1, ur basing ur tanking experience of low level tanking. So ur whole experience of tanking bears no resemblance to that of a raid tank or even in hard modes.

2, ur taking 2 points in flame barrage. that will probably work out at the same amount of heat reduction as heat blast does, which is a dead certain venting system.

3, ur taking a DOT ability for threat. always bad as it has no threat modifier, and will provide no snap aggro.

4, ur taking hitman/advanced tools. All classes other than mercenaries have an interrupt, there are no bosses that require so much interruptign that the tank needs 2 seconds off his CD. You also dont need to have grapple on a 10sec lower cd, u will be using it once a pack if anything, and packs dont take under 45seconds unless theyre pathetic packs, where u shouldnt even need grapple.

5, ur taking the prototype cylinders, 8% more of pretty much nothing, is still.. pretty much nothing.

6, Hot iron not necessary, those 2 points would provide more return going into Iron Fist.

7, ur sacrificing 10% shield chance to pick up MINIMAL aggro gains, ur also sacrificing 3% endurance and 8% rocket punch damage[ur main damage source] This 10% shield chance isnt affected by the DR u get on ur gear.

Try going into a hard mode dungeon, or a hard raid using this spec. See how long u last.

Seems like you know what you're talking about, and you are definitely right about me basing all this off low-lvl tanking and theories, are there any lvl 50 PT Tanks here who wish to contribute to these points?

I'd like to know for sure that he's right about what he's stating as to make sure I don't waste time testing a bad spec. ^^

Aggro is hardly an issue in this game, given you use your tools properly. The first 5 seconds are the only time I even relatively lose threat, and that's only is DPS initiates too early in the pull.

In short, losing any amount of mitigation is not worth the "gain" in aggro. You're not dps, once you have the mob attacking you, any extra aggro is wasted.

If I may suggest this, as a compromise between the extra threat while maintaining the necessary defensive talents.

You lose Flame barrage though, so whether it will work for you or not is another thing completely.

First I want to say that I believe completely in using Jet Pack for most of my engagements and in almost all scenarios. That being said....

I've been using Grapple a lot in pick up groups. The current scenario will have 5 mobs, 2 Elites 1-2 Strong and a common. Two mobs if your lucky will get a CC. I grapple a mob and taunt 2nd. I also like to use grapple when my current target is about 5% to bring in the next 3rd mob or a Patrol. I Love my Jet Pack and would use it from start to finish, especially seeing how most knock-backs seem to put you right in range for a fresh JP.

But if I don't control the location of the fight it tends to end up with someone in the group breaking the CC because they hit an AOE. By grappling the targets I keep the start of the fight away from the CC mobs. Grapple also has been useful when your fighting a boss and you have to pull some mob that broke CC off your healer.

ALL THAT being said I feel this is an excellent post and realize that I should be less reliant on controlling the fight location with Grapple. instead I should be more about controlling the direction of the fight in PUGS.

---

My Personal opinion: I am disappointed in Retractible Blade and was hoping for more out of it. And I always thought Rocket Punch should be a finisher and not a primary attack. I would of liked to see the two switched mechanic wise.

I'm really surprised anyone is even discussing this.

You'd be worthless in HM FPs.

2 pts in Electro Surge and 2 pts in Advanced Tools? No point in Jet Charge and 10% shield?

 

The lack of Jet Charge is inexcusable. If I knew you in person I would go to your house with a white board and a 12 pack of beer, not to share. I would then proceed to drink all the beer, put the whiteboard up on one of your walls, and begin drawing crude stick figure drawings of guys in rocket packs flying around being 100% more awesome than you because your rocket pack doesn't do anything but improve your jump shot. I would be making a lot of ZOOM noises while I did this. Afterwards I would probably puke on your lawn.

 

I know you really really really want to get that extra foot of jump height to punch The Sandman in his mouth-hole, but guess what Little Mac; Jet Charge is rad.

 

You think your group wants to wait for you to mosey on up to the next pack of badguys so they can wait a couple seconds more for you to establish threat so they can waidsfljfasdfjew

 

Sorry, I fell asleep on my keyboard just thinking about it.

 

Point is, don't hold crap up. Jet Charge in like a real man and start punching dudes in the face.

Ahahaha!

You, sir, are my hero.

/swoon

I can't believe you called Puncture a "waste". I should've stopped reading there... then I saw the template.

You're better off taking full shieldtech except for heatblast, then using those 11 points to grab retractable blade.

It doesn't seem like it, but 10% shield chance is ALOT of defense to give up.

Also, flame barriage is worthless. Please, get rid of it. I wouldnt take that even as an advproto.

*EDIT* did he change his setup? The link I'm clicking shows he has jetcharge, just not jet speed... which is worthless anyways.

If the problem is venting and your willing to give up mitigation why not go up the Pyrotech tree and have Rail Shot completely replace Heat Blast?

THE STANDARD SHIELD BUILD

DMG

+ 9% Aim

+ 2% Fire DMG

+ 6% Fire CRIT

Rocket Punch and Flame Sweep gain 30% CRIT DMG

+8% Ion Gas Cylinder Damage

MITIGATION + UTILITY

10% Shield Chance

Heat Blast (Dump 8 heat and deal minor damage)

///EXCHANGED FOR:

THE SHIELD/PYRO

DMG

+ 6% Rail Shot DMG

Rail Shot Ignores +10% Armour

Flame Burst has a 30% chance to reset the Rail Shot CD and make it FREE

Rocket Punch has a 45% chance to reset the Rail Shot CD and make it FREE

MITIGATION + UTILITY

+ 3% Endurance

+ 2% Melee and Ranged Defense

Vent 8 Heat when Stunned, Immobilized, Knocked Down, Incapacitated

Vent 8 Heat if Rail Shot hits a burning target

If you're willing to give up Jet Charge your Rail Shot will have 90% Armour Penetration instead of 70%. Also to nitpick its possibly worth exchanging 2% Fire DMG for 3% AIM but I am unsure of the math behind it.

