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Malavai Quinn


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Shrug, MY warrior blamed Baras before she blamed Quinn. You know, the fellow with absolutely zero force abilities or power enough to resist the will of a Sith Lord. She was actually bummed at her own inability to protect Quinn from Baras' manipulations, in fact. It's just that the last person she was truly angry with, was Quinn, who was, she knew, nothing but a mere force-blind Imperial caught between two battling Sith.

 

So her rage was directed towards what she knew was the proper target for it. Not Quinn but Baras. Which was probably good in the long run, because Quinn is perhaps the most valuable companion she could call her own. He captained her ship, navigated for her, proved to be a technical AND tactical genius time and again, ran her medical bay with expertise, and, finally, helped her relax during downtimes between missions.

 

You don't ruin something worth having, basically.

 

The problem is, this spin on things isn't so much of an interpretation as it is head-canon. Quinn was not being forced to do anything. He honestly thought siding with Baras was the best thing for the Empire, and more significantly, for Quinn's career. He thinks he owes his career to Baras AND he thinks Baras is going to be the next Emperor. He just wants to be the Emperor's right hand man, which is as high as a non-force user can go in the Empire. The dialogue in the betrayal scene spells out his true feelings very clearly. Basically, he's an ambitious little weasel and incapable of feeling anything very deeply.

 

You may also want to look for youtube videos of his comments to the other companions in that scene if you happen to bring them in. Very telling.

 

No, he's not worth keeping, sadly.

 

Personally, I adored the character when I thought he was what he appeared to be, a loyal, competent Imperial. Had I been the writer, I would have had Quinn drop you a secret message before you go in. "I'm going to betray you. Baras is watching. Let's put on a good show, eh?" Boom, problem fixed.

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Because your Sith character is smarter than you.

 

Not saying this to be insulting just responding with the truth, an intelligent Sith (which is what our characters are supposed to be) does not squander a valuable resource unless their hand is forced in the matter, or the resource finally gets used up. Quinn, as the story goes, has much to offer that puts him in a unique position against other officers of his level.

 

A treacherous swine does not equal a valuable resource no matter what his abilities. Especially in Sith world, where being able to trust someone is a luxury. In real world, any world, he would have been removed from service.

 

In eve online, you don't let an AWOXer who once revealed your fleets position to the enemy so they could stage an ambush back to fleet. Ever.

 

Im perfectly fine with there being this kind of treason among the companions, but at least they could have tried to make it so that he was forced to do it somehow, so he could have been forgiven more easily or something.

Edited by Karkais
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Eh the whole "my SW is smarter" is just no.

 

While my SW does spare Quinn it's because he's a resource, useful and they feel that the only one they'd betrayed him to is Baras he still should be killable. (It'd make my choice to save him matter more too. :p ) The devs let the SW get rid of useful things to him/her before that as well (that said if Quinn is killable Jaesa and Vette should be as well. Especially Vette. By god is she annoying). The SW destroying things after he/she feels they are no longer of use is a running theme. I don't know why it's averted with companions. Oh wait yes I do. The whole "oh noes I actually killed mai companion?!?" bleh.

 

TLDR companions should be killable or dismissable after they've outlived their usefulness. My DS SW dragging around Vette's wisecracking self when he's killed people for less is *** inducing as I'm sure some DS SW killing people for treason keeping Quinn around is *** inducing.

Edited by Raynezazki
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The problem is, this spin on things isn't so much of an interpretation as it is head-canon. Quinn was not being forced to do anything. He honestly thought siding with Baras was the best thing for the Empire, and more significantly, for Quinn's career. He thinks he owes his career to Baras AND he thinks Baras is going to be the next Emperor. He just wants to be the Emperor's right hand man, which is as high as a non-force user can go in the Empire. The dialogue in the betrayal scene spells out his true feelings very clearly. Basically, he's an ambitious little weasel and incapable of feeling anything very deeply.

 

You may also want to look for youtube videos of his comments to the other companions in that scene if you happen to bring them in. Very telling.

 

No, he's not worth keeping, sadly.

