So there's 2 classes that only have the capability to do damage, why are there no classes that only heal or only tank? I understand these 2 might be harder to achieve but I'm some something can be done. Finding groups is painful at the moment because there's just so many DPS classes and not enough healers and tanks, I put this down to both of them being pretty boring to play. For example I'd like to see a class that has trees that specialize in burst healing, HoT healing and a tree for basically 'gaurding' which would consist of enchantments, protection wards, AoE buffs etc etc. Sure these might not bring much to a team but by hybridding it may well do so. I understand this is basically a suggestion but I've placed it in the General Discussion section because I could probably bet it will never happen. Just a thought. Haven't really given any thought on how a full tank class would look for the time being.

Which 2 classes are those? All the main classes have 2 options at level 10, one of which is DPS centred.

 

The reason you see so many DPS around is that lots of people prefer to play DPS compared to a tank or healer.

Which 2 classes are those? All the main classes have 2 options at level 10, one of which is DPS centred.

 

The reason you see so many DPS around is that lots of people prefer to play DPS compared to a tank or healer.

 

I think he is referring to sniper class and marauders, not sure of their republic counterparts

I think he is referring to sniper class and marauders, not sure of their republic counterparts

 

So 2 of 8 are really pure DPS choices. Considering that the trinity approach means 2 DPS is ideal per group of 4 you should expect some extra DPS only classes. As I said the reason that DPS is so common and they have to wait longer for groups is solely because you have more DPS being played, no tinkering with classes is going to override what a player chooses to play (unless you remove the trinity concept altogether) and lots of people choose to play DPS.

I think he is referring to sniper class and marauders, not sure of their republic counterparts

Gusslinger and Sentinel are the Republic classes which have only DPS.

 

I think it is okay to have those classes they way they are, if one want to play hybrid or switch between two roles they silpmy do not take one of those classes, and when you never want to be bothered by people telling you that you should respec into tank or healer then take one of those two classes and say you can't.

Gusslinger and Sentinel are the Republic classes which have only DPS.

 

I think it is okay to have those classes they way they are, if one want to play hybrid or switch between two roles they silpmy do not take one of those classes, and when you never want to be bothered by people telling you that you should respec into tank or healer then take one of those two classes and say you can't.

Precisely this. Each faction has 2 advanced classes incapable of switching to another role, and it should stay that way. One is ranged, the other melee, which makes for a perfect selection of DPS-only classes. They're not meant to tank or heal, they were never meant to tank or heal, never should be meant to tank or heal. And no, one shouldn't be able to switch out of those AC's either.

Edited February 18, 2013 by AsheraII

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that there's far too many people playing DPS. Sure groups/ops consist of more DPS than Heals and Tanks but there is WAY too many people playing DPS compared to the others. What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that there's far too many people playing DPS. Sure groups/ops consist of more DPS than Heals and Tanks but there is WAY too many people playing DPS compared to the others. What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

 

I'm not sure that the number of people who play a DPS spec are all that different across the entire MMO genre. There will always be significantly more DPS players to healers and tanks. DPS doesn't require the same type of focus as the other two classes. It can be said that people will play a tank over a healer and vise versa because the focus of those classes are different. I love playing as a healer. It's just how I feel my talents are best utilized in game. Other people feel like their talents are used more efficiently as a DPS or Tank. I'm glad to have them, and I'll heal them all day long.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that there's far too many people playing DPS. Sure groups/ops consist of more DPS than Heals and Tanks but there is WAY too many people playing DPS compared to the others. What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

 

Not sure if that would change anything. The people who wants to play DPS would still play DPS, and vice versa.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that there's far too many people playing DPS. Sure groups/ops consist of more DPS than Heals and Tanks but there is WAY too many people playing DPS compared to the others. What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

 

This is true of any MMO that follows the 'Holy Trinity' of tank, heal, dps. Most players prefer to play dps, because dps is usually less stressful. Some players like the extra challenge of tanking / healing, but many don't. Forcing players into tanking or healing roles won't make it any more enjoyable for those who don't relish these roles.

 

If there aren't enough tanks or healers playing the game then devs need to ask themselves why. Are these roles boring? Or are they too stressful? Do tanks and healers have too much responsibility on their shoulders?

 

More players seem willing to have a crack at healing because basic H4 and Flashpoint healing is easy (it gets harder in ops of course). Tanking on the other hand can be hard work at all levels, especially in PUGs, because the tank controls how the instance is run.

