"This isn't how we want the game to be played."

One of the most repeated lines in the Twitch stream.

It seems to me a successful game is a balance between the vision of the developers and a match with the customer/client. I am sorry, I hate to use the word but the one that comes to my mind is Arrogance.

I get the excitement with RNG. It is like the gambling with Cartel Crates. But people don't want to gamble with their gearing up. I talk to a lot of people in game and have only met one person who liked the rng aspect of the crates - and surprise - he had been very lucky. Nearly everyone has been begging for it to go. You have so many good (and bad) suggestions on the forums, why are you not listening to them? Not reading but actually listening and acting upon them? I am a parent and a teacher and that is the "validate your opinion, but it doesn't change a thing" approach both would use.

You didn't think that people would grind? Or you wanted to make sure they did the grinding in the way the Daddy Devs think should be done? You KNOW that you play a constant game of Whack a Mole with exploiters/hackers and yet you find it unbelievable that people will utilize the game as a .. competition to be best or first? Because that was my take away from the stream. "We don't want the game played that way."

You sound as if the players are here for your benefit. Sorry, I have news for you.... People will only tailor their play-style to a game for so long, then they leave. Regretfully, heart-breakingly (in some cases) but they leave.

There has been mention that most of the people leaving only resubbed for the story then cancelled. It was my experience with the people I talked to that the reverse was true. They had been bored the last few months waiting for the expansion (always dead time in any game) and only were keeping their sub to see the story and then evaluate the game play. THESE are the people I am seeing leave.

The story is magnificent. It is exciting. But once you have done the story what is left? A non-fun grind at the mercy of RNG. You would have been better served spending a portion of the cinematic money on end game content to retain the people who, now they have been wowed by the story, find there is nothing to hold them.

I haven't played SWTOR very long (about a year) but have come to love the game and the community and I have played MMORPGs since the original EQ came out. It is killing me to see so many people unhappy and - if not leaving the game - not playing it as their default anymore. It is not enough to say, "Yeah we see your concerns" and then not do anything truly helpful to address them. I get you can't let the complainers be the controllers of reactionary policy but there must be some middle ground. You have a vision, now you have to make it work FOR your clients, not the other way around.

Solid post but let it go lad...

we in nose dive mode now..

Let it go.

Play how bw wants.

playing to what you find fun is clearly a mistake is bws eyes and the will nerf it into the ground should you actually play how they do not want you to even if its not an exploit or real issue.

AKA: "[bW] doesn't consider farming gold mobs to be an exploit but if you do it they will nerf it to the ground." because you will not play your way. What did you think this was? A paid gaming service. LOL

RNG killed WoW for me and it will kill SWTOR as well.

I like certain loot tables when the only gambling I'm doing is whether the specific thing I want will drop.

I don't like endless rolling hoping something useful eventually will drop but instead you get useless garbage (in WoW it was my legendary STR wand)

Sorry, but RNG does not belong in this game but if it takes hold I will have to end my since-launch sub

Play how bw wants.

This is something I don't particularly understand from people. Just using your quote as an example I guess. I don't see how people are forced to play differently than how they want to. Nim operations have been beaten already so those are doable in a mix of 224 and 230. HM operations (where I've decided to spend the bulk of my time) are able to be completed in 224/228/230 so thats not gated. HM flashpoints are easily done in the past tier's gear so thats fine.

At the end of the day, players can still play how they want. It's not like these activites don't grant cxp. Getting them to better more appropriate values is certainly a step in the right direction. But, I think people are being a bit over the top with the whole I can't play how I want to play idea. I held that idea when this first started. But, I can play exactly how I want to play still. I don't feel forced into anything. Just craft your gear, use your old set bonus armor and do what you want.

This is something I don't particularly understand from people. Just using your quote as an example I guess. I don't see how people are forced to play differently than how they want to. Nim operations have been beaten already so those are doable in a mix of 224 and 230. HM operations (where I've decided to spend the bulk of my time) are able to be completed in 224/228/230 so thats not gated. HM flashpoints are easily done in the past tier's gear so thats fine.

That's 1% of the population, and that's high rolling, of people that can beat nim operations in 230 set bonus gear. For the rest of us mere mortals here were going to need probably tier 3 to even have a hope of beating nightmare operations and that's besides the point. People are going to have to go through extra hoops than they should to either do old content or get back into doing it.

