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Maintenance: October 24th, 2017

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Maintenance: October 24th, 2017
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Costello's Avatar


Costello
10.30.2017 , 02:47 PM | #421
It comes down a little to how much we think the devs read the forums. Personally from what I have seen I think the only time Keith comes to the forums is to post that he comes to the forums and reads what people are writing.

But if we hold on to the belief that they want better communication, they want thoughts and views etc then the my way or the high way approach by anyone is often a mistake. Be it the player shouting 'The Only thing that will save this game is GROUP Content' or the development team that opts that despite no one wanting it a patch that is nothing but nerfs and GSF balancing passes is going to bring people back.

Now I don't know why the levels of content have been so bad this year, I am fairly certain that no yellow posts are going to own up to it. If anything they will sell it as a plus and say how 5.6 is the most content they have released all year! What I can say is that you have to be a new kind of stupid if you have really limited content to focus on a limitied subset of content. Now I have enjoyed GSF but it is subset of PvP in a game marketed for story, where PvP is pointless instanced battles that have no meaning in the game. So who in their right mind invests time and money in something that is a sub set of PvP, when you have only produced 2 Op bosses and 1 story chapter (flashpoints no counting only story chapter we got was 5.2) all year.

If you have limited resources, offer content everyone can play, offer that which gives most bang for your investment. Don't spend months working on stuff that only 10% of the population enjoys or experiences. Id you can produce 4 story chapters for one flashpoint go story, if you can do 2 flashpoints per op boss go flashpoints.

Can I understand this no, at least with Kotfe and Kotet I understood what was the design plan. It makes me wonder if the same misleading information is being used to push through these choices.

EA: Hello BW we called you here to help explain some things, when you proposed the content roadmap to us for 2017 you said it would get more players.
BW: Yeah well I spoke to the design guys I should have said 'more players to leave'.
EA: Would you call that lying?
BW: No way, if that was lying then what was posted on the fall roadmap about CXP perks would be lying too. But I have updated what I previously wrote to say more players to leave, don't you lot look foolish thinking it was more players to subscribe, fools.
EA: Okay..... Well when you proposed your roadmap in 2017 it had significantly more in it than has been delivered.
BW: Yeah well it turned out while we were working on the content plan we found we could offer no content and that way work from home which as we all know is code for not working.
EA: Why didn't you tell us before you weren't going to release much content. It clearly made out from your original plan for the game there would be more content.
BW: Well we wanted an unbiased reaction to the lack of content, if we told you beforehand it wouldn't have been a reaction to what we did but on your perceived lack of content, which would have been accurate but yeah...
EA: So you lied to us?
BW: No way, if that was lying then what we did to the West Coast people would be lying as well.
EA: Why do you hate tor, why did you come to us and tell us you could make things good, that you could increase subscribers. Do you hate tor or is it simply incompetence.
BW: A little from column A and a little from Column B.

ExarSun's Avatar


ExarSun
10.30.2017 , 03:15 PM | #422
At this point I am beginning to wonder if it is deliberate ( this includes deliberate shrinking of resources) or just lack of vision for the game and incompetence...I seriously hope its the latter....Seeing as how there is nothing us players can do....i can only hope that SW license gets revoked from EA....its no more than they deserve for bringing this game to a dark hole. Its not enough that we havent got a SW RPG for years, but they had to ruin SWTOR too.

HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
10.30.2017 , 03:20 PM | #423
Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
It comes down a little to how much we think the devs read the forums.
Yeah. You're right. If you believe the false idea that they don't read the forums despite their direct responses to many of the topics raised in the forums and elsewhere, then you would have such a cynical view of BW.

To everyone complaining about the lack of content: You have no idea what the cost is for the purchase of a single new server, let alone five. No dying game puts forth that kind of money. They very well likely had to choose between getting new and improved servers, and a huge content update. And if anyone says the content is more important, let me ask you this: Are you willing to put up with server queue issues becoming more frequent, among other problems that will soon show up, like missing items or even characters never to be recovered?

The fact that they're putting out what they are at the same time is a good sign, and a good thing. Personally, I'm willing to be mature, accept the situation, and not rage quit over what I *think* is going on, especially since I am not there. Are you?
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ExarSun's Avatar


ExarSun
10.30.2017 , 03:26 PM | #424
Who are you going to put on those shiny servers as you say...when a good portion the people left already because of the lack of new content....others left because servers closed in their region....Nothing positive can be dug from server merges, they ever mean only one thing.

Even if content is sacrificed for servers, they may as well have communicated that...but seeing as how some stuff from the roadmap are not how they were written...well..

Costello's Avatar


Costello
10.30.2017 , 03:34 PM | #425
Quote: Originally Posted by HKtheindomitable View Post
Yeah. You're right. If you believe the false idea that they don't read the forums despite their direct responses to many of the topics raised in the forums and elsewhere, then you would have such a cynical view of BW.

To everyone complaining about the lack of content: You have no idea what the cost is for the purchase of a single new server, let alone five. No dying game puts forth that kind of money. They very well likely had to choose between getting new and improved servers, and a huge content update. And if anyone says the content is more important, let me ask you this: Are you willing to put up with server queue issues becoming more frequent, among other problems that will soon show up, like missing items or even characters never to be recovered?