 

Any game that follows the 'Holy Trinity' will always have this problem until designers find a way to spread the burden of responsibility better. Things such as giving dps more things to do during a fight than just spam their rotation. Giving more classes the chance to off tank and off heal, etc.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that there's far too many people playing DPS. Sure groups/ops consist of more DPS than Heals and Tanks but there is WAY too many people playing DPS compared to the others. What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

I'm not sure if that would work out too well. Yes, some people love playing dedicated healers or tanks, and wouldn't touch a pure DPS class with a 10 foot pole. But those people would play a healer or tank anyway, and they'd only move away from playing a healer or tank on one of the other classes.

 

The problem is more that many people simply do not WANT to heal or tank. Often, this is from experience they had with those roles from other games. I know I never liked playing either in previous MMO's either. However, I still gave it a shot in SWTOR, and was very pleasantly surprised. These roles are actually fun to do in SWTOR. Healing is MORE than the whack-a-mole healing found in other games, and tanking involves a bit more than spamming threat ability X and shield ability Y. In both roles, you can actually deal some significant damage as well, and are even required to! Throw some dots as a healer! Bring the boss down to 70% while DPS sorts out the adds. You can and often will in this game. DPS players will have higher DPS, ofcourse, but that doesn't mean healers and tanks can't chip in and do their part. They certainly can!

 

 

Another thing to consider: there may be more than enough tanks and healers around, but they might not be interrested in running with a Pick Up Group. I've been in warzones where our team consisted of 4 specced healers and 2 specced tanks, leaving only 2 people who were actually specced for DPS. It doesn't happen every time, but I do see it happen a few times a week. I guess those players prefer warzones over pugging flashpoints.

Many healers and tanks have had bad experiences with Pugs. They easily get blamed over stupid details by the very same idiots who actually caused the wipes. And yes, there are bad healers and bad tanks too. Having a healer who doesn't heal is VERY frustrating for a tank. Just like a tank who doesn't even know which of his abilities generate most aggro or knows what stance to use is extremely frustrating for a healer.

 

Anyone who wants to "keep a high pace" when running through a flashpoint is frustrating to tank and healer alike. Tanks don't like running into the next fight with half their abilities still on cooldown. Healers simply won't be able to keep you alive when their energy is below 50% at the start of the fight. If you knew your mechanics, you'd know that energy regenerates much SLOWER when it's nearly depleted, and the trick for a healer is to have it deplete as slow as possible, so their energy regeneration covers most of the energy they use. So they'll need to start the fight with their energy maxed, not min-ed.

 

So I don't think there'an actual shortage on tanks or healers, but rather, that there's a shortage of tanks and healers in PUGS!

 

 

And the last thing to consider: Can your Advanced Class tank? Can your Advanced Class heal? Most pre-50 flashpoints can be done without a fully specced healer or tank. As a healer or tank, you'll definitely want a few points in the proper tree, but you don't have to spend all your points there. With just about a third of the points you have at your level spent into the tanking or healing tree and switching to the proper stance (if applicable), you're good enough to take on that role pre-50. Some people manage to fulfill the role with even less points spent there. Just from knowing their abilities well. So there's definitely more people who should consider taking the tank or healer role in flashpoints, instead of unticking the box and then come complaining on the forums about long queues and lack of healers. I obviously didn't see them healing either.

The problem of having too many DPS compared to tanks/healers is quite common in many MMOs.

 

Despite thoses well-known examples, BW chose to make groups composed of 1 tank/1 healer/2 DPS, it's a mistake.

 

They should have designed their game around 1/1/3 or maybe even 1/1/4, they should have given more flexibilty with easier way to respec/regear, they should have made leveling content that would actually teach ppl to play properly in a group instead of being too easy, they should have spread the different responsabilities on more classes with more usefull roles, such as off-tanks, buffers/debuffers, ...

 

I don't see at all how a tank/heal class would change anything for this problem.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Turshek

Most people that are willing to play a tank or healer (I have 3 50 tanks and 2 50 healers and all my 50 dps classes) aren't interested in going and being one of the main roles in a PUG group, if i'm going to tank or heal i'm going to do it with my guildies as I know it's going to be a smoother run, get yourself in a guild that is looking for dps and you won't have to worry about pugging tanks or healers cause its not gonna get any better on the shortage of them.

