Many casuals don't want in a premade very often. Myself for example. I would try to form a great premade if there was premade matching but as it is I absolutely hate long periods of pugstomping. There is no fun in that.

 

For example, I enjoy kickboxing. However, I don't go around punching 2 yr olds.

 

Also using the same logic many of you do...If your premade isn't perfect composistion with great gear then that is your fault. So if your premade sucks then it should get beaten by better premades. Let bad premades get stomped by good premades and let bad puggers get stomped by good puggers.

So I said about EFFORT, and you change this about Premades requiring top composition and stuff. Ok cool story bro.

Maybe you're right. What we should stop do is ask BW to stop making us fight each other and get us to face NPC dummies than run around the middle of the fight doing nothing but auto attack so we can feel better and win because we're CASUALS and DON'T want to TRY.

Will this make everyone happy, I mean premades wont be necessary then? Hell even gear wont needed to be either, and Rated WZ will be unrequired. Unless the NPC dummies win by out dpsing you, then where do you go from there?

So I said about EFFORT, and you change this about Premades requiring top composition and stuff. Ok cool story bro.

 

Maybe you're right. What we should stop do is ask BW to stop making us fight each other and get us to face NPC dummies than run around the middle of the fight doing nothing but auto attack so we can feel better and win because we're CASUALS and DON'T want to TRY.

 

Will this make everyone happy, I mean premades wont be necessary then? Hell even gear wont needed to be either, and Rated WZ will be unrequired. Unless the NPC dummies win by out dpsing you, then where do you go from there?

Teh rage, it burns my eyes.

Honestly man, this may surprise you, that some people don't play this game to be the best ever. Odd concept right, that someone actually plays this game to have fun, pssh what in the seven hells are they even thinking. I mean next thing you know people are going to start playing games for the entire purpose of personal enjoyment.

God forbid they be paired against people who are on the same level, that....would.....be......crap its competetive cant have that going on in pvp, no sir, if it aint a rofl stomp its not worth playing, and the casuals SHOULD enjoy it. I mean why not...you just showed how to derp smash, bubble stun(or whatever else your class does) properly, its like your teaching them, not stomping......THATS WHAT IT IS, WE SHOULDNT BE CALLING EM PREMADES, WE SHOULD BE CALLING THEM GAME TUTORS, AND LEARNING IS FUN......RIGHT?.......Why the hell am I even paying for a subscription when I spend my time teaching the unknowing.

All kidding aside.

Three things can happen.

The Entire PVP'ing community can get better and pvp will always be competitive.

The Devs can institute some form of balancing for teams, or on an extreme note remove premades from partipating in regular warzones.

OR

Nothing changes, and the game will continue on the same path it has been for atleast te past 6months.

My money is on Nothing changes.....call me pessimist, but when a horse wins that many races in the past, chances are hes a good bet in the future.

Note: Momma said "Spell check and grammar are the devil"

Teh rage, it burns my eyes.

Note: Momma said "Spell check and grammar are the devil"

Lol, did I ever just see Adam Sandler when I read that

Zhaker, you are so far off.

What I want is competition. What you want is a lack of competition so that you can feel better about yourself.

I also realize that this game could use more players and that many mmo players are more casual. So for them I want a game that keeps them subscribed and helps them improve.

Fighting in a pug against a premade can help me improve since I play at a high lvl already. This is similiar to when I play against people slightly better than me in a sport. However, a new and/or more casual player should not constantly face premades and if they do face a premade it will not help them at all.

That would be like me playing against pro basketball players. I wouldn't learn anything and I would just get completely stomped. When you take gear/voice chat/ composition (guard + healer anyone?)/ etc. then this is just no where near a learning experience for the average player.

I want competition. I want to make a premade half of the time and then normally fight other premades for more even matches. You want runovers.

Zhaker, you are so far off.

 

What I want is competition. What you want is a lack of competition so that you can feel better about yourself.

 

I also realize that this game could use more players and that many mmo players are more casual. So for them I want a game that keeps them subscribed and helps them improve.

 

Fighting in a pug against a premade can help me improve since I play at a high lvl already. This is similiar to when I play against people slightly better than me in a sport. However, a new and/or more casual player should not constantly face premades and if they do face a premade it will not help them at all.