 

Personally, I adored the character when I thought he was what he appeared to be, a loyal, competent Imperial. Had I been the writer, I would have had Quinn drop you a secret message before you go in. "I'm going to betray you. Baras is watching. Let's put on a good show, eh?" Boom, problem fixed.

 

I've enjoyed two seperate warrior playthroughs and watched countless youtube videos describing the incident itself, actually. I ultimately played it the way that made the most sense to me, anyway. There is so much that isn't captured in the in-game scenes, enough I can only assume the developers themselves left it fairly open-ended so that we could RP it ourselves, shrug.

 

However, given the fact we KNOW that Baras is a master manipulator AND a liar AND a betrayer AND the sort of fellow who'll pull whatever string he possibly can in order to further his own goals -- it's simply not reasonable to think he wouldn't coerce Quinn into doing as he wanted. Also, given the fact that Quinn does NOTHING through nearly the entire game that paints him as anything less than truly respectful of the warrior, even loving if the warrior is a female -- i.e. he didn't attack the warrior, fail the warrior, stab the warrior in the back, try in any way to undermine the warrior, and certainly didn't try to kill the warrior even given the numerous opportunities available in which he could have -- it's perfectly reasonable to assume he was coerced.

 

No way to know what form that coercian took, mind you. There are any number of coercive tactics that Baras might have employed, though. Having watched Baras turn a man's brain into a puddle of goo, though, I don't imagine he would've (1) hesitated or (2) been kind about it.

 

Finally, if we're to buy into the notion that Quinn was coerced, it's not unheard of to consider that ANYTHING he had to say during the events on the Transponder Station was complete and utter hogwash. Either he was putting on show for Baras, if that's what you want to RP. Me, I tend to believe he said whatever he had to in order to make the warrior angry, because that's easier for him to face than her being hurt. It's totally up to you.

 

But regardless. Play your story as you choose to. I thought the story was an awesome consideration of the byplay between the Sith and the Imperials, what happens when a non-force-sensitive is caught between two Sith warring with each other. To me, the entire tale provides an interesting look at the social dynamics of the Empire as a whole.

 

Because, honestly. How does an Imperial officer really, truly tell a Sith "No" without being destroyed right then and there? And then if he does say "yes" in order to avoid being destroyed, how does he get out of it, if it's not something he wants to do? What exactly does he do?

Edited by Phyreblade
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Eh, after my initial anger and disappointment, I've reconsidered my position. Quinn is nothing but a pawn, albeit a useful one. I'd keep him alive, now, because with his failure, I believe he would be utterly loyal now. His biggest thing is his career, and face it, he killed a Moff (even though its a useless Moff) and killing a superior officer is something that he would most likely be executed for. His career would be over just due to that, he failed Baras, he failed the SW, he failed the Imperial Military that he loves so much. Who knows that he killed a moff? No one yet, except my SW. My SW would keep him alive and hold that little secret against him. He would be an ideal tool. My SW now has a hold on him, much like Baras had a hold on him before. He is more useful to my SW then Jaesa and Broonmark are. I would rather get rid of them, quite frankly. Jaesa is a giant disappointment, what good is her special power?
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And more importantly, why weren't you given the option for her to use it on all yuor companions, thus getting to the bottom of the whole Quinn thing.

 

Oh heck yeah. The first thing my SW would have done is ask her to use that power on everyone.

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... There is so much that isn't captured in the in-game scenes, enough I can only assume the developers themselves left it fairly open-ended so that we could RP it ourselves, shrug.

 

That's what I mean by head-canon. It's very easy to spin the event several different ways. That doesn't make it bad. However, players do need to recognize where the writing stops and their own version begins.

 

However, given the fact we KNOW that Baras is a master manipulator AND a liar AND a betrayer AND the sort of fellow who'll pull whatever string he possibly can in order to further his own goals -- it's simply not reasonable to think he wouldn't coerce Quinn into doing as he wanted.

 

Let's put it this way -- unless it was outright mind control, which it wasn't -- Quinn is a genuine traitor. He wasn't passively siding with Baras. He actively sided with him. He believed in Baras so much that he was willing to betray the Emperor. That's a huge deal. The cool, smug way he speaks to you in the betrayal scene is the real Quinn.