If you knew your mechanics, you'd know that energy regenerates much SLOWER when it's nearly depleted

You say "energy" but since you make no reference to scoundrels or operatives, I assume you mean "resource". The resource for sages and sorcerers is force, commandos use ammo, and mercenaries have heat.

 

Energy, ammo and heat behave in the way you stated. However, force is different. It regenerates at a constant rate over the entire range. However, sage's and sorcerer's abilities cost more relative to the regeneration rate, and they have much larger resource pools to begin with.

 

The overall effect is the same; you'll have to regulate your use of abilities or you'll run out, and it's better to be fully charged at the beginning of a fight. I just wanted to point out the difference you seemed to miss (understandable if you've never played a jedi or a sith).

i have tanks and healers on both rep and imp side, and ofc i have dps, my problem is that the guilds i run with already have well established healers and tanks on the 4 ops groups we have, so if i want to run end game (TFB HM EC NiM) i have to go DPS

And to finish, the question of responsibility, tanks think they have more, healers the same,

i heal TFB HM and was boring has hell, all know what they supost to do, basically no one was taking damage, so besides the tanks no much heals was necessary on the group, i tank it too, besides swiching bosses in regular intervals and activate my defences CD, is the same,

tell me where in top end game (TBH HM, EC NiM) a dps can just "play around" mess up a rotation? with the smaler enrage timer, they cant, where a dps can just stay in 1 place and dps? they have much more than just dps,tanks and healer can do everthing perfect but if the dps dont beat the enrage timer, or take down a core in time, kill adds,etc, you are not going anywhere.

tanks, healers and dps, all have their hands full in ops group, 1 fight is the tank, other fight is more heal intense, other is more a DPS race

 

^this is truth if you are not overgear for a op ofc, doing EV SM in full DG you can mess up everthing and still come up with a win

Edited February 18, 2013 by ErosGyne

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that there's far too many people playing DPS. Sure groups/ops consist of more DPS than Heals and Tanks but there is WAY too many people playing DPS compared to the others. What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

 

One short answer:

 

General population of players (those countless dpsers) is just to lazy to learn Tanking or healing, it way more difficoult than medicore dpser skill that is required to play them.

 

Yes, you have a lot of players that CAN tank or heal on their toons, they just dont because they dont WANT to.

 

So if you want to blame someone, dont blame game, classes are not that badly balanced, players are bad, thats all.

I would ask the OP how many tanks or healers he has before worrying about making new hybrid classes.

I play all three. I love my juggernaut tank. Am working on a guardian tank. I have a healer trooper. Love it. I also have an assassin. I enjoy the class. I never wanted to play a healer or a tank, but then I gave it a try. I am glad I did. It takes some getting used to, but I love the fact that I can do it.

What I would like to see is a class that basically can only heal/shield/gaurd or whatever you wish to call it.

 

I don't think too many people would want to play these classes because there is no option to switch to dps. Lots of people respec dps for dailies, or for fun, or while leveling, etc.

 

I primarily tank on my guardian and heal on my scoundrel, but I certainly appreciate the ability to respec dps.

Your question about why people don't tank DPS has already pretty much been answered. even those who like to tank of heal will often give up for periods of time due to simply horrible groups. this is more often then not due to DPS classes that don't learn how to play the game well enough (new players are the exception, i enjoy working with new players who have a good attitude). Until people stop being jerks in groups, and until groups start picking up some responsibility, there will probably always be a shortage of tanks and healers.

 

Now, your idea for a Healing only or tank only is interesting, but not effective for this game type. certainly is an interesting idea, if it was in the right environment. But the traditional environment we are in does not support it. No One would play it. due to the sheer necessity of class balance, the DPS of said class would be extremely low, and most people would not enjoy the trek from 1-50+. it's the same reason no other game that follows this design has pure "tank' classes or pure "heal" classes.

 

to me what would be more interesting would be to give EVERY class some healing abilities. they would have to balance things allot (so it probably won't happen either), but fi every class was responsible for keeping up part of the healing (including keeping themselves alive), then some of the burden would be spread out. but interestingly enough, most people actually enjoy the trinity. most people prefer to "just" DPS, or tank, or heal, and have the option to switch if they want (but not forced to).

One short answer:

 

General population of players (those countless dpsers) is just to lazy to learn Tanking or healing, it way more difficoult than medicore dpser skill that is required to play them.