 

That would be like me playing against pro basketball players. I wouldn't learn anything and I would just get completely stomped. When you take gear/voice chat/ composition (guard + healer anyone?)/ etc. then this is just no where near a learning experience for the average player.

 

I want competition. I want to make a premade half of the time and then normally fight other premades for more even matches. You want runovers.

Correct on all counts. Let me also add that many pug players like myself do not want to socialize with elitist jerks like this, and that is why we don't join large PvP guilds.

I tolerate enough arrogant, rude sociopaths at work and in public as it is, I am not going to waste my free time bootlicking to you and your clique in order to get a premade spot.

I pug most of the time when I queue up for WZs and I really don't mind facing premades all that much. I have been in enough good pug groups that have stomped good premade groups to know that if players understand what they're doing that a fight can be winnable without the, apparently, all powerful voice chat.

Do I need to pug? No, my guild runs 2-4 man premades pretty regularly with ranked on the weekends. I simply do it because I want to and I don't hold anything against those that want to form a premade.

I also understand why other players form premades. It really has nothing to do with rolfstomping other players but with insuring that there is, at least, one other player on your team that knows what he or she is doing.

Because, seriously, we've all gotten aggravated at those players that feel the need ignore the objectives and their roles, i.e. guarding a node, in a WZ.

So, in the end, I pug and I don't mind the premades and would rather deal with them than dealing with a team of players that feel like they're their own special snowflake and can do whatever they want to the detriment of the team.

Address that to Bioware. It's them who failed to create a normal queue system for everyone.

If anyone wants to group up with friends and play PVP - they can do it at any moment. I'm not asking to ban premades. Actually, I can answer to "premade" guys exactly the same way : "want to play in groups? go play ranked. Do not have enough friends to form 8 ppl premade? Go find more friends". How's that differs from "don't queue solo, go form a premade"?

Why solo players must bother about YOUR group matchamaking? Why I should lose a WZ just because someone decided "to play with frineds" and their premade just owned our pug team without any healers and without any chance to win?

Playing in random team or premade team is completely differrent warzone experience. Games with random pugs are fun too, you never know how good or bad your and enemy team will be. You have to think fast, have to cooperate with other players regardless of their skill or gear and act quick. It brings some unique challenge to such games. When a premade shows up in such random game it ruins it in most cases. it ruins many peoples fun, most of them usualy quit. Just because Bioware's made a big mistake allowing premades to enter random teams. And also because you "want to play with friends". Can't blame you for that, but when someone having fun means that other one must suffer - that's just not right.

You want to play in groups - no problem, form a group and queue. This is not solo player problem how you going to play it. Solo player must play with other solo players in random teams. You can do whatever you like: play in 4 vs 4, 8 vs 8, 16 vs 16 or I don't know what BW will give to you (maybe). This is your problem. Leave pugs alone, let them play with other pugs, go ask Bioware to make some 3vs3 or 4 vs 4 warzones or something like that. I will be more then happy to see such WZs in game.

And solo players queue for fun, not to man up 4 vacant places in group with premade so this ops group can even start a game. Stop raging against pugs. Without them, your team do not get to WZ at all. Ask bioware to fix it, so premades can normally queue and play without pugs.

The difference between forming a casual pug with whatever guild members are on and forming a ranked team that does anything besides get destroyed is the difference between a match and a supernova. I also like how you're ok people having fun at others expense as long as your particular group (solo queuers) aren't the ones suffering.

I want BW to fix it by making a good MATCHMAKING system. That way everyone actually can have a more positive experience. I'll use smaller words if that's so hard for you to understand.

I don't think forcing people onto ranked is a good thing. It sounds good on paper in the only option to queue as a group is ranked not everyone who runs premades is ready for ranked. With ranked warzones having BiS is critical and the same goes to having the right group comp which can be a problem for smaller guilds. Plus you have the teams that have been together for months and they would just roll unorganized fresh teams which can be quite discouraging for new teams.

While the rest of the posters have made good points. Cycao has pointed out a good reason to be cautious about what we ask for. It might just not fix the problem in the long run. The problem I'm talking about is inspiring new blood to join pvp and possible start forming groups.