 

Also, given the fact that Quinn does NOTHING through nearly the entire game that paints him as anything less than truly respectful of the warrior, even loving if the warrior is a female

 

Because Baras told him to! Everything Quinn said to you was based on a lie. Baras wanted a mole on your ship and he got one. Baras can't tell you to accept this stranger outright. You'd never trust him. So Quinn and Baras put on a little show on Balmorra. Quinn pretends to choose to serve you because he finds you inspiring. Quinn helps you because that's what Baras needs. It was all a setup. It was Quinn's job. Maybe some of the personal stuff was genuine but, ultimately, it was meaningless if he doesn't side with you when the chips are down.

 

... it's not unheard of to consider that ANYTHING he had to say during the events on the Transponder Station was complete and utter hogwash. Either he was putting on show for Baras, if that's what you want to RP. Me, I tend to believe he said whatever he had to in order to make the warrior angry, because that's easier for him to face than her being hurt. It's totally up to you.

 

If Quinn were loyal to you over Baras, or coerced, you would have been told somehow. The writer would have made it clear. Quinn had every chance to work with you, to warn you, to set something up, but he doesn't. I think Quinn was just hoping things would work out between you and Baras, but when it doesn't, oh well. He "regrets" it, and rather unemotionally at that.

Edited by Xonell
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Eh. He was rude to Vette. I've killed people for less.

 

and my SW killed people for being less rude to him than Vette but for some reason she gets a free pass :confused:

 

Honestly if I wanted to gimp myself and have no crafting horses the game should've let that happen. It's called CONSEQUENCES.

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Because Baras told him to! Everything Quinn said to you was based on a lie. .

 

I disagree on this, I also went through the whole SW story twice and recorded all the vids. If you look into it you can find several proofs that Quinn is genuinely loyal to the SW.

 

A few examples (spoilers there) :

 

On Tatooine

 

Before the fight with Master Yonlach, he tells you something about Quinn : "I sense his feelings for you Sith. His devotion goes beyond professional duty."

Well, Yonlach is an experienced jedi master, surely he knows what he's saying ;)

 

 

On Hoth, the second time you get there :

 

After the Emperor's Hand contacted you and told you to find general Geist and convince him to go to Corellia.

If you say that you have no idea on how to find him and that you will search the whole planet if you have to : Quinn is the one suggesting that you should find Slinte and ask him about Geist's whereabouts, that it would expedite your mission.

 

At this point in the story, why would he help you thwart Baras' plans if he wasn't loyal to you?

It would have been so much better for Baras if Quinn just let you waste your time and energy searching the whole planet without a clue.

 

 

I guess it's not so much an issue of headcanon versus canon, but more how biased you are towards the character and how you choose to focus on what's good or what's bad about him.

 

 

I've enjoyed two seperate warrior playthroughs and watched countless youtube videos describing the incident itself, actually. I ultimately played it the way that made the most sense to me, anyway. There is so much that isn't captured in the in-game scenes, enough I can only assume the developers themselves left it fairly open-ended so that we could RP it ourselves, shrug.

 

However, given the fact we KNOW that Baras is a master manipulator AND a liar AND a betrayer AND the sort of fellow who'll pull whatever string he possibly can in order to further his own goals -- it's simply not reasonable to think he wouldn't coerce Quinn into doing as he wanted. Also, given the fact that Quinn does NOTHING through nearly the entire game that paints him as anything less than truly respectful of the warrior, even loving if the warrior is a female -- i.e. he didn't attack the warrior, fail the warrior, stab the warrior in the back, try in any way to undermine the warrior, and certainly didn't try to kill the warrior even given the numerous opportunities available in which he could have -- it's perfectly reasonable to assume he was coerced.

 

No way to know what form that coercian took, mind you. There are any number of coercive tactics that Baras might have employed, though. Having watched Baras turn a man's brain into a puddle of goo, though, I don't imagine he would've (1) hesitated or (2) been kind about it.