This is something I don't particularly understand from people. Just using your quote as an example I guess. I don't see how people are forced to play differently than how they want to. Nim operations have been beaten already so those are doable in a mix of 224 and 230. HM operations (where I've decided to spend the bulk of my time) are able to be completed in 224/228/230 so thats not gated. HM flashpoints are easily done in the past tier's gear so thats fine.

 

At the end of the day, players can still play how they want. It's not like these activites don't grant cxp. Getting them to better more appropriate values is certainly a step in the right direction. But, I think people are being a bit over the top with the whole I can't play how I want to play idea. I held that idea when this first started. But, I can play exactly how I want to play still. I don't feel forced into anything. Just craft your gear, use your old set bonus armor and do what you want.

The quote comes from what was said in the stream. If memory serves, they said they nerfed the CXP on gold mobs from 10 to 1 because they didn't feel farming gold mobs was the way they felt the game should be played.

This is something I don't particularly understand from people. SNIP....

Well let me help you out.

Just as a small example, Hows that mob grinding working out for you now if you had happened to like that sort of thing?

play bws way, not really your way as they work to focus you to one area.

If it was really play your way, all content would give the same rewards in CXP. That would be play your way. It is not that. The nerf to grinding mobs is just a glaring issue in this fiasco.

but the real kicker is at the start of the streambw said something akin to, they want to make sure WE, the paying players, get the game we want to play. You can't make up something so absurd as bw is in real life.

Solid post but let it go lad...

 

we in nose dive mode now..

 

Let it go.

This post right here. We all feel like 'Losers' in this game for what this horrid team has done. In one content update they have ruined what community the rest of us spent years building.

BW doesn't get to determine what people find fun. If people find grinding mobs fun, then they should be able to do just that. That's what they're paying to play the game for.

"We don't think it's fun, therefore we don't think you should think it's fun" is just arrogant.

Solid post but let it go lad...

 

we in nose dive mode now..

 

Let it go.

Pretty much. Just let it go.

That's 1% of the population, and that's high rolling, of people that can beat nim operations in 230 set bonus gear. For the rest of us mere mortals here were going to need probably tier 3 to even have a hope of beating nightmare operations and that's besides the point. People are going to have to go through extra hoops than they should to either do old content or get back into doing it.

True of course regarding nim operations. But, who I'm talking about are the rest of the population. They can very easily get back to what they were progging on right now. If the person in question likes to do flashpoints at either difficulty they can do that right now. Galactic command has almost no influence on their ability to play any of the content they may want. As an addition, I do think people are ignoring crafting as a legit means to lessen the RNG pain from the crates. Getting 228 mods enhancements, implants, ears, and relics is super easy to do. All they have to do is visit the crew skill trainer and craft a new 220 and reverse engineer it. Super easy to do. After all, people were talking about how they hit legendary on dvl, that means they have all crew skills at their disposal. So they might as well make use of them right? I know that's kinda rude, but there's a point there that I think people are willfully ignoring out of a lack of patience for gear. Maybe that's 4.0's fault. I don't know. All I know is that all the content is completely open to me because I chose to craft mods and enhancements, ears, implants, and relics (or just kept my old stuff).

I mean in reality I'd agree that a lot of content needs to see their command experience levels increased including heroics and chapters. But, overall, people still can definitely just play.

Like I said in another thread, I don't really care about chasing the "best of the best" stuff with GC.

I just want to have some fun... and max my crew skills, but mostly have fun.

I'm sure I'll be perfectly fine doing whatever I want to do in crafted 228 gear... just need to accumulate the materials so I can actually craft it all

Anything I get above that is a bonus, I guess.

If I let my sub expire on January 7th, I won't be able to get any more GC crates, but I'll still be able to play the game with my friends and have fun.

BW doesn't get to determine what people find fun. If people find grinding mobs fun, then they should be able to do just that. That's what they're paying to play the game for.

 

"We don't think it's fun, therefore we don't think you should think it's fun" is just arrogant.

On top of that, after that statement he said it wasn't an EXPLOIT! But they proceeded to nerf it any ways.

This post right here. We all feel like 'Losers' in this game for what this horrid team has done. In one content update they have ruined what community the rest of us spent years building.