On the other hand, we have our current situation which doesn't welcome new comers at all. Which is why most servers have only perhaps 2-3 guilds doing ranked matches.

You can see on the PTS how cross servers is a good answer to attract more like minded competitive pvpers into their own arena. While the rest of the new comers in pvp start getting a taste and perhaps a fair shot at winning an actual match.

Cross server queue's and/or seperate queue's are probably the only answer. I doubt a full rework of the pvp brackets will happen. So you can only ask for so much.

Also, enough with this you can't get 8 decent geared ppl into a ranked unless they are perfect. This is the case at certain times but not most of the time and you know it. Just the other day I had a 7 stealthy (of varying gear) and a recruit guard team that actually beat several full guild teams. We got roflstomped bad once but won 4 or 5 matches.

Now I know if they make a serious rank system with x server then I along with other serious pvprs wouldn't risk their ranking in this manner but really who the hell cares about your ranking right now lol. It means nothing with the current system.

Cross server queues along with an actual proper matchmaking really will help a lot. Will mean people get matched of people of equal skill (if properly implemented) with cross server queues there to ensure good pops without resorting to pairing together totally mismatched players, outside of super low hours.

As much as I would love this do we think their system can even handle it? the CS thread is full of posts since this last patch about lag spikes are back again. Had my first two last night, first time I seen the red X was not fun during WB farming.

Zhaker, you are so far off.

 

What I want is competition. What you want is a lack of competition so that you can feel better about yourself.

 

I also realize that this game could use more players and that many mmo players are more casual. So for them I want a game that keeps them subscribed and helps them improve.

 

Fighting in a pug against a premade can help me improve since I play at a high lvl already. This is similiar to when I play against people slightly better than me in a sport. However, a new and/or more casual player should not constantly face premades and if they do face a premade it will not help them at all.

 

That would be like me playing against pro basketball players. I wouldn't learn anything and I would just get completely stomped. When you take gear/voice chat/ composition (guard + healer anyone?)/ etc. then this is just no where near a learning experience for the average player.

 

I want competition. I want to make a premade half of the time and then normally fight other premades for more even matches. You want runovers.

PuG vs PuG is not competition. Thats just random boring Death Match.

We get that in lowbies, its only fun because 95% of them do DM in the middle with their current gear and thinking omg i can do so much damage cause I'm in the top 16.

If you think that is fun suggest Call of Duty, Quake Arena live

Stop whinning about 4 players comming into wz's together because it is NOT an assured win when it happens. Having one or two healers on the team against a team that has no healers is a bigger problem. It takes more than 4 players to win a wz, especially when the other 4 with them are noobs who dont know how to play the objectives.

You want wz to be more equal then BW is gonna have to intro a script that makes it that way tanks, dps, and healers on each team.

Zhaker looks at both sides of what I said. I want premade vs premade more than anything. And if this occurs I will be on a premade at least half of the time.

Also, your point is not very good since pug vs pug is more competition than pug vs premade. This is obvious.

So I want a better matchmaking system with more premade vs premade and more pug vs pug and you say this is less competition?

Please think about what you are saying.

As much as I would love this do we think their system can even handle it? the CS thread is full of posts since this last patch about lag spikes are back again. Had my first two last night, first time I seen the red X was not fun during WB farming.

Can their system handle cross server queues? Based on their responses about it being on the back burner in the face of overwhelming support for the idea on the forums, I have to agree with you, and I think they do too. At this point I can't believe it's anything but technical issues holding them up on that front.

Can their system handle a much better matchmaking system though? I think absolutely it can. Cash, awhile ago, gave them one algorithm which shouldn't be too hard to implement. If they don't like that one they can always come up with one of their own. To ensure decent pop times without cross server queues the thing would need to allow the queue to put together teams with greater and greater disparity based on some sort of time factor (i.e. the longer people are in a queue, the further afield the thing will search for valid teammates/opponents). This would still mean the occasional face stomping, especially at off peak hours, but it would still be better than both the nothing we have now, OR split queues.