 

Finally, if we're to buy into the notion that Quinn was coerced, it's not unheard of to consider that ANYTHING he had to say during the events on the Transponder Station was complete and utter hogwash. Either he was putting on show for Baras, if that's what you want to RP. Me, I tend to believe he said whatever he had to in order to make the warrior angry, because that's easier for him to face than her being hurt. It's totally up to you.

 

I agree with you on this Phyreblade ;)

Edited by kalistea
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That's what I mean by head-canon. It's very easy to spin the event several different ways. That doesn't make it bad. However, players do need to recognize where the writing stops and their own version begins.

 

Indeed.

 

Let's put it this way -- unless it was outright mind control, which it wasn't -- Quinn is a genuine traitor. He wasn't passively siding with Baras. He actively sided with him. He believed in Baras so much that he was willing to betray the Emperor. That's a huge deal. The cool, smug way he speaks to you in the betrayal scene is the real Quinn.

 

Shrug, Sith can pull some pretty nifty mind tricks. They're not even bothered by the use of such methods, as the Jedi might be, in fact. There's just no way, whatsoever, to know what Baras asked of Quinn, directed Quinn to do, or otherwise made of Quinn, though. Not ever. You simply can't say Quinn wasn't coerced or tricked or otherwise manipulated, not enough to declare "it never happened."

 

Because Baras told him to! Everything Quinn said to you was based on a lie. Baras wanted a mole on your ship and he got one. Baras can't tell you to accept this stranger outright. You'd never trust him. So Quinn and Baras put on a little show on Balmorra. Quinn pretends to choose to serve you because he finds you inspiring. Quinn helps you because that's what Baras needs. It was all a setup. It was Quinn's job. Maybe some of the personal stuff was genuine but, ultimately, it was meaningless if he doesn't side with you when the chips are down.

 

My warrior knew exactly what Quinn was doing on her ship, pretty much from the get-go. Common sense dictates that the master who routinely directs spies across both the Empire and the Republic is going to have a spy watching her own rear-end, too. Quinn's request to join her crew is taken precisely in full understanding of his real purpose, there.

 

So ask yourself, as I did:

 

 

When Baras finally makes a motion to kill your warrior, sends Draahg to Quesh to blow your warrior up, why does it take Baras so long to discover your warrior survived the attack? Given he has a mole on your ship, why is it not until after Belsavis that he learns the warrior is still alive? Why didn't Quinn just tell him? Furthermore, why is it that the warrior even survives that attack? Some hefty heals are required to ensure the warrior doesn't die in the explosion, apparently. Who healed the warrior, if not Quinn? If Quinn is MORE loyal to Baras than the warrior, and knows that Baras orchestrated this massive explosion using spies he had in the Republic in order to pull it off, why does he then foil Baras' efforts and save the warrior's life?

 

 

Seriously, how do you imagine Baras told him to do THAT? And why, for pete's sake?

 

 

"Quinn, we're going to use moles we've got deep in the Republic to blow the warrior up. But don't let her die! Pull her out of there and heal her up! That way she can go off on this incredible quest to undermine every bit of our plan to take on the Emperor. Rather than letting her suffocate in the rubble there on Quesh, we'll have you put together a couple of droids to take her on. Eventually."

 

 

The only thing that makes sense, honestly, is that by that point in the game, no, Quinn is NOT more loyal to Baras anymore. Even if he initially approached the warrior because Baras demanded it of him. That means that sometime after Belsavis, Quinn had to be approached and somehow coerced by Baras to act as he was told to. It's just the only thing that makes sense, is all.

 

If Quinn were loyal to you over Baras, or coerced, you would have been told somehow. The writer would have made it clear. Quinn had every chance to work with you, to warn you, to set something up, but he doesn't. I think Quinn was just hoping things would work out between you and Baras, but when it doesn't, oh well. He "regrets" it, and rather unemotionally at that.

 

Quinn makes it a point to tell your warrior of his devotion, respect, and loyalty, funnily enough. My warrior was told he'd serve even her legacy, in fact.

