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Saboteur/Engineering Guide 3.0+

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
Saboteur/Engineering Guide 3.0+

mmmbuddah's Avatar


mmmbuddah
03.22.2015 , 07:37 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by BaineOs View Post
The single target damage on engineering for pvp isn't that bad tbh. Have a look at the link in my sig, might help...might not. The issue with lethality is there's a lot of fluff damage if it's not done right.
Just gotta do it right then =P. Ill check out the link tho.

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
03.23.2015 , 09:20 AM | #32
I'll be doing some testing with the Alac builds on the PTS this weekend so I can save the money I have left. I'll try to have some results in by the end of the week assuming all goes well.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
03.23.2015 , 03:12 PM | #33
Mmk, so I made a thing. I'll attach this to the main thread as well so you guys can track my progress, but anyways, I made a spreadsheet of the builds I'm using. The rotations from each one may vary slightly as I find ways to tweak the rotation, however, these are about 99% similar.

I jotted down the APM and Crit % as well on these parses because these heavily influence how good each parse is.

So here's the link!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1290048842
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
03.29.2015 , 11:59 AM | #34
Sorry it's taking me longer than I thought to get the data I need. RL just hit me, so I'm attempting to readjust. I will get this testing done somewhat soon. I hope.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Whojoo's Avatar


Whojoo
03.30.2015 , 09:14 AM | #35
Is it me just having some extreme luck or are the Contingency Charges after the first charge of Smuggler's Luck auto crits as well?

So activate smuggler's luck -> Sabotage Charge -> auto crit Contingency Chargers -> Sabotage Charge -> not auto crit Contingency Charges.
The Red Eclipse
Republic Enforcers Suddenly Taken Over

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
03.30.2015 , 09:54 AM | #36
Next character I'm getting to 60 is my slinger so I've enjoyed reading your guide here and on Dulfy's site. I don't have anything to add on sab specifically since I'm not even 60 yet but the alacrity argument is interesting to me.

I can handle a bit lower dummy DPS because it's the only stat that provides benefit during down time. By that I mean during those times when the boss is immune or you can't be dps'ing for mechanics reasons alacrity still shortens your cooldowns. Maybe this isn't significant enough to matter but it might make sense as you mentioned your actual boss fight DPS has been looking a bit better.
Bonkurz

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
03.31.2015 , 08:18 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Whojoo View Post
Is it me just having some extreme luck or are the Contingency Charges after the first charge of Smuggler's Luck auto crits as well?

So activate smuggler's luck -> Sabotage Charge -> auto crit Contingency Chargers -> Sabotage Charge -> not auto crit Contingency Charges.
It's a thing yeah, but I'm still confused about why it's like that. Snipers don't have that little bug that we do. I've addressed to Bioware a couple of times but they haven't said anything about it.

Quote: Originally Posted by ML_DoubleTap View Post
Next character I'm getting to 60 is my slinger so I've enjoyed reading your guide here and on Dulfy's site. I don't have anything to add on sab specifically since I'm not even 60 yet but the alacrity argument is interesting to me.

I can handle a bit lower dummy DPS because it's the only stat that provides benefit during down time. By that I mean during those times when the boss is immune or you can't be dps'ing for mechanics reasons alacrity still shortens your cooldowns. Maybe this isn't significant enough to matter but it might make sense as you mentioned your actual boss fight DPS has been looking a bit better.
It's still under testing, but yeah, I'm surprised it's getting the results I'm receiving.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
04.05.2015 , 08:42 AM | #38
Ok so I have some news some of you may be interested in.

While I do not have a definite answer on the Alac VS> MS or Power (Final Results will be released by the end of the week for sure. Only one strand of tests left to do. Maybe more if I decide to test power augs as well.)

But this is what I've found: Between 740-630 Alacrity rating usually gave me over 39 APM. Roughly 39.5 on average between the two series of tests. However, just 100 points below this value the APM drops by about 1 on average. While this may not seem important at first, take note that there were very minor changes in crit averages between the three. Meaning, the 0.15%(ish) crit obtained from said MS little to no effect on the parses obtained. There are no changes in rotation or gearing (Besides the Alac/MS stated).