The best matches, and the most fun ones are the ones that are close. It's in those matches where personal effort and cooperation play a more pivotal role in deciding the outcome. But also, it's tactics which are VERY important. Leading a group away from a node so a teammate can cap is helpful, despite some saying "fight on the node". But premades make personal effort and willingness to cooperate trivial at best.

When you go into a pug, you don't know what you're going to get, and it's up to YOU to work with the rest of the team. That means keeping an eye on the chat window for "inc" calls and responding quickly and appropriately. With many premades, they use voice chat. Thereby making the need to watch the window a mute point. Having preselected roles and makeup, removes the adaptation you need to do in tactics and thereby response times, delay tactics, etc.

In essence, premades remove a large part of what makes it competition. But this NOT the case when it's 2 premades against each other. As each has off setting advantages. But a premade versus a pug just isn't really competition. And I know some may say "it doesn't guarantee a win", which is true, but it sure does increase the odds.

The problem does not stem from what I would call a "casual premade", but comes from a "hardcore premade". And the difference is a hardcore premade is formed from pvp enthusiasts with top level gear queuing for non ranked pvp. Their gear clearing is meant for "top level competition", NOT run of the mill groups. It's the same reason for the longest time, and I don't know why the rules were changed, but up until the last few olympics, professional atheletes were BANNED from competing in the olympics. That's right, once you went pro, you were BANNED from competing. Why? Because it supposedly gave the pros an unfair advantage. But, alas that rule was changed and now even the olympics are a joke. College athletics have a similar rule still in effect. Once you go pro, you CANNOT compete in collegiate athletics anymore. And I agree with this rule. It helps prevent some of the potential abuses.

Part of the root problem is, and has been stated by others, that there isn't a lot of people queuing for ranked. And I can understand why. First is the number of people that can have a consistent group to compete with. Second is the hesitation to venture into an environment where you don't know how well that random player you grouped with will perform, (in the case of advertising to have people form a premade which are required to queue for ranked). And third, the current state of ROFLstomping that already exists. I know for sure I won't get into a group for ranked pvp based solely on the fact that I know that the other team is likely a hard core group with voice chat and other tools, not to mention the fact that my main is only full WH with no "elite WH" yet. And with the current state of pvp balance, or lack thereof, I'm not going to even bother. I don't need the aggravation of getting gang leaped and the soon to follow flurry of 'SMASH". I get enough of that in non-ranked as it is.

If you want more people to queue for ranked, you have to let them have their fun while playing first. Ranked pvp is supposed to be more serious competition. If people are not having fun in regular pvp, they're less likely to queue for ranked. So in essence, it IS premades own fault for hurting the ranked "tier" of pvp. PVP just doesn't stand for Player versus player, it also stands for pug versus pug.

If you are a pug, and you havent found a premade. The problem is you. No lies here, but YOU are the problem. Not the premades.

This is another reason to separate pugs from "elite" players. This is what I'm talking about - everyone will be happy.

I don't think forcing people onto ranked is a good thing. It sounds good on paper in the only option to queue as a group is ranked not everyone who runs premades is ready for ranked. With ranked warzones having BiS is critical and the same goes to having the right group comp which can be a problem for smaller guilds. Plus you have the teams that have been together for months and they would just roll unorganized fresh teams which can be quite discouraging for new teams.

Exactly the same about pugs:

I don't think forcing pugs to play with premades is a good thing. Premades have been together for a months and they just roll unorganised fresh pug teams which can be quite discouraging fro new players.

I want BW to fix it by making a good MATCHMAKING system. That way everyone actually can have a more positive experience. I'll use smaller words if that's so hard for you to understand.

Matchmaking can wait. Let them make separated warzones for pugs first, then they can implement some matchmaking system.

Exactly the same about pugs:

I don't think forcing pugs to play with premades is a good thing. Premades have been together for a months and they just roll unorganised fresh pug teams which can be quite discouraging fro new players.

Point taken but if as a pug you were facing a premade every single game while never having one on your side could be discouraging but that is not happening. I have solo queued enough to know that you have just as good of a chance to have a premade on your team as the same as facing one. I also know that when I am queuing as a group more often than not we are facing a team with at least one premade.

