The main reason Premades do Normal Warzones is so they can own everyone unfairly and feel like pros,

 

Cuz in rateds they'd actually have to WORK to feel like pros.

 

Premades don't do ranked, because ranked queues usually take 1h or more

First off, did I say RPers don't know how to PvP? No, Learn2read.

 

Second, what you said about getting owned by other premades proves my point even further: you decide to Premade on RP servers because you'd get totally trashed on a PvP Server, but on an RP server you'd get trashed less often, so thanks for that.

 

And you basically lost the entire argument when you mention you Premaded. No durr a Premader is gonna try defend themselves.

 

Wrong again peep. I decided to roll on an Rp server because I -like- Rp. I also happen to like PvP, and, and... wait for it... PvE *le gasp!* I took (and take) offense to your comment that the only reason a player like myself (Who enjoys having friends, grouping with said friends, and pvp'ing) would roll on an RP server is because they know they would get "owned" on a PvP server in a premade. Yet, it has nothing to do with why I rolled on an RP server, and thus is false.

 

Anyone wishing to "not get owned" by a premade, I would advise avoiding rolling on an RP server for that reason. You will still get owned, as RP-centric and PvP-capable are have nothing to do with each other.

 

I'd reply Learn2Debate, but I doubt it would help.

Wrong again peep. I decided to roll on an Rp server because I -like- Rp. I also happen to like PvP, and, and... wait for it... PvE *le gasp!* I took (and take) offense to your comment that the only reason a player like myself (Who enjoys having friends, grouping with said friends, and pvp'ing) would roll on an RP server is because they know they would get "owned" on a PvP server in a premade. Yet, it has nothing to do with why I rolled on an RP server, and thus is false.

 

Anyone wishing to "not get owned" by a premade, I would advise avoiding rolling on an RP server for that reason. You will still get owned, as RP-centric and PvP-capable are have nothing to do with each other.

 

I'd reply Learn2Debate, but I doubt it would help.

 

I'm truly lolling at that 'Learn2Debate' remark, because I noticed you didn't argue with me saying you lost the entire argument when you mentioned you Premaded, because you know it's true. Hypocritmuch?

 

At any rate, lemme just get on with owning you once again:

 

1st. Did I say the only reason YOU choose a RP server is because you can own in Premades? No, I said you PREMADE in an RP Server cuz you know you can own. Again, Learn2Read.

 

2nd. Au contrier, it does matter what type of Server you play on as to how PvP will work. PvP Servers are always gonna be jam-packed with PvP pros (Obviously) therefor you will get owned alot. RP Servers have less PvP pros, therefor you won't get owned as much.

 

3rd. If you rolled an RP Server for the RP and PvE, but you 'like' to PvP, then why do you Premade? Premades are generally used by full-PvPers (that's why Premades are always made up of Full WH Geared players). So would you like to change your comment to: I 'like' to RP and PvE, but I 'Love' to PvP and Premade so as to own PUGs who want a fair game.

 

I look forward to seeing your next reply so I can own you once again.

I'm truly lolling at that 'Learn2Debate' remark, because I noticed you didn't argue with me saying you lost the entire argument when you mentioned you Premaded, because you know it's true. Hypocritmuch?

 

At any rate, lemme just get on with owning you once again:

 

1st. Did I say the only reason YOU choose a RP server is because you can own in Premades? No, I said you PREMADE in an RP Server cuz you know you can own. Again, Learn2Read.

 

2nd. Au contrier, it does matter what type of Server you play on as to how PvP will work. PvP Servers are always gonna be jam-packed with PvP pros (Obviously) therefor you will get owned alot. RP Servers have less PvP pros, therefor you won't get owned as much.

 

3rd. If you rolled an RP Server for the RP and PvE, but you 'like' to PvP, then why do you Premade? Premades are generally used by full-PvPers (that's why Premades are always made up of Full WH Geared players). So would you like to change your comment to: I 'like' to RP and PvE, but I 'Love' to PvP and Premade so as to own PUGs who want a fair game.

 

I look forward to seeing your next reply so I can own you once again.

 

*rolls eyes* I feel very owned at the moment. Your words of ownage make me shiver in my Pj's.

 

1. The reason someone on an RP server would "premade" is to play with friends. It really has nothing to do with winning or losing. There is a disconnect between the concept of what server you are on, and whether you premade. My premades typically include 3 of my friends, (class/spec/gear not even consider) teaming up with me, and queue'ing. Occassionally we do ranked (though that is not the topic of this thread) and take into consideration our party composition. However, to refute your point: We do not play premades on an RP server because as to not get owned on a PvP server. We rolled on an rp server (seperately mind you), we met, we became friends, and we now we play together.