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Wow. There's some serious fan-girling going on in this thread.

 

Rather than argue all day about an awful character and poorly-thought out writing and numerous plot holes, I will just say this.

 

Quinn is poop.

and I should be able to put the samer collar that Vette wears and choke him from time to time and then choke him a little bit more until he expires. Pity that he is unkillable

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he was my fave comp til he failed to kill my char. i wanted to kill him badly on that scene cuz he failed and there is no place for failed ones on my ship's board. however, since i couldn't kill him due to the strict storyline, i've decided to punish him by outfitting him with the most fugly armor combinations available. now he stands still like a clown on deck, as a mark of his pathetic failure..
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Wow. There's some serious fan-girling going on in this thread.

 

Rather than argue all day about an awful character and poorly-thought out writing and numerous plot holes, I will just say this.

 

Quinn is poop.

 

True. I am a total Quinn fan girl. I don't think he's an awful character at all, but evil character yes! Empire side! Bad people! I'm not about to humanize the evil empire like everyone else on the forums. Quinn's betrayal is one of the things that makes the whole Warrior storyline one of the better ones. As for the romance, who cares! I'll head canon it. Plus to be fair his romance was all go away, not professional, I'm here to do a job and avoiding your advances. He finally succumbs, so yeah, I don't think it was part of the master plan, though a case could be made for it. Plot holes abound, but they do in all the stories. Yeah, fan girl.

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Wow. There's some serious fan-girling going on in this thread.

 

Rather than argue all day about an awful character and poorly-thought out writing and numerous plot holes, I will just say this.

 

Quinn is poop.

 

I have to be fangirling to defend a character? :D granted I am a Quinn fangirl but eh.

 

Agreed on it being poorly thought out writing though. The whole betrayal scene is laughable. It makes little to no sense. Thus why I say it's Baras influenced it and Quinn pretty much made the easiest way for you to kill him with no regrets ever. :cool:

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I have to be fangirling to defend a character? :D granted I am a Quinn fangirl but eh.

 

Agreed on it being poorly thought out writing though. The whole betrayal scene is laughable. It makes little to no sense. Thus why I say it's Baras influenced it and Quinn pretty much made the easiest way for you to kill him with no regrets ever. :cool:

it makes a lot of sense, after all Quinn is intelligence agent sworn to serve Baras on his mission to invigilate you. It would be rather silly of Baras to let his powerful student roam like mad in the galaxy, especially knowing that his apprentice is a monster incarnate ( DS )and wouldnt be happy for long as a mere apprentice. Quinn served well, as he should, imperial intelligence is a class itself.

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The best two things about keeping Quinn alive:

 

Pierce's comments about him crack me up.

 

HK-51 wants to set his programming prejudice to maximum and eliminate the traitor :)

 

Yes, talk to these two a few times when you have their affection up (hell HK gives you some freebies really early on, when you first have him on your ship).

 

Even if you "love" him, you can't help but get a good giggle out of how much those two hate his guts.

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Wow. There's some serious fan-girling going on in this thread.

 

Rather than argue all day about an awful character and poorly-thought out writing and numerous plot holes, I will just say this.

 

Quinn is poop.

 

If it's such an awful character with such poorly-thought out writing and numerous plot holes ... well, then there'd be no reason to respond to anyone's fangirling of the character, hmm? Heck, the fact so many people have to post so many threads describing this one single character seems, to me at least, to indicate the writers of the story did a pretty dang good job, hehe.

Edited by Phyreblade
misspelling
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Not unlike all other sensible upstanding citizens, I too was very pissed off about this.

It is annoying, sad and pathetic on two different levels.