I feel you...

I've been somewhat of a toxic turd the last couple days as I was back during the lead up to 2.4 when bio was removing 8v8 rateds.

at the end of the day we cant change the system if you like it or not that no longer matters what matters is if you still got boys left in the game enjoy them while you got em.

Most of us have all lost friends and or guild or better yet a guilds worth of friends to this game. I'm demoralized and I'm done being a crappy toxic ape.

Just let it all go lads if you enjoy the new system play it and have fun while you can...

If you hate it and got boys still left in the game spend as much time with them as you can.

Let's just stop the in community fighting. People say lifes to short well.. This games life is gonna be too short I think.

I posted a thread a few days back with exactly the same sentiments as the OP

Dev Arrogance vs Player Feedback

How they seemed to be forcing us to do what they want, not what we want.

The live stream basically confirmed that fear

It was utterly clear to me ( and I stated it a few times ) that with GC the game was changing to BWA telling us how we should play as opposed to being able to play how we wanted to play.

Nice to see them confirm that though.

RNG killed WoW for me and it will kill SWTOR as well.

 

I like certain loot tables when the only gambling I'm doing is whether the specific thing I want will drop.

 

I don't like endless rolling hoping something useful eventually will drop but instead you get useless garbage (in WoW it was my legendary STR wand)

 

Sorry, but RNG does not belong in this game but if it takes hold I will have to end my since-launch sub

Unsub now the live stream made it clear nothing is changing in the short term and unsubbing is the only way they will get the message.

This post right here. We all feel like 'Losers' in this game for what this horrid team has done. In one content update they have ruined what community the rest of us spent years building.

I don't. So we "all" don't. You do.

Just a question .

How is what they said any different than what I have heard other players say as well

"If you don't pvp, you are doing it wrong"

"If you don't do operations, you are doing it wrong."

I have heard those comments and more since the game was release from different players so what they said is nothing new to what I have heard since launch.

Just a question .

 

How is what they said any different than what I have heard other players say as well

 

"If you don't pvp, you are doing it wrong"

 

"If you don't do operations, you are doing it wrong."

 

I have heard those comments and more since the game was release from different players so what they said is nothing new to what I have heard since launch.

Other players aren't the games producer or developers

I don't. So we "all" don't. You do.

Sigh. When people say ‘we’ and ‘all’ they don’t actually mean ‘everyone’ in the whole flipping community. You know what they meant, don’t be ‘that’ person.

P.S Looking at your past thread you certainly felt like a loser when the gold mobs were nerfed. Don't be that kind of white knight.

Just a question .

 

How is what they said any different than what I have heard other players say as well

 

"If you don't pvp, you are doing it wrong"

 

"If you don't do operations, you are doing it wrong."

 

I have heard those comments and more since the game was release from different players so what they said is nothing new to what I have heard since launch.

If a player says that, its just an argument from ignorance. If a dev says it, they are no different. The difference is that one is a player, the other a dev with authority over this game.

Its like when a random stranger, a nobody, on the street says something racist or sexist. Hes an idiot. But when a politician who runs for an office says it, that country is in trouble. (no relation to a real person, its just an analogy)

A player has little to no influence over this game. But a dev has. A dev who displays this kind of ignorance and incompetence shouldnt be a dev. Which is exactly what we see in the streams, in 4.0, 5.0... The devs seem to try to push the limits and see how far they can go before it colapses all around them. Its a trend of 2016 it seems. How far can one go before people really lose it and the consequences come raining in?

The issue was that people were farming Gold Mobs because it was the fastest way to grind levels, not because they enjoyed doing it / found it fun. If you find farming Gold Mobs to be fun, that's fantastic! You can still grind them to your heart's content. It's just not so disproportionately effective that people who don't find it fun will feel compelled to do it anymore.

All game design revolves around incentivizing certain activities. dis-incentivizing others, and balancing them to degrees. When you find that something is inadvertently over-incentivized, you tweak things to get it back in line with how much incentive you intended to provide.

The same reason they're bringing Uprisings and FPs into line with WZs - they aren't trying to prevent people from playing WZs if they want, they just don't want people to feel that playing WZs is the one "right" way to get CXP because it's disproportionately effective.