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A pressing matter

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xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
01.09.2021 , 01:35 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
If you look at the pic here, you can see it's not just 'street sweeping' It's definitely an abuse of the system, and this guild/player should be held accountable for it. The original version should definitely be forwarded to the CM's
Removing the points from a player who got kicked or left won't affect the decent people/guilds that are doing CQ properly,
Any hard-wired programming to curb that behavior will also dent the decent people/guilds, going back to my original post here, where guilds merge.

Can you imagine, two guilds with hundreds of people wishing to merge, but it'll take ungodly long, weeks perhaps, because there's a daily cap on invites? We had not two, but three huge guilds merge on the Oasis server in Everquest 2 (originally all one guild of 1,500 people in Everquest 1 from the Nameless Server trying to find each other again after Eq2 was released in 2004). It was mess even then, and we didn't have such a cap. I shudder to think how long that would have taken with one.

There's no good way to finesse such a limitation as both mentioned by the OP as well as suggested in another thread about capping or slowing down the number of invites. Somehow, some way, such a limitation will screw over bonafide, honest guilds and their members.
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DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
01.09.2021 , 04:52 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
/snip
I understand what you are saying, and I'm agreeing that you can't limit the invites because of the issues it can cause, as you have so rightly pointed out. I used the pic as an illustration of bad behaviour that has happened, and should be looked at by CM's. But I don't agree with limiting invites, just if people have proof that someone is abusing the system, something should be done about that person/guild., not hardwired in to the game. I was also agreeing that if people are kicked, the points they've accrued should be removed too, in the hope that it stops that behaviour.
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JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
01.12.2021 , 12:10 PM | #13 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
and should be looked at by CM's.
We are aware and are in the process of gathering data. We are appreciative of everyone who have sent in reports.
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Zechalakazam's Avatar


Zechalakazam
01.12.2021 , 05:14 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
I was also agreeing that if people are kicked, the points they've accrued should be removed too, in the hope that it stops that behaviour.
I also agree with this, its a simple solution as far as a user see it but idk if its hard for the dev to implement it. In turn will make people who ninja invites think twice about doing that.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
01.12.2021 , 06:59 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
We are aware and are in the process of gathering data. We are appreciative of everyone who have sent in reports.
Thank you Jackie, hopefully it stops this behaviour. There is another thing, which comes close to blackmail is guilds that demand that a guildie make a certain amount of CQ points. There is a guild on SF which is demanding that all members make 100kl points each week, or be kicked. This in my opinion is blackmail, and bullying. I know 100k can be made easily enough, but if you have multiple alts, and/or guilds that need to get over the 500k min, for the guild to succeed, is this not making that more difficult, not to mention this guild basically gets all the titles, etc.

The problem is, what we've seen here already is that mega guilds are exerting more and more pressure,
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Kaveat's Avatar


Kaveat
01.12.2021 , 08:52 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
.
The requirement in and of itself is neither blackmail, nor bullying. You are talking about a common practice in a conquest guild, and hitting a set quota to retain your membership in an active origination is a practice older than most civilizations.

How they choose to go about enforcing those requirements may be another issue entirely, but that is not the matter at hand here, nor is this the medium to be discussing such things. Put such concerns into a PM with whatever evidence you have to Jackie or one of the devs to look into.

Either way, if you don't like the requirements, or how they choose to go about enforcing them, leave! No matter what excuses you maintain to justify your continued presence there, by choosing to remain you are supporting such structures by default.

In the end it is up to each individual player to decide wither or not they want to remain in such an environment.
It's not like anyone is being held hostage in their home and being forced to partake in these things.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
not to mention this guild basically gets all the titles, etc.
This is not the fault of any guild, nor how they choose to function. It is down to the piss poor design of the conquest system and BW's failure /refusal to change it, end of story.
Fix the problem, not the blame!
Quit throwing cause & effect grenades at players because of a system that is still largely broken.
[end of line]

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
01.13.2021 , 12:55 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaveat View Post
The requirement in and of itself is neither blackmail, nor bullying. You are talking about a common practice in a conquest guild, and hitting a set quota to retain your membership in an active origination is a practice older than most civilizations.
Actually it is. Expecting someone to do their best, and get cq on a char is one thing, but to expect someone to get twice what is needed, or be removed is another, especially when they know their guild is the one that will always win. It's not as bad as the main issue here, but it's still bad. If you can't see that, that's fine,

As for sending stuff on, this is just merely a public awareness campaign to let people know what is happening, and hoping that maybe they'll see the error of this, and not implement it.
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Darittha's Avatar


Darittha
01.13.2021 , 01:09 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
We are aware and are in the process of gathering data. We are appreciative of everyone who have sent in reports.
The guild doing these mass ninja ginvites has been going by the rule: use them, then lose them. They do mass ninja inviting to farm the conquest numbers from low level players, but then right before conquest turns over on tuesday, they kick people out again, denying them the weekly conquest rewards - one of their officers actually brags about it.

I suggest that if person leaves the guild for any reason (kick or just /gquit) then the guild loses whatever conquest points said person made while inside the guild(while keeping their personal cq score), second part was limiting number of guild invites per day to maybe 30? ->that is more than enough even for the biggest guilds, but it would effectively prevent cq points farming by just ninja ginviting countless low lvl newbies etc.

Can u imagine being fresh to Swtor, start the new game and instantly get spammed by ninja ginvites from this guild? And if you join u get forced to farm conquest point or youll get kicked out? What a great experience this guild is providing new players with their conquest farming. Treating them like nothing more than machines to farm the cq point numbers.

Phazonfreak's Avatar


Phazonfreak
01.13.2021 , 03:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Darittha View Post
I suggest that if person leaves the guild for any reason (kick or just /gquit) then the guild loses whatever conquest points said person made while inside the guild(while keeping their personal cq score).
I suggest to only deduct the Conquest points from the guild ledger if the member is kicked from the guild and not if he/she leaves on his/her own accord. Otherwise the guilds will start to spread decoy members to their competition and sabotage or blackmail them right before Conquest review and either demand credits or rank in the guild or simply leave and take the points with them.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
01.13.2021 , 07:30 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
I suggest to only deduct the Conquest points from the guild ledger if the member is kicked from the guild and not if he/she leaves on his/her own accord. Otherwise the guilds will start to spread decoy members to their competition and sabotage or blackmail them right before Conquest review and either demand credits or rank in the guild or simply leave and take the points with them.
Considering the way some guilds are behaving these days I think that would be a better suggestion.
{stupid is a hard barrier}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlVrbO_mAU&t=19s My Coruscant stronghold
Click for free goodies 💖💖💖💖