 

Surface waters are sour in obvious enough fashion: I am heartless,selfish evil and cruel Sith Warrior. I get betrayed. Immediate slow terrible violent murder death kill is only logical reaction most people (guessing here) want to have for their Sith Warriors. Instead, we have dialogue wheel that looks like this:

A) It's alright :)

B) Why did you do it:(

C)Please don't do that again:)

This felt insulting in ways similar to what it felt like when Lord Scourge asked my Knight about my children.IIRC my dialogue options were like A) I love humpin them ladies B) I have humped many a lady C) I cant wait to hump them ladies WHAT CHILDREN I AM A JEDI I LIVE IN CELIBACY DAMN IT

 

Deeper waters of Quinn gate have them implications that are even more depressing. Sith War was 1st Storyline I finished. Thanks to crude heavy handed way Quinn was protected by plot It was imemdiately painfully obvious that if people writing this junk lived in cage so small they didn't have a freedom to kill a companion even in these conditions, they surely would not be able/willing to kill any of them ever. On any class. For any reason. I'm literally willing to bet my account details on this. Credit card included. I'm 100% sure there is not a single companion between any of the classes in this game that could under any conditions die in pernament fashion. This game has like..what 40(!!) different companions. They form majority of the NPCs who stick with player through the storylines. Knowing ALL of them end up in various Happily Ever After types of situationsin the end is bit of a drag, no?

Edited by Stradlin
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If it's such an awful character with such poorly-thought out writing and numerous plot holes ... well, then there'd be no reason to respond to anyone's fangirling of the character, hmm? Heck, the fact so many people have to post so many threads describing this one single character seems, to me at least, to indicate the writers of the story did a pretty dang good job, hehe.

If they did it well people wouldn't be confused about him.

 

But this confusion only arises because they removed the option to kill him. He started following you, maybe out of his own will, maybe under orders, that doesn't really matter. At some point after serving you faithfully, and maybe even becoming romantically linked (Most likely real feelings) he shows his true colours once Baras asks him to betray you. And those true colours are that he feels more loyalty to Baras than to you (Not that he doesn't like you, or woudln't be loyal to you in any other circumstance, just that he feels he owes Baras more).

 

The options you should have had are 'kill him for his betrayal' or 'leave him alive because you now know he will show you the same loyalty that he showed to Baras". It only falls down because you lose out on the most popular choice.

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Knowing ALL of them end up in various Happily Ever After types of situationsin the end is bit of a drag, no?

The worst part is that from what I understand each class actually has one companion written in a way that you might want to make a kill/keep decision, but then that choice was removed from the game and you have to keep them all.

 

It would be ok knowing that everyone actually did live happily ever after, but seeing the tension and betrayal and the different beliefs and not being able to do anything about it gets annoying.

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If they did it well people wouldn't be confused about him.

 

But this confusion only arises because they removed the option to kill him. He started following you, maybe out of his own will, maybe under orders, that doesn't really matter. At some point after serving you faithfully, and maybe even becoming romantically linked (Most likely real feelings) he shows his true colours once Baras asks him to betray you. And those true colours are that he feels more loyalty to Baras than to you (Not that he doesn't like you, or woudln't be loyal to you in any other circumstance, just that he feels he owes Baras more).

 

The options you should have had are 'kill him for his betrayal' or 'leave him alive because you now know he will show you the same loyalty that he showed to Baras". It only falls down because you lose out on the most popular choice.

 

I don't see that people are confused about Quinn. The threads I've seen, rather, are more emphatic, full of wishes to shock-collar Quinn, toss Quinn out an airlock, torture Quinn repeatedly, etc. Others, like me, indicate a certain fascination with him. Who is he, where did he come from, why did he do it? It's only that, as a character, Quinn seems inclined to create a rather visceral emotional response, in fact. Since story-telling is designed to create exactly that sort of response -- one that's emotionally charged, I mean -- the writers did a good job where this character is concerned.

 

I honestly think that without Quinn the entirety of the Warrior story would be beyond blah boring. Seriously, it would be nothing more than monotonous routine involving the killing of one enemy after another. Instead, you have this one episode that makes you stop and go, "Whoah, what the heck just happened?! Huh?" Quinn makes things interesting, imo. That's all.

 

In the end, if someone gets the chance to kill Quinn, it's nothing to me, actually. I'd be losing NOTHING whether it's the most popular course, or not. Cause my warrior didn't and won't, ever, kill her captain. But that's just her. She had her reasons, as I described earlier, and it worked. To each their own.

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