Jump to content

Zorn and Toth enrage timer issues on HM


Recommended Posts

We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .

The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.

Melee dps are backing out during Toth's frenzy, tanks are tank swapping, no one is getting hit in the red circle phase, cleanse is going off immediately, bosses are far enough apart, fearful debuff is under control.

WHAT IS GOING ON!>!?!?!?!?!

 

My reason is if we constantly get to 10% on both and hit the enrage every time we are missing some dps.

 

ideas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our group used to do Toth with a sorc healer and melee and sorc would stand in the frenzy getting healing by the puddle. but if you are still getting enrage from Zorn, I'd say you need to get your dps better gear. are they optimised and augmented rakata / blackhole? or just straight normal rakata?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .

The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.

Melee dps are backing out during Toth's frenzy, tanks are tank swapping, no one is getting hit in the red circle phase, cleanse is going off immediately, bosses are far enough apart, fearful debuff is under control.

WHAT IS GOING ON!>!?!?!?!?!

 

My reason is if we constantly get to 10% on both and hit the enrage every time we are missing some dps.

 

ideas?

 

First of all, I hope this doesn't come across too harsh. We spent a while on HM Toth and Zorn and only really got the rest instance down pat a couple of weeks after TFB hit. HM EC is a tough instance, its very mechanic heavy and punishing. A huge step up from even NiM EV or KP and its ok to have trouble with it, I know plenty of people who are still working on it.

 

Honestly, gear is not even close to an indication of good DPS. I've seen fresh 50s in Recruit blow BH geared DPS out of the water. Get all your DPS to run a couple of parses and see how they measure up to each other so you know who needs work.

 

With your strat, the only way I can see you guys getting more DPS is by swapping the melee on Zorn when Toth is Frenzying rather than having them stand out. Also make sure all DPS are popping their relics and adrenals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, for my guild who has the same problem, its Itemization and a slight rotation problem. I personally can't coach on rotation but correct Itemization is a big problem for some people who are not.... Algebraically inclined. Thats not saying they arent smart, its just they dont look at numbers the same way.

 

Rakata gear from mods/enhancements/Armorings is sometimes better then BH gear. Many dps class BH sets *cough Guardian cough* is not balanced correctly.

 

What I mean by that is that the Mods from BH gear does not have the stats that you want, even though its the next tier of gear.

 

For example, many Armorings have endurance as their highest stat. That is good for Tanks, not good for dps. If you have the incorrect Endurance armorings on a dps class, you could be losing 100-200 of your mainstat if you just leave the Endurance armorings in. If you swap them out, then swap out other pieces of gear that had high endurance, your mainstat could go up possibly 500 points.

 

There was a sentinel in my guild that has all BH gear, but he has lower strength and power as well as imbalanced crit and surge compared to my columi/rakata guardian. Why? Cause I mix and matched my gear while he just kept taking the next armor upgrade depending on the set "name".

 

Look at the stats, not at the name on the gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .

The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.

Melee dps are backing out during Toth's frenzy, tanks are tank swapping, no one is getting hit in the red circle phase, cleanse is going off immediately, bosses are far enough apart, fearful debuff is under control.

WHAT IS GOING ON!>!?!?!?!?!

 

My reason is if we constantly get to 10% on both and hit the enrage every time we are missing some dps.

 

ideas?

 

Are you actually hitting the enrage timer, or are you hitting the sub 10% and death soft enrages?

 

Both of their damage is increased sub 10%, so after the swap we all turn and kill Toth. With the Toth dead Zorn gets an additional buff, which will smash a fully itemised Dreadguard tank. What you need to do is taunt swap and and kite him whilst the DPS finish him off. Then you just have the handler to kill. Just need to face him away from the rest of the op's group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in these type of situation, best is to have a combatlog of your group.

Ask your raider to submit their combat log to a site that merge them (such as askmrrobot) and analyse the log.

 

It's hard to say where the problem come from, if correctly optimise, a full augmented BH group should easily meet the DPS requirement, whatever the class composition may be, the encounter is balance around rakata gear.

 

Lack of DPS could come from

- incorrect stats priority on individual

- incorrect or imperfect rotation

- non optimized boss strategy.

 

 

Some tips

- make sure to put all dps in the same group to take advantage of the inspiration/bloodlust

- make sure, you have no stop dps included in your strat, including the 60 and 20% spike phase.

- make sure you have all debuff (armor debuff) and buff in your group.

- make sure everyone using stim and adrenal.

- Practice DPS on the move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can give you the perspective of a Mara on this fight and I'd advise against the meele dps moving away from Toth at any point during the fight. The only reason I ever come of Toth is if his % in comparison to Zorn is to low and at that point I normally jump to Zorn to help out as I rarely have fearful.

 

As a meele imo you lose far to much time if you come out during Toth beserks, my advice for the meele is to pop Saber Ward just before he does so and that should eat up a fair chunk of Toth's first beserk stomp. After that keep up cloak of pain as much as you can and even be ready to use Undying rage if healing is that much of a issue during that phase. Best option healing wise is to have a Sorc put down an aoe healing circle next to Toth for the meele to loiter in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .

The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.

Melee dps are backing out during Toth's frenzy, tanks are tank swapping, no one is getting hit in the red circle phase, cleanse is going off immediately, bosses are far enough apart, fearful debuff is under control.

WHAT IS GOING ON!>!?!?!?!?!

 

My reason is if we constantly get to 10% on both and hit the enrage every time we are missing some dps.

 

ideas?

 

Get moxparser for your 4 DPS. Check the DPS after the fight (you can use torparse). Any DPS < 1200 is a problem, and should optimize their stuff/gameplay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .

The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.

