very grindy, only one chance at rolling per week on a character because of "marked operation" only for BIS. Very bad decision.

Eventually they brought 224's to NIM, and I briefly resubbed, got geared, and had some fun without worrying about gear.

Then 5.0 was announced, and I dropped and ran away.

Did not come back until they fixed the gear grind.

Now I can gear a character in about two weeks, all BIS. I do not stop playing when I get gear, instead I play MORE because there is parity.

I'm not sure why they get this, gear should not be the focus, adventures and battles with other players should be.

For a casual this new version looks like it will be great, the ability to get super over powered gear for the content they run, all from an easy open world set of dailies.

For a PVP-er this looks like a cursed evil thing if I understand it, I hope I'm wrong.

Not sure exactly how this will be for raiders, but some will likely make serious bank here.

I'm not sure why they get this, gear should not be the focus, adventures and battles with other players should be.

You are correct. Battles with the environment and with other players, to do stuff at one's own pace with as many or as few friends as you chose SHOULD be the focus.

Unfortunately in a drought of content, and no change on the horizon, a needless gear grind or level cap increase is the last desperate roll of the dice to retain players.

IMHO If you've been subbed for over a certain length of time, you should just be awarded BiS gear. - If you are F2P or only subbed a couple of months there should be a small grind or cost. ( CCs, credits, varying hoops to jump through... etc....) It'd take out any complaints right there and then.

I think if they'd spent the time making exciting content instead of mucking about with gear and stats and a new currency, we'd all be grateful and on the same page, going forward.

We lost best part of a year's dev time over Galactic command + server merges.... can't see that repeating that is a winning business strategy.....

yes, brah-ette.

LOL Thanks Rion Starbrah.

Could you guys just stop saying 'brah'?

^^ Endorsed.

Seriously.. it's not cute, it's not purposeful, and it's not respectful (unless you are a Hawaiian native, AND sincere in it's use). And no... "bro" is not OK either. I am OK with the gender neutral "hay you!" or any reasonable derivative.

Why? because it is gender biased (male) and the population of forum members consists of both genders... just like real life.

Personally, I think it shows a weakness in character in it's gender specific application, and it's actually kind of thoughtless the way the average American uses it. And don't even try to play the "PC police card" with me..... gender and proper use of terms in gender DO matter still in the English language.

lol thanks rion starbrah.

That was LOL... as was Rion's response.

Exactly not to mention the new changes designed to exacerbate the gear grind by not allowing mods and enhancements to change gear pieces (such as a crit enhancement from a glove not allowed to go where an alacrity enhancement of a different armored slot goes) which makes min\maxing more difficult. They didn't need to change a darn thing with the current gearing system.

Wait ... the new 252 & 258 gear is going to be solid gear pieces? We're not going to be crafting armorings, mods, & enahncements? If that's the case, then I have to agree with the haters on this whole thing. If I can't use my legacy armor shells anymore, I will be hard passing on *doubling* the amount of gear I need for the 8 toons I PvP with.

I had sort of thought all the PvP salt was over the top, but ... yeah. If there is a significant gear gap that can only be bridged by getting new, solid, non-legacy armor for each toon I want to PvP on? Hell no. I will almost certainly unsub and take a break. There are a lot of new games coming out this Fall/Winter.

<<Flexes Hutt Fingers, takes a sip of martini, and says ... Let's Rock>>

This is a thread about gearing. The OP began this thread with a well-justified (though now tiresome) jibe at Ben Irving and 5.0. I'm going to ask each and every one of you to dig deep and be brutally honest with yourselves. If a thread is premised on that point, the vast, vast majority of us would think he is critiquing Irving's now infamous quote, " RNG is fun!"

Now, he is suggesting that Keith in 5.10 is making a mistake that is comparable to 5.0 RN-Jesus. This only makes sense if 5.10 is relevant in the grand scheme of things. Setting aside the introduction of a new story line, which is something I think we all want, there have been really only two good responses to mine: 1) Luna asking me to stop saying "brah" -- done; and 2) Khaleg's point about "couldn't they make the gear grind more fun." Since I have addressed the first, I will now deal with the second.

Khaleg,

You hit the nail on the head. It's not about the gear grind per se. It's about the content in which to do the grind. This thread is a good demonstration of the strata. You have some saying it isn't fun because it really only applies to such a small segment of the population who do ops at its higher levels of difficulty. You have Tux who makes the valid point that it isn't the small pool of decent NiM Ops players who need it, but those struggling on NiM mode and need a bit more DPS, other stats, etc. You then have the PvP point about bolster.

The entire 5.10 gearing system is what is now (based on many of the responses) working perfectly as an illusory distraction. It is simply designed to get those who want to spend (some would say waste) time gaining a few more Ilvls to do content until 6.0 is released.

1) For PvE-ers, if you have no intention of doing the hardest level of Ops it is irrelevant.

2) To Tux's point about about NiM raiders needing a bit more DPS. The new system does absolutely nothing to hurt them. It can only help them by its very definition.

3) PvP Bolster. Excellent point. I, and virtually every one else, has agreed that this is an issue but...if the system is burdensome then very few people will get the gear before 6.0 so it is irrelevant. As noted before, the actual number of people in full 248 gear with 240 augments in WZs now is limited. But, yes, they should answer the bolster system question.

Now, if the OP and others want to complain about the cost of the gear that is one thing. But there is no way they can make the gear grind more interesting for many of us because it is not associated with any type of content that interests us. It is that mythical pot of gold at the end of the rainbow designed to keep the masses happy. As soon as you reach it, there is another brand new pot.

Given my Hutt-like intelligence, I choose not to be part of the masses. Obviously some in this thread do. But to compare a new level of costly and largely pointless gear to 5.0 is specious and flat out erroneous.

<<Takes another sip of his martini and tosses another hapless Gamorrean in to the beast pit for entertainment.>>

Dasty