Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Revamp needed


JecVanguard's Avatar


JecVanguard
06.09.2018 , 02:06 AM | #1
Star Wars space combat has always been about dog fights X-wings versus Tie fighters. The only way to get people play SF is to go back to basics. REMOVE missles. REMOVE sniper ships. Go for pure dog fighting. At the moment I try to dog fight, but it's always ruined by some coward in a sniper ship shooting me down while i'm engaged in honourable battle. Save SF NOW, go pure dog fighting and nothing else!

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
06.09.2018 , 10:22 AM | #2
Hate to say this, however if you ever played X-wing, or Tie Fighter PC games Missiles were an important aspect of Dogfighting. Because of this I think your incorrect on your comments referring to missiles. More proof of this is in Episode 2, when Obi-Won tracks Jango Fett to Genosis. Fett shoots Missiles and Sciesmic charges at him (proof for bombers is there as well).

GSF isn't a mini game completely based on Dogfighting it was built on a rock-paper-scissor. Each ship is based to beat something else. Bomber>scouts, Scouts>GS's, GS's>bombers. The difference now is Strikes are now able to kill efficiently, where prior to 5.5 you'd have been better flying one of the other ship types.
Referral Link: www.swtor.com/r/Q4Tp3P

Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
06.10.2018 , 01:57 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
GSF isn't a mini game completely based on Dogfighting it was built on a rock-paper-scissor. Each ship is based to beat something else. Bomber>scouts, Scouts>GS's, GS's>bombers. The difference now is Strikes are now able to kill efficiently, where prior to 5.5 you'd have been better flying one of the other ship types.
Why did you stop there, you forgot to add fighters under the new patch to your >'s:

Fighter>Bomber, Fighter>GS and Fighter>Scout.
To follow your Rock/Scissors/Paper analogy before 5.5 we did have that as no-one played fighter much.
But now we have Rock/Scissors/Paper/Nuke, where Nuke beats everything.

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
06.10.2018 , 09:42 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
Why did you stop there, you forgot to add fighters under the new patch to your >'s:

Fighter>Bomber, Fighter>GS and Fighter>Scout.
To follow your Rock/Scissors/Paper analogy before 5.5 we did have that as no-one played fighter much.
But now we have Rock/Scissors/Paper/Nuke, where Nuke beats everything.
Except GS can easily beat SF, as can a scout. Fighter>bomber, and GS>SF. I would Disagree with your Fighter>Scout however. That would only depend on the scout pilot. I know many scout pilots that would wreck SF's.
Referral Link: www.swtor.com/r/Q4Tp3P

JecVanguard's Avatar


JecVanguard
06.11.2018 , 04:05 PM | #5
Perhaps we could try something fresh...everyone gets the same ship with the same equipment, no missles and weird special abilities just blasters and pilot skill. I accept your point that SW does have some missles in the movies, but I feel most people still want pure dog fighting with blasters. Naturally the existing GSF players who are comfortable in their dominant position would hate a level playing field because then they might actually lose...

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
06.11.2018 , 04:50 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by JecVanguard View Post
Perhaps we could try something fresh...everyone gets the same ship with the same equipment, no missles and weird special abilities just blasters and pilot skill. I accept your point that SW does have some missles in the movies, but I feel most people still want pure dog fighting with blasters. Naturally the existing GSF players who are comfortable in their dominant position would hate a level playing field because then they might actually lose...
Blaster accuracy is a good contender for the GSF skill that new and intermediate players struggle the most with. The reason that gunships, bombers, and more recently strikes have been so popular is that they have secondary weapons that constitute a significant portion of their damage potential and do not require as much gunnery skill from the player.

You wouldn't be leveling the playing field for newer players. You'd be handing the experienced players a gigantic bonus for having mastered gunnery as it exists in GSF. All of the components that help less skilled players compensate for their lack of skill are the ones that you're asking for the removal of.