 

2. No, PvP servers are not (obviously) packed with PvP pros. As someone else mentioned, PvP server's defining feature is non-consenual OWPvP. Many PvPers absolutely hate being bugged mid quest/daily. Many see PvP servers as nothing but gankfest and 12 year olds. Not that these are absolutes, but a PvP server does not equal Elite PvPers. It also attracts several suck-tastic players, who want to think they are elite. Your information here is false.

 

3. No, I rolled on an RP server to RP. I like PvE and PvP, and I do both in equal measure. Shocking as it may seem, I don't see the point in only playing half of the game, by choosing either PvE or PvP.

 

Premades are not always made up of full WH, Min-Maxed players. I've been with my friends from recruit on, and done just fine. We win (most of the time) because we're coordinated, decently skilled, and as gamers actually bother to ask ourselves "Why did we lose? What can we improve?" after a defeat.

*rolls eyes* I feel very owned at the moment. Your words of ownage make me shiver in my Pj's.

 

1. The reason someone on an RP server would "premade" is to play with friends. It really has nothing to do with winning or losing. There is a disconnect between the concept of what server you are on, and whether you premade. My premades typically include 3 of my friends, (class/spec/gear not even consider) teaming up with me, and queue'ing. Occassionally we do ranked (though that is not the topic of this thread) and take into consideration our party composition. However, to refute your point: We do not play premades on an RP server because as to not get owned on a PvP server. We rolled on an rp server (seperately mind you), we met, we became friends, and we now we play together.

 

2. No, PvP servers are not (obviously) packed with PvP pros. As someone else mentioned, PvP server's defining feature is non-consenual OWPvP. Many PvPers absolutely hate being bugged mid quest/daily. Many see PvP servers as nothing but gankfest and 12 year olds. Not that these are absolutes, but a PvP server does not equal Elite PvPers. It also attracts several suck-tastic players, who want to think they are elite. Your information here is false.

 

3. No, I rolled on an RP server to RP. I like PvE and PvP, and I do both in equal measure. Shocking as it may seem, I don't see the point in only playing half of the game, by choosing either PvE or PvP.

 

Premades are not always made up of full WH, Min-Maxed players. I've been with my friends from recruit on, and done just fine. We win (most of the time) because we're coordinated, decently skilled, and as gamers actually bother to ask ourselves "Why did we lose? What can we improve?" after a defeat.

 

I bet you spend more time in /say than actually PvPing

you know, if they added a solo queue option for rateds then everyone could queue up for rateds and it would be basically the same as normal wzs but we all get more ranked comms....would be a win win. Might as well just eliminate normals. Edited October 18, 2012 by Darth-Rammstein

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

I think it'd be a good idea for BW to implement a system similar to what the older versions of Call of Duty had for their online game play; there was an option where you could only NOT queue with a team- it was called Mercenary Team Death Match. This ensured that everyone in the group was a pug, and you wouldn't pug a group that was a premade. This made is much more enjoyable to be a solo queue-er as far as not -getting-the-crap-kicked-out-of-me goes.

 

That being said.. I strictly PVP all day on all of my characters, only spending about half the time with a premade- and I have never ever waited 45 minutes for a queue pop. Maybe you should consider moving to a server with a higher population, or possibly relogging when your queue is taking too long. Sometimes WZ queue's get buggy, and logging in and out usually speeds up your next queue.

why should those of us in guilds not queue up together. It only makes sense that we queue together since we like to pvp and look to become a well known pvp guild at some point. It's practice we get used to working together now in nonranked wz we will be ready for ranked wz. If you don't like running into partial premades like us then join a guild with ppl that like to pvp or quit whining.

Double post Edited October 18, 2012 by Exgrunt

I played 40 matches as a pug last 3 days i played. won 32 lost 8.

so what was your point. I pugged all 40 matches. went up against premades atleast in 20 matches. I dont pay attention for this as I don't care who I play. only care about winning.

 

So in roughly 2 hours you managed to compile stats over last 3 days but didnt feel the need to share before someone posted their own stats first?

 

Yeah sorry but not buying what your selling at all

 

not at all

Premades don't do ranked, because ranked queues usually take 1h or more

 

and why do the ranked ques take a hour?

 

Because all the premades in the unranked warzones!

 

See how that works?

 

If they start queing up for ranked, it would start to pop more!

 

But this isnt about challenge and competition for them.

 

Its about greifing and ruining others fun.

Hardly a new concept for what we once called PKers.

I will guarentee you 90% of the warzone pre made greifers are the same people that routinely rolled through Ilum heroic areas flagged trying to exploit a bug to flag unflagged players and then kill them.

 

That got taken away and suddenly the pre made issue explodes

 

Simple solution is que the pre mades in a pre made que to face each other and may the best team win.

