So apparently the story of the new expansion coming in October suggests that the Republic and Empire have both fallen completely at the hands of this 'Eternal Empire.'

Make no mistake, I know full well SWTOR isn't part of Disney Wars

This, and the fact Disney said during SWC this year that Bioware has "created their own fantascic universe" (http://gamerant.com/star-wars-old-republic-canon/) seems to suggest that SWTOR is no longer part of the, I guess you could say, dead EU/"Legends"

I'm somewhat uncertain now. in an interview, one of th devs said that Disney were heavily involved with the making of the expansion, and the story group has been involved in it so far.. it may be that they are planning tie-ins to/from TOR and the new movies, and want to keep it under wraps.

It seems odd that they would be so involved (especially the story group that solely is there to maintain continuity) in a non-canon project

It's possible that's the approach they're taking now, but until I see something in-game that actually contradicts the Legends continuity, I'm running under the assumption it is still "Legends".

By itself, the idea of the invasion by Zakuul and the 'fall' of the Republic doesn't really contradict anything any more than the Republic Dark Age did when that was added into continuity a few years back. But it is possible that as more details of the plot emerge there will be something that is such a glaring departure that it will start to look more like a third timeline than simply 'filling in the gaps' in the Legends timeline.

It's possible that's the approach they're taking now, but until I see something in-game that actually contradicts the Legends continuity, I'm running under the assumption it is still "Legends".

 

By itself, the idea of the invasion by Zakuul and the 'fall' of the Republic doesn't really contradict anything any more than the Republic Dark Age did when that was added into continuity a few years back. But it is possible that as more details of the plot emerge there will be something that is such a glaring departure that it will start to look more like a third timeline than simply 'filling in the gaps' in the Legends timeline.

It is fairly confusing, and if anything I hope that SWTOR will stay in the EU's continuity. The one problem I have at the moment is the cryptic description of the expansion itself.

To quote Lana Beniko's Profile under the KOTFE:

"The Sith Empire and Galactic Republic have fallen. The Jedi and Sith have retreated to their temples. No one remains to stand between the Eternal Empire and the utter destruction of all we hold dear. "

The Sith Empire collapsing is inevitable, story wise. At one point or another I think there's going to be a new Sith Empire where Darth Phobos fits into the EU, followed by Darth Desolous' turn to the dark side.

At this point I'd expect the story to revolve around your character having been freezen in carbonite and taken to an alternative universe where Zakuul's forces wiped out the Empire and Republic alike. With the EU having been kept in line to avoid contradictions, the idea of SWTOR rewritting already existing EU (or "Legends" as it's called now) material comes across as, odd.

I was told yesterday that apparently Bioware are indeed planning on writing over the EU, in order to combine the two factions to reduce queue times

I think whoever told you that was pulling your chain, or was just misinformed. Eric clarified earlier this week that they will not be doing that:

Can you clarify if the player factions will be merged? Will pubs and imps be able to play together in warzones, ops, chat, guilds ect..?

Good question! Factions will not be able to play together in group content, as it is now.

 

-eric

It's possible that's the approach they're taking now, but until I see something in-game that actually contradicts the Legends continuity, I'm running under the assumption it is still "Legends".

 

By itself, the idea of the invasion by Zakuul and the 'fall' of the Republic doesn't really contradict anything any more than the Republic Dark Age did when that was added into continuity a few years back. But it is possible that as more details of the plot emerge there will be something that is such a glaring departure that it will start to look more like a third timeline than simply 'filling in the gaps' in the Legends timeline.

Hadn't heard of the Republic Dark Age before, so I looked it up on Wookieepedia. Hope that's what KOTFE will be like.

I'm somewhat uncertain now. in an interview, one of th devs said that Disney were heavily involved with the making of the expansion, and the story group has been involved in it so far.. it may be that they are planning tie-ins to/from TOR and the new movies, and want to keep it under wraps.

 

It seems odd that they would be so involved (especially the story group that solely is there to maintain continuity) in a non-canon project

No, there is nothing odd about it, they are involved to protect their IP. STO isn't canon either but CBS is involved, they oversee and approve of everything the developers want to add to that game. It is exactly the same situation here

No, there is nothing odd about it, they are involved to protect their IP. STO isn't canon either but CBS is involved, they oversee and approve of everything the developers want to add to that game. It is exactly the same situation here

yup. basicly BW can do what they want to a DEGREE but disney also needs to provide feedback to protect the integrety of the IP. even without the core timeline certin things needs to be controled to ensure the feel is approperate and BW isn't producing a my little pony game with the SW logo

Are people still spreading this misinformation?

