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Outfit slots - White and Green quality items no longer able to be dyed.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Bug Reports
Outfit slots - White and Green quality items no longer able to be dyed.
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CommunityTeam's Avatar


CommunityTeam
01.13.2021 , 11:08 AM | #41 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Thanks to everyone who asked for updates on this thread!

We took a look and the dye slots on these old outfits are currently working as they should.

To give some context, these outfits were not built to accept dyes, and when the Outfitter was released, there was a bug that allowed dyes to be used on outfits that didn't have a dye slot. Unfortunately, these outfits didn't actually support dyes under-the-hood, and so in many cases, when dyes were used on outfits, the dye would not actually be applied, and the item would be consumed (it did work in some cases, though that was technically accidental).

Because we know dyeing is an important facet of character customization, in recent years we've leaned harder in the direction of making more and more outfits dyeable, but the older armors that were not created to support dyes will still remain so.
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BenKatarn's Avatar


BenKatarn
01.13.2021 , 12:36 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityTeam View Post

To give some context, these outfits were not built to accept dyes, and when the Outfitter was released, there was a bug that allowed dyes to be used on outfits that didn't have a dye slot. Unfortunately, these outfits didn't actually support dyes under-the-hood, and so in many cases, when dyes were used on outfits, the dye would not actually be applied, and the item would be consumed (it did work in some cases, though that was technically accidental).
I have never, ever, seen that this didn't somehow work or that people reported that putting in a dye grant the desired effect. Whether or not it was intended that these old pieces of gear had a dye slot or not, the fact was that it worked. In a lot of cases, the same armor sets and meshes also had similiar or exact same-looking versions of Prototype (blue) or higher rarity, where this also worked just fine, so saying that these items were not supposed to have working dyes is just plain wrong.

Not to mention that even after you "fixed" this "bug", I still have characters with stamped outfits of items that shouldn't accept dye modules that still work the same way prior to your "fix".

Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityTeam View Post

Because we know dyeing is an important facet of character customization, in recent years we've leaned harder in the direction of making more and more outfits dyeable, but the older armors that were not created to support dyes will still remain so.
So the dev team's solution is... to do nothing. Not "bug" the outfit designer again, not go back into the database and add dye slots to those old items. Just plain nothing. It infuriates me, honestly.

This feature, just like people screaming for weapons to be included into the outfit designer, or wanting to have old endgame and PVP gear be added back in, is to keep old aesthetics relevant. It's about preserving looks, but it seems that, just like with so many features introduced into the game, things eventually get abandoned for no reason other than apathy, or because it's too much work.
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arunav's Avatar


arunav
01.13.2021 , 01:55 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by BenKatarn View Post
I have never, ever, seen that this didn't somehow work or that people reported that putting in a dye grant the desired effect. Whether or not it was intended that these old pieces of gear had a dye slot or not, the fact was that it worked. In a lot of cases, the same armor sets and meshes also had similiar or exact same-looking versions of Prototype (blue) or higher rarity, where this also worked just fine, so saying that these items were not supposed to have working dyes is just plain wrong.

Not to mention that even after you "fixed" this "bug", I still have characters with stamped outfits of items that shouldn't accept dye modules that still work the same way prior to your "fix".



So the dev team's solution is... to do nothing. Not "bug" the outfit designer again, not go back into the database and add dye slots to those old items. Just plain nothing. It infuriates me, honestly.

This feature, just like people screaming for weapons to be included into the outfit designer, or wanting to have old endgame and PVP gear be added back in, is to keep old aesthetics relevant. It's about preserving looks, but it seems that, just like with so many features introduced into the game, things eventually get abandoned for no reason other than apathy, or because it's too much work.
I have to agree here.

There was never a piece of green or white gear I dyed where it didn't work just like any other piece of in-game gear. And the ones I did and kept in outfit tabs still work fine, though we can't ever remove or alter them, since the change was made years ago.

I recall at the time most players, whether correct or not, thought BW just didn't want us dyeing simple, common drops into something nicer looking, and directing us to the CM for aesthetics instead. This was especially true for white-quality drops, which are generally the simplest looks in the game, but could be used in combination with dyes and other gear to make something much more attractive.

In any case, no matter why it was changed, I think the overwhelming majority of players would prefer it if green and white-quality items were able to be dyed again.
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VarKoE's Avatar


VarKoE
01.13.2021 , 02:35 PM | #44
Do you really think the majority of players would want an outfit to be dyeable that would consume but not dye an armor. You may not have seen it, but I bet others have.

I bet those saying want it open would demand a refund if they lost an expensive dye.