 

Guarentee you after a couple weeks we will suddenly see 2 man groups trying to load into same WZs as other 2 man groups to get around the anti pre made code so they can once again GREIF those weaker.

 

The real solution to this problem is a 4 parter!

 

1) Make the pre made vrs pre made warzone.

 

2) Then apply a 1225 expertise limit to the current solo que (equiping items after you enter that take you over the limit result in immediate wz removal and 30 minute lock out for attempting to get around the limit)

 

3) Then create a second solo/partner wz for those with 1226 expertise and higher (no removal or lock out if you downgrade)

 

4) and finally have the ranked War Zone as it currently exists (though personally I think that should also have a 1225 expertise minimum for entering players to stop the farming of ranked coms by just being farmed)

 

Do these 4 easy steps and all problems surrounding pre mades and gear are eliminated.

And doing these 4 would actually massively improve the current solo warzone 100 fold and EA might actually convince F2P players the PVP worth it. Cause right now I dont see ANYONE upgradeing from F2P to subscription for the PVP WZs as it stands now.

 

But we all know those who so stringently defend their right to farm right now will be screaming bloody murder the first time they rolled by a pre made of equal gear and status.

 

Cause this issue has never been about competition or challenge

The thread title should have been " Pitting Premades against PUGs is ruining non-ranked war zones" in order to hold some value. I'm playing the game since January and I have 4 (each main class) characters at level 50 and I PvPed with each and everyone for quite a good amount. Not bragging just trying to point that, although I don't consider myself a good PvPer, I have enough experience to identify when something is completely Fubar. And it's completely Fubar to put a 4 man pre-made with coms and experienced players against a random PUG team even if it has experienced players. The ability to call for protection, heals and reinforcements in real time and over voice it's very powerful and can be match only by the other team same ability. Two simple solutions can be applied here, one (which I don't particularly like) it's to not allow groups of more then 2 to enter a war zone against a full PUG team. Of course teams of 3-4 should be pitted against similar groups. Or the second, which I find the appropriate way to handle this, is to add in-game voice communication (optional of course) for all groups at least for WZ purposes. I mean, if CCPGames can have that for EVE Online, BioWare can surely add that for SW:TOR.

 

Edited: Also getting some brains in that match-making system would go a long way to alleviate some of the problems. I mean try to balance the teams as you do in the PvE group finder. Would the queue timers go up a bit? Maybe at beginning, but give people nice, balanced, fun to fight matches and more and more will queue up so you should expect a shortening of those timers over medium and long horizon of time.

Edited October 18, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

why should those of us in guilds not queue up together. It only makes sense that we queue together since we like to pvp and look to become a well known pvp guild at some point. It's practice we get used to working together now in nonranked wz we will be ready for ranked wz. If you don't like running into partial premades like us then join a guild with ppl that like to pvp or quit whining.

 

If you read the thread you will see that no one is saying you shouldnt be able to play with your guild/premade, only that you shouldnt be able to queue against solo players and should be playing only against other pre-mades or groups.

Premades don't do ranked, because ranked queues usually take 1h or more

 

Which proves the point that there are few pre-made players (minority) who take the fun out of the game for non-pre made players (the majority).

Try presenting a business plan to the banks based of upsetting the majority of customers to keep a few happy - I,m betting they would throw you out of the bank if they could stop laughing long enough.

true. i agree with OP that bioware need to make non-ranked more accessible and fun to play for people who are not geared. the recruit gear = ****. i have a full wh 50 and a new 50. i must say i enjoy my full wh 50 and hate pvp on my new 50 because there is just no way to gear him or win him any matches and all the matches are just frustration.

or maybe you should just get some of your guildies together and start pvping as a team. Like i said before its great practice to start a partial premade team early and get used to working with each other. I'll put it this way my guildies and I have only been pvping for a week with our low lvl toons and most of the time we don't even have to talk to each other we just kno what the rest are gonna do. Get that practice and you can be almost unstoppable. There are definitely times where even as a partial premade you get your butts handed to you at that. When you lose get over it and move on quit trying to blame others.

there are 2 things BW can do to balance pvp out one is to match premades vs premades only and pugs vs pugs the other route is to use a group finder system to balance the teams by roles like group finder does so each team has a equal amount of roles on each side.

or maybe you should just get some of your guildies together and start pvping as a team.

 

So you should be in a premade in order to enjoy the game. Ok, got that.

 

You solo'ing "casuals" over there? Go home! This is not the game you are looking for.

or maybe you should just get some of your guildies together and start pvping as a team. Like i said before its great practice to start a partial premade team early and get used to working with each other. I'll put it this way my guildies and I have only been pvping for a week with our low lvl toons and most of the time we don't even have to talk to each other we just kno what the rest are gonna do. Get that practice and you can be almost unstoppable. There are definitely times where even as a partial premade you get your butts handed to you at that. When you lose get over it and move on quit trying to blame others.