I would also like to add that a fresh team playing a seasoned team in ranked is way worse than any pug vs premade could ever be as my old guild which was mostly PvE would want to run ranked from time to time and I was fortunate enough to be a part of a few of them and lets just say that yeah, never faced more of a beat down in my life.

Zhaker looks at both sides of what I said. I want premade vs premade more than anything. And if this occurs I will be on a premade at least half of the time.

 

Also, your point is not very good since pug vs pug is more competition than pug vs premade. This is obvious.

 

So I want a better matchmaking system with more premade vs premade and more pug vs pug and you say this is less competition?

 

Please think about what you are saying.

Sorry here's what I why Forced Premade vs Premade shouldn't really happen:

1. Not enough premades: I see maybe 2 or 3 premades for 8 Regular WZ matches in Harbinger, SO they're not farming me, and its not like they're 2 shotting me. Unless you want to count 2 people as a premade which I dont even count, premade is 4 ppl, not 3, not 2, but 4.

2. Premades vs Premades do happen often: Everytime I see a premade opposite side I have a 30% chance of a premade on my side. Or If I premade I 50% have a chance to face against another premade, hell dare I say it I go up against a Super queue of 2 to 3 premades of republic about 30%. So if you arent seeing it then its your server imbalance , server population or that the majority of people on your server wisened up and found groups to premade with.

3. PuGs steamroll as well: In PuG vs PuG whoever has the better gear will STEAMROLL and ROFLSTOMP the other PuG more often than not. The difference in STEAMROLLING between PuG and Premade is that Premade will USUALLY want to win fast unless you piss them off vs PUG will ALWAYS want to farm ppl and get alot of DPS to screenshot. Which do you prefer, being farmed and screenshotted? or a game ending fast?

4. Anything that increase queue time is ****ed up: So if this force premade vs premade thing happen on off peak times then it sounds like premade wont be allowed to do and WZ forcing them to split up and solo queue at the same time, to be able to queue together. So NOW they're going to abusing the system, what you going to report them?

5. Why cant you premade? I love how people make this assumption, there is a reason why this happen, and if you think its unfair then group up, I cant see WHY you cant find people or why you keep trying to force yourself to group with a bunch of idiots. Stop this casual ********, you're at 50 that means ur serious end game at this point, if you're not reroll and play class story, stop messing about the end game ppl that want to do 50 WZ PvP or OPs.

I dont premade just to ROFLSTOMP, I premade to AVOID STUPID. If I didnt have STUPIDS, I would gladly PUG it.

So you want to make WZ worse by forcing premade to vs premade fine go ahead, it doesnt affect me IN ANY way cause your asinine assumption is that I WANT TO ROFLSTOMP. Idiot.

I support what Premade does and I PuG 80% of the time. Hell the only RWZ i get is kick ball from my server.

Exactly the same about pugs:

I don't think forcing pugs to play with premades is a good thing. Premades have been together for a months and they just roll unorganised fresh pug teams which can be quite discouraging fro new players.

 

 

 

Matchmaking can wait. Let them make separated warzones for pugs first, then they can implement some matchmaking system.

Oh ok so we'll file you under selfish whiner who doesn't deserve an opinion then. Why can matchmaking wait but it's absolutely crucial for queues to be separated? You deserve to get rolled dude.

Oh ok so we'll file you under selfish whiner who doesn't deserve an opinion then. Why can matchmaking wait but it's absolutely crucial for queues to be separated? You deserve to get rolled dude.

Dude, it looks like we are speaking about the same thing from defferent positions....

IF making matchmaking will involve queues separation, then YES, Bioware should make such system in 2.0.

Or things are just left as they are and players learn to adapt and overcome.

As a premade-player myself I can say there is no way PUGs will ever be able to overcome the advantages of a trained group with TS and dedicated roles.

Seems to me that how he wants to play carries an intrinsic risk of getting stuck with a team of bads against another team which has a premade or two. That is what we like to call a consequence. If he doesn't like the consequences he should maybe consider a different choice.

I am considering a different choice... it is called WoW or GW2 or even DAoC.

When too many of us make this choice (the correct choice for us) than all the worries about Q times will come true. Because the population will plummet as the game dies...