I don't see what the real issue is...

There is no economy in this game.

Every credit you make goes into a credit sink.

Training adventure or training crew skill or buying speeders or storage.

It seems as if the game was designed for players to make "just enough" credits to buy the needed things, while everything else is obtained through adventuring.

I guess in today's mmo's they feel people wouldn't play if they didn't get currency as rewards. I mean with all the traveling gates, ability/skill gates and gear gates why not just have people obtain what they need when they finish a quest?

I mean really if your game isn't a sandbox why would it matter?

SWTOR has made the mistake of making an "adventurers economy" in that everything you need is basically obtained through adventuring.

Crafting exists just to please people that like to craft but honestly it was designed by an adventure player not a crafter. There is no real need for crafting and especially no crafting economy.

Bind on pick up or bind on equip, skill req's kills a true mmo economy and community. The requirement to have biochem to use the good stims is just a stupid mistake.

The whole SWTOR economy is much like the whole "Ostrich Farm" scam. The only people making money were the people selling Ostrich eggs to people that believed they could make money off of Ostrichs.

Companion gathering and crafting kills the crafting game and economy for people that enjoy that part of a game.

I can buy stims and RE them for the materials cheaper than what it cost the maker to gather and make them. But then I can't sell stims because they're only usable by the people with the same skills so what's the use?

Do I love my reusable self and companion healing stims? Sure I do and it has given me an advantage in my adventuring but honestly it took very little to make them reusable at low level skill.

Now I don't need to make/buy any stims, buy/gather any materials other than to make the new reusables as I level up in adventuring.

This as an advenurer makes me super pleased because I figure I can get away with about 10% of the crafting that I thought I would need to do.

But thinking of "Why/How" some others play and enjoy "mmo's" it really is a "crafter killer".

Anything else my char(s) need they can get as loot.

This is just my honest opinion and my experience on 4 servers. It may be different for you.

Bioware is supposed to be using this to monitor their game:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/82535-bioware-licenses-streambase-processing-engine.html

Well, it's bloody obvious that either they don't know how to use the software program or are not using it.

How disappointing...

We're not talking about 4 million. We're talking about the REAL possibility of individuals having ammased FOUR BILLION credits during this exploits life. That is a real detriment to any server.

 

The reason that bioware will not suspend/ban is that right now they are in PANIC MODE. Based on valid gameplay concerns (ability lag), and now this exploit, there is a REAL risk of bleeding 35% of subs within 90 days of game launch.

35% is a ton of money to be lost within the first month - BW has their hands tied and will do nothing. If they want to remain in business, they will look the other way. Otherwise they will have a very hard time surviving.

Bioware is supposed to be using this to monitor their game:

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/82535-bioware-licenses-streambase-processing-engine.html

 

Well, it's bloody obvious that either they don't know how to use the software program or are not using it.

 

How disappointing...

That's because the client-side (as far as I know) coding for it isn't finished (I'd post the coding itself but it'd be taken down)

I am glad Bioware fixed the credit exploit, it defiantly had potential to damage the in-game economy. Luckily on THana Vesh (my server) the economy does not really seem to be suffering from inflation, most items on the AH actual seem underpriced imo.

It's fixed but the damage is done. I think what people are more worried about is not the mass inflation but the guys who have a bank of 200million+.

Bioware's definition, at least to the Ilum bans, was an exploit that gives a player a significant advantage over another. I'd say the player who holds 500million from an hour of exploiting has an advantage over everyone else.

35% is a ton of money to be losted within the first month - BW has their hands tied and will do nothing. If they want to remain in business, they will look the other way. Otherwise they will have a very hard time surviving.

I agree. But, to look the other way, and I hate to put it this way, is a dark side move. They need to take action against the offenders, meaning ban them, do whatever is possible to remove the credits from the economy, and move forward from there.

It's fixed but the damage is done. I think what people are more worried about is not the mass inflation but the guys who have a bank of 200million+.

 

Bioware's definition, at least to the Ilum bans, was an exploit that gives a player a significant advantage over another. I'd say the player who holds 500million from an hour of exploiting has an advantage over everyone else.

200 million is an understatement. There are two people who have 1.4 and 2.3 BILLION from this.

But more on track it is not really an issue.

All currency is trackable by code these days and they can easily delete all the duped credits.

As they say, all they have to do is check their "metrics" and they can find all the credits by the end of the day and delete them.

Duping in Mmo's these days is like stealing in a Casino in Las Vegas.

The technology exists that they know everything, watch or can review the data to find cheaters.

You can try, but you will fail!

200 million is an understatement. There are two people who have 1.4 and 2.3 BILLION from this.