 

Yes, you have a lot of players that CAN tank or heal on their toons, they just dont because they dont WANT to.

 

So if you want to blame someone, dont blame game, classes are not that badly balanced, players are bad, thats all.

 

It has nothing to do with being lazy.

Tanks generally have to take charge of a group, and in a pick up group that frequently feels like herding cats. Not everybody is comfortable with taking the lead role either.

Healers have a rough job, especially in the early flashpoints, and usually end up getting blamed for the mistakes other people make. My first experience as a healer was with a group where the tank did not realise he had to face the endboss away from the team and dpsers that did not know how to pick the adds off of the healer. So I was forced to try to heal the entire time through that encounter. As a level 17 commando with a heal and a half to my name. While the whole team kept yelling HEAL, and told me to heal them better after each wipe. It was almost enough to put me off healing in SWTOR for good. If not for the fact that after two team members left in a huff putting me on ignore and promising to get me banned, the last team member called in two guildies and the tank could explain what we had been doing wrong all along and show how to do it properly.

But, if not for that one player I would not have been a healer today in this game, and it would have had nothing to do with being lazy and everything with early level tanking and healing (and players) being pretty unforgiving in this game.

For me it's always been about DPS. However, my top DPS is my guardian which is read traditionally a tanking class, I also have a Jugg DPS, Commando DPS and a low level Mara and Sent. But then some friends convinced me to try tank on my Assasin and boy did I enjoy it instantly. See it is quite rewarding to have a huge operation boss facing you. Then I got into Operative healing and although its a big to get used to I'm enjoying it. So for me I can will do anything.

giving every subclass an option to switch between roles is not going to make more people heal or tank. people play what they enjoy playing, dps scoundrels don't chose scoundrel because they might switch to healing some day, they chose it because they like dps playstyle of that particular class.

 

tanks and healers are always in shorter supply in most games. at least in SWTOR they are super easy to level thanks to companions that compliment you, in other games, leveling either one could be like pulling teeth so even more people didn't play them. just wasn't fun for them.

 

the only way to encourage more people to heal and tank is to make it more fun for them.. and that would honestly require changing people themselves.

 

I have tanking characters. i don't pug on them. why? because my skin is not thick enough to deal with herding spitting cats. I find tanking challenging enough without having to deal with dps who like to knock things away from me, go for the one gold mob I barely have a grap on, while ignoring weak mobs that are off in a corner somewhere, pounding on a healer (so I end up bouncing around madly trying to grab them somehow, and get them off the healing, while dps merrily pulls more aggro making healer's job harder then it should be anyways) my nerves cannot handle mentality where if I stop even for a moment, things are pulled for me. my reflexes are no longer fast enough to compensate for it. to get me to tank pugs? I'd have to be able to set the pace that's comfortable for me, to have the rest of the group adjust to it and when/if I make mistakes, not to be cursed it. aka - change human nature. so I run with friends, becasue I know that friends will make it possible for me to actually have fun tanking.

 

I play healers because i love it and because i'm the most powerful person in a group. life and death in my hands. but it still requires more concentration then playing dps and there are many a moment where I curse at my screen, trying to keep people alive by the skin of my teeth.

Having been here since launch, and getting 5 50s geared to rakata or better in that time, I think everyone should try to play at least one class of each role. It really helps you to round out your knowledge of ops boss fights if you've done it as a tank, a healer, and a DPS, preferably, a melee and ranged DPS as well. It really helps you understand what the other people in your group are dealing with at the moment and will make you better able to react in the way that will most help your group. For example, if you deal with a phase that's very hard to heal as a healer then play a tank, it helps you realize that that is a moment you should use a defensive CD. It really does make the group run much more smoothly to have everyone understanding how the others are feeling at that time, and reacting accordingly.

I enjoy DPS, I also enjoy healing - to a certain extent. A lot of times it can be more stress than it's worth.

 

My main toons I play are a merc and a sniper. Sniper is the newest and find that I'm really liking the pure DPS aspect of that class.

 

However...with my Sniper there is nothing I can do to prevent a wipe, if the healer goes down for some reason, we are pretty much SOL. Also the main reason I tend to take cover near the healer to play bodyguard for them if needed.

 

But I cannot count the number of times that I've been able to prevent wipes by swapping out cylinders on my merc and healing a group with a dead healer or provided some extra support should they be overloaded.