 

Without seeing the stats on your players, it's hard to say that you're geared correctly.

Just having full BH augmented gear doesn't mean your'e any good (not trying to sound harsh).

That being said, this fight can easily be a pain, keep at it, make sure your dps players are putting out enough dps and you'll get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without seeing the stats on your players, it's hard to say that you're geared correctly.

Just having full BH augmented gear doesn't mean your'e any good (not trying to sound harsh).

That being said, this fight can easily be a pain, keep at it, make sure your dps players are putting out enough dps and you'll get it.

 

Furthermore, if they're all in full BH augmented, not one of them has a set bonus. That detracts somewhat from your class.

 

Itemization with BH is the way to go, not just "I have blackhole" ... 90% of BH gear requires two or even 3 pieces to get the correct effects for your spec and class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a meele imo you lose far to much time if you come out during Toth beserks, my advice for the meele is to pop Saber Ward just before he does so and that should eat up a fair chunk of Toth's first beserk stomp. After that keep up cloak of pain as much as you can and even be ready to use Undying rage if healing is that much of a issue during that phase. Best option healing wise is to have a Sorc put down an aoe healing circle next to Toth for the meele to loiter in.

Force Camo, Force Camo, Force Camo. Assuming no one stuffs up the Barradium Heave, it'll be up for every Berserk stomp. Just pop it when he leaves the ground, wait for him to land, and resume DPSing. You lose half a second if you do it right, and it makes the damage negligible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Furthermore, if they're all in full BH augmented, not one of them has a set bonus. That detracts somewhat from your class.

 

Itemization with BH is the way to go, not just "I have blackhole" ... 90% of BH gear requires two or even 3 pieces to get the correct effects for your spec and class.

 

Not necessarily, my juggernaut has been in Columi shells with BH armourings forever for the set bonus

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is by far the easiest boss in the game damage-wise. Melee dps can tank smashes with a decent healer, dont over-focus mechanics just to avoid taking damage. Try to time it so the swap happens around the time when fearful goes out. Thats what this fight is about - controlling swaps to happen at the correct time. When fearful ends (or even 2-3sec before), a swap should happen. DPS and tank needs to work together to know when to push for this. The enrage timer is quite strict in terms of delaying the swap-mechanic too long.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Force Camo, Force Camo, Force Camo. Assuming no one stuffs up the Barradium Heave, it'll be up for every Berserk stomp. Just pop it when he leaves the ground, wait for him to land, and resume DPSing. You lose half a second if you do it right, and it makes the damage negligible.

 

Shhh, people dont need to know that force camo also provides a 50% DR....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Force Camo, Force Camo, Force Camo. Assuming no one stuffs up the Barradium Heave, it'll be up for every Berserk stomp. Just pop it when he leaves the ground, wait for him to land, and resume DPSing. You lose half a second if you do it right, and it makes the damage negligible.

 

Yeah force camo is also another way to go with the beserk stomps, I've personally just never had any need for it on that fight..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah force camo is also another way to go with the beserk stomps, I've personally just never had any need for it on that fight..

You don't need any DR if your healers are half decent. That being said, I still think it's the smartest use of the ability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Force Camo, Force Camo, Force Camo. Assuming no one stuffs up the Barradium Heave, it'll be up for every Berserk stomp. Just pop it when he leaves the ground, wait for him to land, and resume DPSing. You lose half a second if you do it right, and it makes the damage negligible.

 

Wouldn't a tick from bleeds break camo ?

 

For that fight with my mara, I respecc to 31/7/2 for Defensive Roll. That combined with Cloak of Pain and Saber ward I'm golden.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get moxparser for your 4 DPS. Check the DPS after the fight (you can use torparse). Any DPS < 1200 is a problem, and should optimize their stuff/gameplay.

 

Is this a 5 or 6 minute hard enrage fight? If 5 minutes I'm coming with each DPS needing to output about 1250 dps (assuming tanks are putting out about 500, which I think is an underestimate) for nightmare mode (roughly Zorn 930K, Toth 870K I believe). Haven't checked what their hit points are in hard.

 

If 6 minutes, then DPS output for nightmare hit points is only 1000 dps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm fairly sure it's only directly executing an ability that breaks it. Could be wrong though.

 

Correct - direct damage is the only thing that breaks Camo early. Existing burns & bleeds do not affect it. Which is why for all of those single attack high aoe damage instances in the game (Gharj, Haidera on HM, Toth), it is a great ability to pop, even if it's just for a split second.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .

The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.

Melee dps are backing out during Toth's frenzy, tanks are tank swapping, no one is getting hit in the red circle phase, cleanse is going off immediately, bosses are far enough apart, fearful debuff is under control.

WHAT IS GOING ON!>!?!?!?!?!

 

My reason is if we constantly get to 10% on both and hit the enrage every time we are missing some dps.

 

ideas?

 

Do you guys run any kind of parser? Full BH doesn't mean much these days, it's stupid easy to obtain. We had a former guildie sporting full 61s with several 63 mods and he was always last on dps, so yea rotation/skill >>>> gear.

 

If everything else is spot on then my guess is at least a few of your dps are not pulling out the damage they should be doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you guys run any kind of parser? Full BH doesn't mean much these days, it's stupid easy to obtain. We had a former guildie sporting full 61s with several 63 mods and he was always last on dps, so yea rotation/skill >>>> gear.

 

If everything else is spot on then my guess is at least a few of your dps are not pulling out the damage they should be doing.

 

I agree. This fight asks something like 1200 DPS (which is quite low in BH augmented, even without any sentinel/marauder and adrenals).

 

But I can find another problem in this fight : fearful can be under control, but you cannot stop the DPS when Toth jumps or during the red circle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...