This game is set 4,000 years in the past of the movies in a largely undocumented era. So what if some upstart "Eternal Empire" knocked over the Republic for a decade? The history of the Republic is VAST. Ten years is barely a blip on the radar of 25,000, or even the mere 4,000 between "now" and the movies, and easily incorporated into the existing timeline. Can you think of any wars 4,000 years in the past of real life that matter today? Of course not, because 4,000 years is A REALLY LONG TIME! So stop saying this "Eternal Empire" is going to contradict the entirety of the EU because the Republic is a government in exile for a few years of it's multiple tens of thousands.

This game began as EU, has not contradicted the EU in any meaningful way, and will not contradict the EU in any meaningful way with this expansion. Until such time as Bioware expressly states that this game is not part of the EU, it is.

EDIT: Correction to the above, a quick look at the timeline places the game at 3,600 years prior to the movies. I don't think that particularly alters my point, though.

Are people still spreading this misinformation?

 

This game is set 4,000 years in the past of the movies in a largely undocumented era. So what if some upstart "Eternal Empire" knocked over the Republic for a decade? The history of the Republic is VAST. Ten years is barely a blip on the radar of 25,000, or even the mere 4,000 between "now" and the movies, and easily incorporated into the existing timeline. Can you think of any wars 4,000 years in the past of real life that matter today? Of course not, because 4,000 years is A REALLY LONG TIME! So stop saying this "Eternal Empire" is going to contradict the entirety of the EU because the Republic is a government in exile for a few years of it's multiple tens of thousands.

 

This game began as EU, has not contradicted the EU in any meaningful way, and will not contradict the EU in any meaningful way with this expansion. Until such time as Bioware expressly states that this game is not part of the EU, it is.

 

EDIT: Correction to the above, a quick look at the timeline places the game at 3,600 years prior to the movies. I don't think that particularly alters my point, though.

I'm glad someone else knows this

Honestly im desperately hoping that Old Republic will get its own separate continuity. Thats basically what we have now. But I mean officially its own thing. Bane, Vader, Katarn and whatnot are cool and all but I like the future, even the distant future, to be unkown.

Technically Bane is part of the Old Republic time line, the book says it takes place during the time of the old republic but after TOR

Maybe a very hardcore fan can correct me but from what I've read, George Lucas always saw the EU as a "Parellel Universe" He never read it or considered it part of his world when making the movies, maybe he took something here or there, I don't know, but from what he said his movies were one universe, and the comics, gamers etc were a completely different universe that he allowed to exist with the name Star Wars because it made him money, and the fans liked it as well.

So Disney coming out and saying that SWTOR is a different universe or whatever you want to call it, well, then it's not that much different than when George wasin charge, right?

Maybe a very hardcore fan can correct me but from what I've read, George Lucas always saw the EU as a "Parellel Universe" He never read it or considered it part of his world when making the movies, maybe he took something here or there, I don't know, but from what he said his movies were one universe, and the comics, gamers etc were a completely different universe that he allowed to exist with the name Star Wars because it made him money, and the fans liked it as well.

 

So Disney coming out and saying that SWTOR is a different universe or whatever you want to call it, well, then it's not that much different than when George wasin charge, right?

The biggest change between the old system, which was divided between what was called G-Canon (the movies and any project Lucas was directly involved in like the Clone Wars show) and C-Canon (the Expanded Universe of novels, games, and comics) was that while Lucas's own projects would treat the EU as a 'parallel universe', the majority of content coming out on a regular basis was C-Canon - which treated other C-Canon works as established parts of the continuity.

Now, under the new Canon vs Legends system, all the new novels, games, comics, etc. are also part of the Canon (what used to be G-Canon) and ignoring, or merely taking inspiration from, the Legends continuity (formerly C-Canon).

When a novel or comic or game came out prior to the changeover, it was definitively set in a universe where the events of SWTOR - the return of the Sith Empire, the Great Galactic War, etc, - were an established part of that universe's history. Now, the novels, comics, and games that come out are free to contradict those events - they only have to remain consistent with the other works of the new Canon.