The fact that they're putting out what they are at the same time is a good sign, and a good thing. Personally, I'm willing to be mature, accept the situation, and not rage quit over what I *think* is going on, especially since I am not there. Are you?
Since no one else has an idea what the servers cost, why don't you tell us?

Are you suggesting that they removed the west coast data center at additional cost to themselves. That they have made the game unplayable for some people and its costing them money to do it?

Are you further suggesting that this investment in additional servers while producing no content was a good idea. You think they invested lots of money in additional servers but thought the best thing to do along side this was not add any content and just spend time and resources on nerfs and gsf fixes. You talk about issues, my ping has gotten slightly worse since the merger and I never had any problems before. I don't even know what this upgrade was or how it is meant to effect my gameplay, despite asking in the forums and being ignored. Do you know what they did or is this you basing everything on what you think happened? You asking me which I'd prefer, well since I have seen no benefit from the server upgrades and have seen very little content, you know what give me the content or show me how this upgrade has improved my experience.

As for if they read the forums. Lets see how much of a response this thread gets to judge how much reading and responding they do. Turns out you can write anything on the forums I once found a short cut while I was sailing round the world in a boat made entirely of Osmium. So just because I write something doesn't make it true. Unless you really believe that in which case this must be the most powerful magical forum, if so:

There will be a new expansion launched with down time on the 31/10/2017 which will include new class stories, the return of all missing companions in a full and meaningful way and 3 fully exploitable planets with daily areas and repeatable content.

Here is looking forward to the expansion tomorrow. Though I shall not be surprised when it doesn't.

HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
10.30.2017 , 03:35 PM | #426
Quote: Originally Posted by ExarSun View Post
Who are you going to put on those shiny servers as you say...when a good portion the people left already because of the lack of new content....others left because servers closed in their region....Nothing positive can be dug from server merges, they ever mean only one thing.
Your post makes no sense. All of our toons are being transferred. Whether you want them to or not. My entire guild will be there as will many others. There will also be new players that I look forward to meeting and play with. Players come and go. Some QQ away and never return. I'm not going to leave because someone cries "end of the game". I've been here since second week early access, and have been hearing that since launch. Guess what? It's still here.

Just remember it's the negative attitude that shoos new players away, and keeps old players away. So good job on you for hurting it yourself instead of finding the positives.
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HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
10.30.2017 , 04:14 PM | #427
Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
Since no one else has an idea what the servers cost, why don't you tell us?
Considering I don't work there, I cannot say the exact amount. But if you use Google, you can find the cost of a server can run, assuming a game like this, anywhere from $5k-100k per rack, assuming a single rack for each server, which is unlikely. Again, I cannot say the exact cost as I know not the exact type used (yes, it does matter). This doesn't account for the cost of running and maintaining it.


Quote:
Are you further suggesting that this investment in additional servers while producing no content was a good idea. You think they invested lots of money in additional servers but thought the best thing to do along side this was not add any content and just spend time and resources on nerfs and gsf fixes.
Ah, so your definition of "no content" is really "no major expansion". Because there *is* content: new WZ and GSF map, and new FP.

Quote:
You talk about issues, my ping has gotten slightly worse since the merger and I never had any problems before. I don't even know what this upgrade was or how it is meant to effect my gameplay, despite asking in the forums and being ignored. Do you know what they did or is this you basing everything on what you think happened? You asking me which I'd prefer, well since I have seen no benefit from the server upgrades and have seen very little content, you know what give me the content or show me how this upgrade has improved my experience.
I can tell you what has happened. It is not what you think happened. The server transfer hasn't happened yet. Not even close. We're not in the new servers. I know that because I carefully read the Devtracker. The thing they did recently was consolidated the East and West coast servers. Why, I'm not entirely sure. I have some guesses, but I won't voice them. As for the ping, I was dropped by my ISP (which is illegal for an ISP to do over complaints) and was forced to use Satellite. Believe me, I know that pain. There will be East and West servers again, this current setup is temporary.

Quote:
As for if they read the forums. Lets see how much of a response this thread gets to judge how much reading and responding they do. Turns out you can write anything on the forums I once found a short cut while I was sailing round the world in a boat made entirely of Osmium. So just because I write something doesn't make it true. Unless you really believe that in which case this must be the most powerful magical forum, if so:

There will be a new expansion launched with down time on the 31/10/2017 which will include new class stories, the return of all missing companions in a full and meaningful way and 3 fully exploitable planets with daily areas and repeatable content.

Here is looking forward to the expansion tomorrow. Though I shall not be surprised when it doesn't.
I don't follow. Your point is what? How do you determine if they do or do not read it. The only legal way for you to see if they do or not is to be there. Otherwise you have to use illegal means. Also understand, they will not always post in the thread. Aside from the fact that they have a life outside their job, they have other things to do in the building, and I'm sure they have learned when to post, and when not to post.