 

Everybody should try to enter PvP in a pre-made, I give you that. Is good fun and really unleashes the game potential at end-game. But nobody should be forced to do it by the fear of meeting such a pre-made and being stomped in a utterly frustrating and striped of fun match.

Had such an experience short time ago while facing a 4 man pre-made with my latest char that is wearing mixed WH/BM gear with the main and offhand being WH (fully augmented). I;ve experienced death while being stun-locked in that match more that I had it happen in weeks and also 6 seconds TTK. Nothing to say, those guys were all good players and would have loved to learn a trick or two from them but I was too busy re spawning.

 

Bottom line, pre-mades are a good and fun thing to do when PvPing but one shouldn't be forced to enter one to PvP in a balanced environment.

Edited October 19, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

meh, i do pre-made with the guild but it only 4 people tops. sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but it is fustrating when you que solo. i think that bioware should limit pug ques to 2 person groups only so you can still pvp with a friend but not as 1/2 the team.

 

That would definitely be the solution and probably an easy one for the programmers to adjust. Going up against 3-5 people in WH in the same guild when the solo's I'm with may even be wearing PVE gear is a huge waste of everyones time.

 

Also, think about the people like myself who are 'stuck in battlemaster gear' because they cannot get enough wins to get ranked warzone commendations to purchase WH. From this thread you can sorta sense that people accumulated all their WH before many of the server mergers.

Edited October 19, 2012 by HuaRya
clarity

Which proves the point that there are few pre-made players (minority) who take the fun out of the game for non-pre made players (the majority).

Try presenting a business plan to the banks based of upsetting the majority of customers to keep a few happy - I,m betting they would throw you out of the bank if they could stop laughing long enough.

 

They can't limit certain people just because they play better than others.

That would create waaaaay more problems than what it is now

So you should be in a premade in order to enjoy the game. Ok, got that.

 

You solo'ing "casuals" over there? Go home! This is not the game you are looking for.

 

There are 1.5 mil casual subs go home.

 

Are you happy in game with your premade, bro?

This issue isn't anything new, and has been brought up in countless threads over the past 6+ months at least.

 

The solution is the same as it has always been. Bioware needs to separate group and single queues, and the only way they can support that is by implementing cross-server queues. They apparently do not have the means to do this currently, though they haven't adequately explained why.

 

Given all the fundamental problems with Ranked WZs (this too has been explained in great detail in numerous posts), premades have become more common in regular WZs. The issue here isn't that premades are "cowards" or they only want to farm PUGs all day, it's that many of these premades are partial premades (a single group of 4 players), but you'll often see two partial premades in the same WZ. These are often players who merely want to play together, and/or who feel it necessary to group up given how horrible most PUGs can be and that the other faction is also queueing up with groups, and finally because Ranked WZs are simply not viable (and typically not fun). Speaking from personal experience, my guild on my server queues up in groups primarily because most of the PUGs are just that bad and because we're constantly facing double (partial) or full premades from the Republic side. When we do queue up for Ranked, it's when we have 16 people on so that we can form two Ranked teams to play against each other. We don't win trade, and we shift around the teams to keep things even as far as skill and class composition go. Our scrimmages are often intense, close matches and it's the only time that we actually have fun doing Ranked WZs.

 

While none of this helps the solo queue players (PUGs), it's the unfortunate reality of WZ PvP in this game. My suggestion is to group up with players who are semi-competent and geared. They don't need to be from the same guild. That alone will reduce the amount of losses you suffer because of either undergeard players or those who are simply inept at PvP. The other suggestion is to gear up your alts with your main by sending the PvP mods via legacy gear. That way you never have to step foot in a WZ wearing Recruit gear. That's what I did, and not only did it make my alt's transition into lvl 50 PvP more smooth, I wasn't ever a liability in matches because of my gear. If you don't like either of those suggestions, or you simply prefer to solo queue, then you might consider avoiding PvP altogether until BW pulls their collective heads out of their arses and figures out how to implement cross-server queues so they can do things like queue separation and gear-based match-making.

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

Agreed.

There are 1.5 mil casual subs go home.

 

Are you happy in game with your premade, bro?

 

The thing these kiddies don't understand is that when those 1.5 mil "casuals" un-sub (or leave the game when f2p) that SWTOR dies and they turn off the servers.

 

War-Zones weren't made just for the 5% of the players with low self-esteem that think it's "fun" to make premades of fully augmented WH-gear players and boot-stomp fresh 50s in recruit gear all day long.

 

EA/BW can either fix pvp to make it enjoyable for the 95% of players that are "casuals" or they can keep it the way it is now and watch as the playerbase & revenue continue to decline at an ever-increasing rate.