The biggest change between the old system, which was divided between what was called G-Canon (the movies and any project Lucas was directly involved in like the Clone Wars show) and C-Canon (the Expanded Universe of novels, games, and comics) was that while Lucas's own projects would treat the EU as a 'parallel universe', the majority of content coming out on a regular basis was C-Canon - which treated other C-Canon works as established parts of the continuity.

 

Now, under the new Canon vs Legends system, all the new novels, games, comics, etc. are also part of the Canon (what used to be G-Canon) and ignoring, or merely taking inspiration from, the Legends continuity (formerly C-Canon).

 

When a novel or comic or game came out prior to the changeover, it was definitively set in a universe where the events of SWTOR - the return of the Sith Empire, the Great Galactic War, etc, - were an established part of that universe's history. Now, the novels, comics, and games that come out are free to contradict those events - they only have to remain consistent with the other works of the new Canon.

I really don't give a rats *** if SWTOR is Legends, like you confirmed, according to the creator himself SWTOR never happened to him, or happened in another universe.

What worries me is that Disney might not allow any new Legends content and intend to phase it out, I'd love the Old Republic franchise to continue beyond SWTOR in future years, since there are millions of fans that love this Era, there recently was a poll in the official SW page to pick a character to make a 6 inch statue and Revan won by a landslide, none of the other characters, including Disney's Rebel series even came close to him.

I really don't give a rats *** if SWTOR is Legends, like you confirmed, according to the creator himself SWTOR never happened to him, or happened in another universe.

 

What worries me is that Disney might not allow any new Legends content and intend to phase it out, I'd love the Old Republic franchise to continue beyond SWTOR in future years, since there are millions of fans that love this Era, there recently was a poll in the official SW page to pick a character to make a 6 inch statue and Revan won by a landslide, none of the other characters, including Disney's Rebel series even came close to him.

While I think the importance of "the creator" and his approach has been pretty overstated in general, I have no problem with Legends being separate from the new movies or the other stuff in the new Canon coming out. Really it was the only sensible move to make with new movies coming out set in the post-RotJ era.

My only gripe is that they aren't continuing the Legends brand as an actual Alternate Universe continuity - like Marvel does with its Mainstream and Ultimate continuities - and they have no plans to do so in the future.

I like a lot of the Canon stuff that is coming out just fine and I'm certainly looking forward to the new movies, but I would pay good money for more Old Republic stories, more Legacy era stories (my personal favorite), and the Sword of the Jedi series.

Now, the novels, comics, and games that come out are free to contradict those events - they only have to remain consistent with the other works of the new Canon.

That's odd. I was always under the influence the EU, despite its non canon status, made sure not to contradict itself, so the idea of KOTFE erasing the post-SWTOR events of the EU seems odd. At the moment I think SWTOR is still part of the EU. Also, why does SWTOR have to remain consistent with Disney Wars if they're two seperate continuities?

That's odd. I was always under the influence the EU, despite its non canon status, made sure not to contradict itself, so the idea of KOTFE erasing the post-SWTOR events of the EU seems odd. At the moment I think SWTOR is still part of the EU. Also, why does SWTOR have to remain consistent with Disney Wars if they're two seperate continuities?

The old EU contradicts itself a LOT. They try not to, but they do.

Hell, Lucas contradicts HIMSELF a lot...

There is nothing post SWTOR to erase. There is around 1600 years between now and the "next thing," that is a LOT of time for things to happen.

The old EU contradicts itself a LOT. They try not to, but they do.

 

Hell, Lucas contradicts HIMSELF a lot...

 

There is nothing post SWTOR to erase. There is around 1600 years between now and the "next thing," that is a LOT of time for things to happen.

There's only about 2 centuries left until Darth Desolous forms his Sith army. By the way, in what ways does the EU contradict itself?

There's only about 2 centuries left until Darth Desolous forms his Sith army. By the way, in what ways does the EU contradict itself?

A ton of occasions, actually. Mainly due to authors fighting over aspects of the lore the disagree with or with each other.

Some things come to mind:

-The shipping war around Luke Skywalker in the Bantam Era. One minute he is intrigued by Mara Jade and has feeling for her when written by Zahn. The next he dreams to bone Callista and Mara is whorring around the galaxy, getting laid with Lando. And then Zahn takes control back and Luke is in love with Mara and it's almost like Callista doesn't exist.