I'm also busy with stuff outside of SWTOR so I'm rushing to some conclusion, but the startilization of the APM difference from 640 to 536 hit me like a train. There shouldn't be big differences between the two, yet it happens.

TL;DR: If you are running a high Alacrity build, run between 740-640. Do NOT run below this if you want to reap the full benefits of alacrity.
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
04.05.2015 , 09:21 AM | #39
Perhaps the lazyness factor has officially set in, but the data suggests that at my current critical rating (302) these is virtually no difference in DPS between the 120 approx. alacrity rating build and the 740-640 builds.

Overall Conclusion:
After doing a review of a couple of parses, I'm going point out here a couple of things to keep in mind as you start gearing.

If you have lag based off PERFORMANCE I recommend not using the high alacrity build. Put in one enhancement and you are good to go. This is because physical input time is being affected, not internal input time.

If you have lag based off INTERNET/CONNECTIVITY, you could actually do either/or. Explanation: Typically everyone experiences sever lag from time to time. Its unavoidable. But EVERYONE has ping. Whether it is good or bad, it doesn't actually matter when it comes to alacrity. Let's attempt to look at this mathematically shall we?

So our standard GCD timer is 1.5 seconds. Good to know if you don't. People have X ping all the time on SWTOR. Not everyone has great ping, but not everyone has horrible ping either. For simplicity's sake, let's just say we have 100ms ping. And this is in regards to input. So if we use Flurry of Bolts at 0 time, then it'll actually be used .1 seconds after we physically clicked it, then the GCD would come off 1.6 seconds after click.

Now let's take our new Alac build and so some math. With the 740 rating we reach about 8.5% Alacrity, which reduces the GCD timer by .1275 seconds. Our new GCD timer becomes 1.3725 seconds. Now if we account for that .1 seconds of ping we'll achieve an actual GCD clock of 1.4725 roughly. This puts it back under the normal GCD timer if ping is at this level.

Now that we have both timers accounted for ping lets do some more math. By doing [1-(1.5/1.6)] and [1-(1.3725/1.4725)], we can see what % the ping is slowing down the GCD clock, on average. In standard we are losing about 6.25% of potential uptime. With the new Alac build, we are losing 6.78% of potential uptime. That is only a .5% difference between low and high alac builds at 100ms ping. In raids this percentage will raise by a small fraction depending on the quality of your computer.

So what does this all mean?: The % of time lost by adding more alacrity into the mix will go unnoticed in a raid. Meaning even someone with semi-quality ping one can still do optimal dps with higher alacrity.

Now to note the differences between the two:

Low alacrity - This will have generally better looking numbers at the beginning of a parse. Since the full effect of alacrity doesn't kick in at the very beginning, full Power or MS augs will produce better opening numbers. Meaning, in a raid scenario, this build would be most optimal for bosses with lower hp, or a series of burn phases.

High alacrity - While slightly weaker in the opener, the full effects of Alacrity really kick in after about 3 minutes into any fight. Since overall TTK is being reduced strictly by speed, the speed will surpass the damage dealt throughout a low - alacrity build on prolonged fights. This build will be particularly useful on fights with small adds or with a constant need to switch targets. And of course longer boss fights.

Tl;DR: Pick what you feel you'd like to do. The dps difference is minimal between the two. Each set has their own advantages, but both can perform almost equally well in raids. Just don't do high alacrity if you can't keep up with the speed increase.

I will be running high-alacrity because Camel doesn't like to disappoint. Also, if my techy **** is off, let me know. I just went off of some very generic **** knowledge of ping. Don't actually know the full effects of ping
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
The Pockets Legacy - Begeren Colony & Shadowlands

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
04.07.2015 , 02:59 AM | #40
Regarding the alacrity vs mainstat augments. My own theorycrafting suggests a very very tiny difference. Based on a DPS output of 4.500 you would see a dps loss of about 35 dps when using 12 augs

The moral in here is that it doesn't really matter which augment you take. Both are about equal.

Please note that I use a 0.9 factor for alacrity
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)