And I was so proud of myself to have 30K in my 20's - I'm such a noob

But more on track it is not really an issue.

All currency is trackable by code these days and they can easily delete all the duped credits.

 

As they say, all they have to do is check their "metrics" and they can find all the credits by the end of the day and delete them.

 

Duping in Mmo's these days is like stealing in a Casino in Las Vegas.

 

The technology exists that they know everything, watch or can review the data to find cheaters.

 

You can try, but you will fail!

They can't delete what's already been spent on the GTH, converted into items, mats, purhcased by others etc. They can MITIGATE the damage by deleting what obvious credits remain and banning the offenders but for fear of bleeding subs they seem not to be taking that course of action.

I'm also interested...

 

So, it's more important than people win his/her money legally... like with the sliding ability, isn't it?

I don't care about economic exploits. So what? Thousands of players have billions of credits, and?

I'm more concern about the overpowered jedi and sith on PvP. Has any cry exploit baby played on PvP matches? There's eight of every ten players with Force powers. And if you're not one of them... you can't do anything on the match.

Imperial Agents are trained to kill Jedi.

But more on track it is not really an issue.

All currency is trackable by code these days and they can easily delete all the duped credits.

 

As they say, all they have to do is check their "metrics" and they can find all the credits by the end of the day and delete them.

 

Duping in Mmo's these days is like stealing in a Casino in Las Vegas.

 

The technology exists that they know everything, watch or can review the data to find cheaters.

 

You can try, but you will fail!

why did they not check their "metrics" ... this exploit was in the game since early beta..... c'mon they can't check anything at especially if their "metrics" coding is as poor as their auction house coding.

They need to remove all the money created from this and all property purchased using said money including removing all vendor bought items like VIP wristbands, Expensive speeders and what not that people use to bind up credits from said accounts.

This. Just take away the player's credits. It is within their ability to do. Problem solved.

Bioware is supposed to be using this to monitor their game:

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/82535-bioware-licenses-streambase-processing-engine.html

 

Well, it's bloody obvious that either they don't know how to use the software program or are not using it.

 

How disappointing...

I'm sure they are using that just fine. It's primary purpose appears to be handling thing real time.

I work as a Dev for a small software company. Our software is mostly data handling and we do indeed deal with a metric ***-load of data from various clients. I am quite often tasked to ferret out specific data from the system. Or worse, some client will call claiming a software problem and it turns out to be bad data or that some end user lied or exaggerated what they did and in actuality, screwed things up.

All of that can be easily tracked and determined with a little SQL investigation. If you know a system well, you can find it...

I don't know how the game is designed nor do I know their corporate process, development process, work-load, etc. so I could be totally off here, but I'm fairly sure the credits of each player are stored in a field in some table. If that's the case, you could easily write a procedure in 10 minutes or less that tells you what you need to know about player activities (just dump the results somewhere...create a job/schedule for it) such as the amount of credits they amass. You can even get fancy and devise an algorithm that considers number of days played with number of credits earned. If you go over the predicted amount - log it. That significantly narrows the list of who to watch/investigate.

This is already too long but if it were that easy and it wasn't done then well...oops. I've done worse.

But more on track it is not really an issue.

All currency is trackable by code these days and they can easily delete all the duped credits.

 

As they say, all they have to do is check their "metrics" and they can find all the credits by the end of the day and delete them.

 

Duping in Mmo's these days is like stealing in a Casino in Las Vegas.

 

The technology exists that they know everything, watch or can review the data to find cheaters.

 

You can try, but you will fail!

the idea is that a lot of these credits could already be 'cleaned' by buying hundreds of items from the GTN or other methods.

say you received 5,000 credits randomly in the mail. you might not know the sender but who cares free credits right? now let's say you ran to the GTN and bought a brand new lightsaber with those credits.

These metrics could say that you spent this 'tainted' money. or what if someone bought a rare item for a lot of credits on the GTN and resold it for next to nothing? the owner of that item could be called into question.

the thing is that if the money stayed with the exploiters it would be easy to track/delete but chances are this money has bled out into other peoples pockets...

I'm sure they are using that just fine. It's primary purpose appears to be handling thing real time.

 

I work as a Dev for a small software company. Our software is mostly data handling and we do indeed deal with a metric ***-load of data from various clients. I am quite often tasked to ferret out specific data from the system. Or worse, some client will call claiming a software problem and it turns out to be bad data or that some end user lied or exaggerated what they did and in actuality, screwed things up.

 

All of that can be easily tracked and determined with a little SQL investigation. If you know a system well, you can find it...