It would be like banning training wheels in a bicycle race for all ages. It wouldn't make it more fair for the beginners, it would punish them for having not developed as much skill as people who started learning at an earlier date.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

Twitch

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
06.11.2018 , 11:23 PM | #7
Dear OP,

I have been in many dog fighting situations and its not that thrilling as the match in total. When you actually have a 1 vs 1 it can become quite boring. I mean you keep on looping, flying in circles because as long as one of you does something different like fly forward a bit, the other one will use it right away.

Such dog fights are not what GSF should be about. Its just like PVE you have melee, you have rdps, tanks..... different roles, different ways of playing/fighting. This makes the match even more interesting rather than to fly around in circles with 1 enemy targeted.
Merovejec Merovex Meroveg Merovien Meroven Merovingian
Meroxer Raynarog Ray-narock Raynarock Raynaroc Raynarok
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements before 5.9.2 67040

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
06.12.2018 , 07:30 PM | #8
Of all the maps, Iokath TDM is very friendly to dogfighting. In my opinion anyway. Unlike Lost Shipyards TDM, where the objects and LOS opportunities favor gunship sniping, I find the debris in Iokath to be perfect for strikes. Yes, of course, there are still places for gunships to hide and snipe, there are still places for people to make dronecarrier nests, but after 8 months of playing it I think it was designed to be more strike friendly... arguably also the T2 battlescout which is also engineered for dogfighting.

Rather than removing valid play styles and removing choices, why don’t you advocate for custom match lobbies like Despon has posted about frequently, or a new game mode like an escort style match?
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.

BarbarikDave's Avatar


BarbarikDave
06.13.2018 , 05:25 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
Dear OP,

I have been in many dog fighting situations and its not that thrilling as the match in total. When you actually have a 1 vs 1 it can become quite boring. I mean you keep on looping, flying in circles because as long as one of you does something different like fly forward a bit, the other one will use it right away. .
I can attest to this. Every time I get into a 1v1 dogfight situation it just ends up being an endless loop. I'd say a good portion of my recent deaths are because I got tired of looping for 2 minutes and decided to just say screw it and take the death or because another enemy came along and took me out while I was caught in the loop.
David Aurelia | Ventorus Aurelia
"There is no ignorance, there is knowledge."

STAR FORGE - Tython Giveaway Event <- Click it.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
06.15.2018 , 04:55 AM | #10
So OP, I too have posted in the past about how I wish there was more "dogfighting" in the game but the more I've thought about it, the more I question what that really means. If by dogfighting, you mean ship-to-ship combat, then there are quite a few examples of that in canon and of those, some can be replicated in-game. If by dogfighting you mean individual starfighters in a furball circling each other, well, that doesn't really happen in the movies much, but the endless turn fights happened in SWG and they sometimes happen in GSF as well, and like Merovejec posted, aren't terribly exciting.

If you're talking about canon, i.e. the movies, what "dogfighting" was there, really?
Spoiler

As you can see in the spoiler tag, there are a few examples in the movies to look at. While we don't have the same battle objectives like there are in the movies (escorts, escapes, attacking capital ships or huge relatively stationary targets) we do have one mode (Domination, DOM) very objective oriented. DOM doesn't have larger ships like corvettes and cap ships that were clearly involved in the fights portrayed in R1 and Ep. 6, or "hard target" objectives to go after like a Death Star exhaust port or a Starkiller Base thermal oscillator. The best translation of a corvette or cap ship turret could arguably be gunships and their railguns. To that end, using gunships to attack enemy vessels coming to a friendly satellite from a distance, denying them access to the area; using bombers to drop ordnance on top of ships defending an enemy satellite; and using various scouts and strikes to escort and support those vessels between satellites … I mean, that seems about as close to the movies as we can get with what we have.

Again, if its dogfighting, meaning ship-to-ship combat, you are looking for, like the encounters in the spoiler tag, I think on-the-node fights in DOM, and Iokath TDM are fairly amenable to that in-game. If that's not good enough for you, then the answer is new game modes … not removal of whole ship classes.
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.