Side note: I could list all of the possible reasons for things that I am not sure of due to not being there, but if I did, this post would be a page long.
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Costello's Avatar


Costello
10.30.2017 , 05:14 PM | #428
Quote: Originally Posted by HKtheindomitable View Post
Considering I don't work there, I cannot say the exact amount. But if you use Google, you can find the cost of a server can run, assuming a game like this, anywhere from $5k-100k per rack, assuming a single rack for each server, which is unlikely. Again, I cannot say the exact cost as I know not the exact type used (yes, it does matter). This doesn't account for the cost of running and maintaining it.
I would love to believe that the servers have been upgraded by how most people think of that word. To be told upgraded servers have allowed for improved graphics, improved gameplay, more dynamic combat, complete environments with night and day, swimming, wind effects, npcs going about their daily lives. So far however aside from being told the servers are being upgraded I have seen nothing to suggest there is any end game benefit. I'd be all for that, get the foundation secure and then build on content on open world pvp, decent space combat etc etc. But as far as I an see these upgrades are in name only, hope to be proven wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by HKtheindomitable View Post
Ah, so your definition of "no content" is really "no major expansion". Because there *is* content: new WZ and GSF map, and new FP.
It is simply to paraphrase so as not to constantly say that I don't think 1 story chapter, 1 flashpoint, 2 strongholds and 2 op bosses in 7 months is lots of content, nor do I think it is sufficient content that anyone should be happy. Once again I am over simplifying, simply for space, this is part of the service industry where you have resources you have shareholders and you have customers in this case both paying, nonpaying and potential. Whoever came up with the idea of producing so little content in a year should not be thinking that was a good tactical move. If its a result of server mergers/upgrades fine, but then explain how the upgrades benefit the user as otherwise the end result is simply not much content.



Quote: Originally Posted by HKtheindomitable View Post
I can tell you what has happened. It is not what you think happened. The server transfer hasn't happened yet. Not even close. We're not in the new servers. I know that because I carefully read the Devtracker. The thing they did recently was consolidated the East and West coast servers. Why, I'm not entirely sure. I have some guesses, but I won't voice them. As for the ping, I was dropped by my ISP (which is illegal for an ISP to do over complaints) and was forced to use Satellite. Believe me, I know that pain. There will be East and West servers again, this current setup is temporary.
My understanding is the move to the new data centers and upgrades took place last week and that is the upgrade you are experience today. The next stage is to transfer the existing servers to their new server destinations. Things will not improve for Australian or West Coast players, there will not be any West Coast located servers and come the 8th other than losing names and having hopefully 3 times more people to play with there will be no change to the experience from what you have now.

Or I should say no positive change, no improved graphics etc, may be more latency as more people are about, maybe longer queues to kill stuff and short GF queues. But ultiamtely what you have now is what it will be in a weeks time. If this isn't the case best tell all those West Coast players who are saying they have to quit.



Quote: Originally Posted by HKtheindomitable View Post
I don't follow. Your point is what? How do you determine if they do or do not read it. The only legal way for you to see if they do or not is to be there. Otherwise you have to use illegal means. Also understand, they will not always post in the thread. Aside from the fact that they have a life outside their job, they have other things to do in the building, and I'm sure they have learned when to post, and when not to post.

Side note: I could list all of the possible reasons for things that I am not sure of due to not being there, but if I did, this post would be a page long.
My experience has been that whenever a development team starts losing subscribers they come on the forums to post how they will increase communication. They then cherry pick some stupid questions that are answered elsewhere to respond to and then ignore anything that is difficult. Without checking dev tracker, if any post has been responded to I'd wager it is either asking for something that is found somewhere else on the forum, insipidly fawning or utterly pointless. That or when maintenance is.

While actually questions are ignored, take the changes to utility where Carnage is being told that ferocity will be 2 stacks, but this doesn't effect the target dps cause they should never have got more than 2 hits in the window. Raising the question what about alacrity and berserk where even without clipping 3 hits could be achieved, is this saying that berserk was not used ever in the ferocity window to reach the target dps, that seems crazy but instead of answering that, I'm sure 'so when server mergers happen, what server will I end up on.' would get an answer.

My experience has been more or better communication is a gimmick. I think they would rather tell people after they shut down the west coast server than before because they have no interest in being upfront and honest. And that better communication is the same as thanking people for their patience, its just something you say not something they have any interest to act on.

Lxndra's Avatar


Lxndra
10.31.2017 , 09:55 AM | #429
So... we are halfway through the "give us two weeks" to iron out the "kinks" and "performance issues."

Anyone from the West Coast or APAC experiencing better lag times? I've received no responses to any of my lag reports - not even the automated generic "check your settings" drivel that customer service sends out.

DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
10.31.2017 , 10:39 AM | #430
I won't know until I log in tonight to see if enough of our raid team is still around to get a raid going. (We've manage 1 raid in the last 2 weeks and a couple HM FPs the night we had 4.)

FWIW, the lag spikes in the FPs were huge. Periodic spikes over 1000, a few over 1200 and at least one over 1600. Oddly enough 4 players from 3 different areas all reporting the same spike at the same time. So it seems to me they have some server issues to iron out.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.
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