A bit of a breakdown on what that 10% shielding actually does:

Base defensive stats, with no stats from gear, taking every other defensive talent in the tree: 22% shield, 26% absorb

Increasing shield chance by 10% takes you from a 78% chance to take an unshielded hit to a 68% chance, a 12.82% decrease. At 26% absorb your aggregate damage taken over time is reduced by 3.33%. That's a decent reduction for the investment.

The question I still have is this: is tank damage high enough that those 5 points are necessary, and if it isn't, how could we better spend those points?

To the person who said any extra damage above what you need to hold aggro is wasted: I call BS. Extra damage shortens fights, and shorter fights mean less opportunity to **** up. Being a tank doesn't mean you shouldn't maximize your damage output, particularly in an environment where tank damage isn't terribly threatening. I'd flip your statement around and say that any defensive stats over what we need to survive are wasted.

To players tanking endgame content: how high is your damage intake? Are healers struggling to keep you alive? Are enrage timers an issue?

If the problem is venting and your willing to give up mitigation why not go up the Pyrotech tree and have Rail Shot completely replace Heat Blast?

 

THE STANDARD SHIELD BUILD

DMG

+ 9% Aim

+ 2% Fire DMG

+ 6% Fire CRIT

Rocket Punch and Flame Sweep gain 30% CRIT DMG

+8% Ion Gas Cylinder Damage

MITIGATION + UTILITY

10% Shield Chance

Heat Blast (Dump 8 heat and deal minor damage)

 

///EXCHANGED FOR:

 

THE SHIELD/PYRO

DMG

+ 6% Rail Shot DMG

Rail Shot Ignores +10% Armour

Flame Burst has a 30% chance to reset the Rail Shot CD and make it FREE

Rocket Punch has a 45% chance to reset the Rail Shot CD and make it FREE

 

MITIGATION + UTILITY

+ 3% Endurance

+ 2% Melee and Ranged Defense

Vent 8 Heat when Stunned, Immobilized, Knocked Down, Incapacitated

Vent 8 Heat if Rail Shot hits a burning target

 

If you're willing to give up Jet Charge your Rail Shot will have 90% Armour Penetration instead of 70%. Also to nitpick its possibly worth exchanging 2% Fire DMG for 3% AIM but I am unsure of the math behind it.

Thanks for posting this comparison.

In your ST/Pyro build I would consider losing the Supercharged Ion in its current state, it seems like a really minimal damage gain from what people are posting. Otherwise this looks pretty strong and I may try it out with my next respec!

If the problem is venting and your willing to give up mitigation why not go up the Pyrotech tree and have Rail Shot completely replace Heat Blast?

 

THE STANDARD SHIELD BUILD

DMG

+ 9% Aim

+ 2% Fire DMG

+ 6% Fire CRIT

Rocket Punch and Flame Sweep gain 30% CRIT DMG

+8% Ion Gas Cylinder Damage

MITIGATION + UTILITY

10% Shield Chance

Heat Blast (Dump 8 heat and deal minor damage)

 

///EXCHANGED FOR:

 

THE SHIELD/PYRO

DMG

+ 6% Rail Shot DMG

Rail Shot Ignores +10% Armour

Flame Burst has a 30% chance to reset the Rail Shot CD and make it FREE

Rocket Punch has a 45% chance to reset the Rail Shot CD and make it FREE

 

MITIGATION + UTILITY

+ 3% Endurance

+ 2% Melee and Ranged Defense

Vent 8 Heat when Stunned, Immobilized, Knocked Down, Incapacitated

Vent 8 Heat if Rail Shot hits a burning target

 

If you're willing to give up Jet Charge your Rail Shot will have 90% Armour Penetration instead of 70%. Also to nitpick its possibly worth exchanging 2% Fire DMG for 3% AIM but I am unsure of the math behind it.

A far better option in my opinion. However, as has been continually stated in this post, the loss of 10% shield chance makes you far too RNG based defensively. The less consistent your incoming damage is, the more burst healing is required, making healers such as the Operative/Scoundrel struggle more than necessary.

The only way I would ever replace those 5 points is if damage reduction in another tree had an equalivalent overall mitigation increase.

In it's current state, the 10% shield chance is superior to other options, and provides a form of mitigation that will scale far better with gear.

Additionally, it irks me that everyone here is so concerned with aggro generation. In the case of the majority of these posts, it regards problems with multiple adds. The BH has more than enough tools, and can even vent 50 heat as a failsafe if you need to produce a few more abilties in order to maintain threat.

Aggro was an issue up until Flame Sweep, now, there is no excuse for losing threat, and I'm more concerned with facing/mitigation issues in comparison with other classes (I'm looking at you Guardian/Warrior with your 40% reduction) than anything else at the moment.

This isn't WoW, I'm not expecting or seeing many options regarding hybrids that will be min/max choices in PVE content.

And if you aren't interested in min/max options, please don't post them for people to argue over.

If your Shield Absorbption is below a certain level the Pyrotech route could be appealing. 10% Shield Chance with 30% Shield Absorption equates to 3% less damage taken. Pyrotech recieves 2% less melee and ranged damage taken (this is the exact same damage types you are shielded from according to the tooltips and is considerably more stable because it does not proc, it's STATIC).

If you go pyrotech with 30% Shield Absorb you take 1% DMG more than the Shield spec if Aborption is 30%. The key is the Absorption is scalable. When you gain say 50% Absorb. Pyrotech spec takes 3% more DMG.