The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar


The-Kaitou-Kid
01.13.2021 , 03:33 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by VarKoE View Post
Do you really think the majority of players would want an outfit to be dyeable that would consume but not dye an armor. You may not have seen it, but I bet others have.

I bet those saying want it open would demand a refund if they lost an expensive dye.
Why does it have to be an all or nothing thing? The game can clearly identify armors that don't have a native dye slot, why not give the player a warning first?

The issue here, which is why I'm severely disappointed by this change and the lack of willingness to try and alleviate the issues it causes, is that there are unique armor looks that simply can't be recreated now that this change has been made. A Sentinel of mine had an armor dyed through this method and I found out the hard way it got changed when I accidentally overrode the set. I like the new set better (now that it's fixed), but it still sucks that I can't go back to the old set that I used for the character while leveling.

Having a middle ground option where the game warns the player that the armor doesn't natively support dye modules and may not display them fully would be a good compromise here, especially since I imagine those armors that don't work also don't show properly in preview. Seeing the warning would be a cue to double check in the preview window. Players that don't listen to that were at least warned ahead of time, in game, about the possibility. That allows for players to get the unique looks some of these armors can provide while giving a buffer for the issue the devs were trying to solve by "fixing" the original bug.

I don't see the harm in trying to make a compromise here since these are armors that otherwise aren't coming back. We're talking some of the simpler sets in the game, found early on, that just never got a dye slot. These aren't going to be rereleased later on down the line with dye slots added on. A compromise to let them have a dye while warning of the issues lets the most people be happy in my eyes.
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DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
01.13.2021 , 08:33 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityTeam View Post
Thanks to everyone who asked for updates on this thread!

We took a look and the dye slots on these old outfits are currently working as they should.

To give some context, these outfits were not built to accept dyes, and when the Outfitter was released, there was a bug that allowed dyes to be used on outfits that didn't have a dye slot. Unfortunately, these outfits didn't actually support dyes under-the-hood, and so in many cases, when dyes were used on outfits, the dye would not actually be applied, and the item would be consumed (it did work in some cases, though that was technically accidental).

Because we know dyeing is an important facet of character customization, in recent years we've leaned harder in the direction of making more and more outfits dyeable, but the older armors that were not created to support dyes will still remain so.
That's a bad answer, but it is at least an answer, so thanks for that much.

I'm not sure why we were strung along for almost two years instead of just being told up front that this wasn't going to be changed. Can't say I'm happy about that, but the new transparency is nice. At least now I know not to remove the pieces I have dyed this way. Sucks for anyone who wants to use the older armors though.

Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityTeam View Post
Hi all,

Our team is still working on the dye bug with the white and green items.

For now, there is no additional information to provide you. We'll let you know when we know more.

I'm also not sure why it was referred to as a bug in the last update. That gave a lot of people (myself included) some hope that it would be fixed eventually. It also wasn't included in patch notes in the patch where it changed which would have avoided the need for us to have to ask about it for three years.

Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
Why does it have to be an all or nothing thing? The game can clearly identify armors that don't have a native dye slot, why not give the player a warning first?

The issue here, which is why I'm severely disappointed by this change and the lack of willingness to try and alleviate the issues it causes, is that there are unique armor looks that simply can't be recreated now that this change has been made. A Sentinel of mine had an armor dyed through this method and I found out the hard way it got changed when I accidentally overrode the set. I like the new set better (now that it's fixed), but it still sucks that I can't go back to the old set that I used for the character while leveling.

Having a middle ground option where the game warns the player that the armor doesn't natively support dye modules and may not display them fully would be a good compromise here, especially since I imagine those armors that don't work also don't show properly in preview. Seeing the warning would be a cue to double check in the preview window. Players that don't listen to that were at least warned ahead of time, in game, about the possibility. That allows for players to get the unique looks some of these armors can provide while giving a buffer for the issue the devs were trying to solve by "fixing" the original bug.

I don't see the harm in trying to make a compromise here since these are armors that otherwise aren't coming back. We're talking some of the simpler sets in the game, found early on, that just never got a dye slot. These aren't going to be rereleased later on down the line with dye slots added on. A compromise to let them have a dye while warning of the issues lets the most people be happy in my eyes.
this is a good solution but one i don't expect to see given how long it took just to get an answer about what happened

Regardless, thanks to those involved in getting an answer here. I do appreciate the time you took out of your day to get back to us and don't mean to seem ungrateful. It seems like communication has been a bit better recently and I hope that trend continues.

The next step might be to ensure that changes make their way into patch notes.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
01.14.2021 , 01:44 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by BenKatarn View Post
This feature, just like people screaming for weapons to be included into the outfit designer
No, no, no, a thousand times no.