-In most of the Clone Wars era books, Obi-Wan is a dedicated commander who cares for his troops and respects them. When Karen Traviss writes him, he is a glory seeker who gleefully sends clones to the meat grinder so Palpatine can pin a new shiny medal on his tunic.

-Traviss again. In most "Legacy of the Force" novels by her, Mandalorians are total ******es. Jedi killing-machines who train Jaina in preparation of her fighting Darth Caedus. Come the final novel of the series, by Troy Dennings, Jaina doesn't use a single of the Mandos teaching to beat Caedus and doesn't even think about them when just a book earlier she was fawning over how great they were and how awesome their fighting moves were.

-What about the Death Star plans. Depending on the story, they are stolen by Kyle Katarn or Bria Tharen or even Rianna Saren. Always from a different planet but around the same time.

-What about Coruscant Nights 1 which places Even Piell's death after Episode III only for him to die before in the "Citadel" Arc of Clone Wars?

-And what of the Clone Wars told by Timothy Zahn? A war where the Republic is an upstanding governement fighting an army of crazed cloned Jedis?

The EU is filled with continuity errors.

A ton of occasions, actually. Mainly due to authors fighting over aspects of the lore the disagree with or with each other.

Some things come to mind:

-The shipping war around Luke Skywalker in the Bantam Era. One minute he is intrigued by Mara Jade and has feeling for her when written by Zahn. The next he dreams to bone Callista and Mara is whorring around the galaxy, getting laid with Lando. And then Zahn takes control back and Luke is in love with Mara and it's almost like Callista doesn't exist.

-In most of the Clone Wars era books, Obi-Wan is a dedicated commander who cares for his troops and respects them. When Karen Traviss writes him, he is a glory seeker who gleefully sends clones to the meat grinder so Palpatine can pin a new shiny medal on his tunic.

-Traviss again. In most "Legacy of the Force" novels by her, Mandalorians are total ******es. Jedi killing-machines who train Jaina in preparation of her fighting Darth Caedus. Come the final novel of the series, by Troy Dennings, Jaina doesn't use a single of the Mandos teaching to beat Caedus and doesn't even think about them when just a book earlier she was fawning over how great they were and how awesome their fighting moves were.

-What about the Death Star plans. Depending on the story, they are stolen by Kyle Katarn or Bria Tharen or even Rianna Saren. Always from a different planet but around the same time.

-What about Coruscant Nights 1 which places Even Piell's death after Episode III only for him to die before in the "Citadel" Arc of Clone Wars?

-And what of the Clone Wars told by Timothy Zahn? A war where the Republic is an upstanding governement fighting an army of crazed cloned Jedis?

 

The EU is filled with continuity errors.

-There was never any evidence Luke 'felt' anything beyond compassion for Mara when Zahn first wrote her. Zahn was not rushing her into a relationship. It was his eventual goal but they didn't start there. There was no reason Luke should have waited and neither consciously realized those feelings. He let go of Callista in Planet of Twilight. It was years before he connects with Mara and years after before he realizes what ever happened to Callista. Relationships are messy. Luke's is no different.

-Mara's deal with Lando wasn't a relationship. She was undercover with him looking for Jorj Cardas.

-Karen Traviss does not directly write Obi-Wan much. She mostly uses other characters like Kal who have direct biases to color their view of Jedi.

-The Jedi seek to capture, not kill as much as possible. Jaina didn't hold back, at all, even though it was her brother. So she did learn what she got from the Mandos. The most important thing she learned was NOT battle techniques. It was to let go and not show compassion or hesitate to go all the way.

- It's an established fact that the plans were broken up. One set had engineering, one had things like weapon emplacements and one was an updated set of the others. It took all of them to plan the attack. (Knowing where to hit doesn't help much if you get blown up for not knowing where the guns are protecting it.)

- Coruscant Knights came first. It was due to Disney that it was never given time to be retconned in. In fact (and this is a suspicion I'll admit) I suspect it was the first direct evidence someone on the inside was sabotaging the EU, specifically so people could claim it was contradictory. I don't count Ahsoka padawan of Anakin thing because whatever is 'implied' there is no direct comment anywhere saying he never had one.

- The war WAS with clones. They overpowered and the war named after them. However there WERE cloned crazed Jedi as well as cloned Morgukai Niktos on the Separatist side, part of an experiment (comics) the Jedi clone experiments were shown in Skyewalkers