 

I don't know how the game is designed nor do I know their corporate process, development process, work-load, etc. so I could be totally off here, but I'm fairly sure the credits of each player are stored in a field in some table. If that's the case, you could easily write a procedure in 10 minutes or less that tells you what you need to know about player activities (just dump the results somewhere...create a job/schedule for it) such as the amount of credits they amass. You can even get fancy and devise an algorithm that considers number of days played with number of credits earned. If you go over the predicted amount - log it. That significantly narrows the list of who to watch/investigate.

 

This is already too long but if it were that easy and it wasn't done then well...oops. I've done worse.

Your logic doesn't belong here

I'm sure they are using that just fine. It's primary purpose appears to be handling thing real time.

 

I work as a Dev for a small software company. Our software is mostly data handling and we do indeed deal with a metric ***-load of data from various clients. I am quite often tasked to ferret out specific data from the system. Or worse, some client will call claiming a software problem and it turns out to be bad data or that some end user lied or exaggerated what they did and in actuality, screwed things up.

 

All of that can be easily tracked and determined with a little SQL investigation. If you know a system well, you can find it...

 

I don't know how the game is designed nor do I know their corporate process, development process, work-load, etc. so I could be totally off here, but I'm fairly sure the credits of each player are stored in a field in some table. If that's the case, you could easily write a procedure in 10 minutes or less that tells you what you need to know about player activities (just dump the results somewhere...create a job/schedule for it) such as the amount of credits they amass. You can even get fancy and devise an algorithm that considers number of days played with number of credits earned. If you go over the predicted amount - log it. That significantly narrows the list of who to watch/investigate.

 

This is already too long but if it were that easy and it wasn't done then well...oops. I've done worse.

Yes but you have to agree, being in IT yourself (Mine is Info Sec), BW, more likely than not, has everything stored on Oracle/Juniper size databases. A db admin can easily go in and via SQL queries manipulate the tables and see who was doing what when. But they can't even fix the simplest of bugs or glitches - I have never seen such incompetency...

They can't delete what's already been spent on the GTH, converted into items, mats, purhcased by others etc. They can MITIGATE the damage by deleting what obvious credits remain and banning the offenders but for fear of bleeding subs they seem not to be taking that course of action.

Well to just make up a % of subs that will bleed doesn't solve any problem or truly have any bearing on the true subject.

Let's not make up numbers on how much was duped or spent in game or how many subs will bleed to create panic on the forums.

Every credit has a code and they can delete every credit.

I could go into conjecture about "how many" innocent people have received credits from sales of goods or mats but you and I both know that that happened in a small % compared to what was duped.

Dupers don't dupe just to go buy a bunch of random stuff from random players.

Again they can trace the credit from creation and through the hands of every person that ever owned it.

It's not like hundreds or more random players are going to log in and find themselves 100k+ richer because a duper bought all auctions. It's a small collective group of people.

Economy was broken when they decided to model the game after magicly created loot drops and money sinks.

QFE

A little inflation on the auctions wouldn't hurt poor crafters looking to make a few....

Here is my take on it from a thread that apparantly got locked and censored....

Bioware time to SPEAK UP about EXPLOITING and CONSEQUENCES ! | Today , 06:35 PM

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Honestly Bioware this is imperative and utterly important you speak up now regardig the credit and commendation exploit.

People saying it should be kept hush hush dont understand the grave situation this has created.

I mean there are all the other MAJOR bugs like sluggish combat mechanics and the thread that i startet about all orange moddable gear which is not usable at level 50 because of developer stubbornes and antiquated thinking. All important things. But this recent exploit has to have consequences and it has to be done in a very clear, concise and public manner that leaves no shread of doubt that the exploiters where severely punnished and the billions of credit removed from the game economy

People that say credits are not the least important in an mmo and that ese billions of exploited credits are not important at all, really need to do some research before commenting.

Let me spell it out: if this is not done very soon and in a very public manner explaining what measures was taken by Bioware, this exploit alone will be MUCH more damaging for both the game (compared to all the other nontheless major bugs) and Biowares future reputation.

Not making the hammer fall swift and hard and in a public manner sends a catastrophic signal that exploiting and cheating is not punished sufficiently.

Bioware, i know you have loads of bugs to fix, that it is friday, that its hard to produce an MMO and all the other hard facts :-) but it is time to break your silence, and no, just to be absolutely clear, the VERY VAGUE post you posted regarding this is nowhere even near what is needed, not even by a long shot. Lets be honest in the end its Your game, and your responsibillity that such a disastreous bug like this got through any sorts of quallity control. Yes its a tough world :-) **** hapend. Now is the time to be responsible and sort this mess out

Thank You

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