Not *in* Outfit Designer, but in their own system that's like Outfit Designer but not part of it.

Why? Because my characters' weapons are not part of their outfits and I want to be able to switch weapon look and armour look independently of each other.
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Malibbu's Avatar


Malibbu
01.15.2021 , 11:55 AM | #48
Thank you for the information. Though i do not think that everything is right actually.
I can understand that the color may not apply correctly for loot items, but Craftable items should not apply to this rule.
I used to be able to dye some circlet items coming from craft, but not anymore.
You know i used to think by *if this is working, do not change it* but it seems that recently SWTOR apply a strange rule and the effect for us is more breaking that working.

So what ? are you slowly going to remove all the RPing possibilities? actually the last choices you made is making the game generic and not particular. I do not see what SWTOR could gain from baring people to enjoy the game with little things.

Lately i am avoiding the starting zones and chapters because of poor decisions (companions outfit limited by a guest gating, colors limited).

Hear me, you would have done this after one year or so i could have understand and accept, but after 9 years you decide to apply correctifs on something that was great and enjoyable when i still encounter little bugs that would really need your attention.

On a different point, you know that some outfits does not work well with movements and rather than create and adapt new models to avoid that, you keep creating the same models, since 9 years. Are you limited on creativity by the structures of the game ?

Well, i hope honnestly that you will bring another solution to the gating companions and the color systems.

THank you


Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityTeam View Post
Thanks to everyone who asked for updates on this thread!

We took a look and the dye slots on these old outfits are currently working as they should.

To give some context, these outfits were not built to accept dyes, and when the Outfitter was released, there was a bug that allowed dyes to be used on outfits that didn't have a dye slot. Unfortunately, these outfits didn't actually support dyes under-the-hood, and so in many cases, when dyes were used on outfits, the dye would not actually be applied, and the item would be consumed (it did work in some cases, though that was technically accidental).

Because we know dyeing is an important facet of character customization, in recent years we've leaned harder in the direction of making more and more outfits dyeable, but the older armors that were not created to support dyes will still remain so.

Raistalion's Avatar


Raistalion
01.16.2021 , 05:01 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityTeam View Post
Thanks to everyone who asked for updates on this thread!

We took a look and the dye slots on these old outfits are currently working as they should.

To give some context, these outfits were not built to accept dyes, and when the Outfitter was released, there was a bug that allowed dyes to be used on outfits that didn't have a dye slot. Unfortunately, these outfits didn't actually support dyes under-the-hood, and so in many cases, when dyes were used on outfits, the dye would not actually be applied, and the item would be consumed (it did work in some cases, though that was technically accidental).

Because we know dyeing is an important facet of character customization, in recent years we've leaned harder in the direction of making more and more outfits dyeable, but the older armors that were not created to support dyes will still remain so.
Why is it that we are seeing all these changes that take away from our customization option. I understand that these might be considered "bugs" but to use a meme these do seem more like features. I suspect it is only a tiny majority that are unhappy if they misuse a Dye or loose a "expensive" (in Credits terms) world drop item in this manner. I would imagine though that the vast majority of people who do Dye White/Green items are the long time RPers that have all sorts of experience with the costume designer, are aiming for specific looks, and are otherwise accepting of maybe loosing some Credits if they make a mistake.

Please stop just taking stuff from what is an option and try to find a replacement solution instead... and seeing that its unlikely from your comment anyone intends to go back an rebuild all the older items to accept new dyes then this solution was probably the lowest hanging fruit for dev time.
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Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
01.18.2021 , 04:27 PM | #50
Here's the deal. This response doesn't seem to have been answered by anyone familiar with the game prior to dyes or the outfit designer.

Prior to 2.1 NO ARMOR could be dyed. None of it. Dyes didn't exist. Dye slots were added to tons of old armor, but they only added them to moddable armor because the outfit designer didn't exist so they didn't think anyone would bother dying low level non-moddable armor. They could have added dye slots to un-moddable armor, but chose not to. It was a choice, not a technical difficulty.

When 3.2 rolled around and the Outfit Designer came out ALL armor could be dyed in outfit stamps, even armor without dye slots. In the years when we could dye those un-moddable pieces in outfit designer stamps, not one person ever reported having a problem with the dye not taking.

Then about 4 years ago they did a stealth change which made the game worse for a lot of people. Had this change really been an intentional fix to a bug with dying non-moddable armor in outfit stamps, surely they would have said so before now?

They could go back and add dye slots to the gear that doesn't have them, much like they have slowly added tuning slots to weapons that don't have them. If they want to. But they don't. So they made up a plausible excuse so they can shut us up.
My name is Milind. I checked it again and can confirm you there is no bug with any companion in the game.