You literally pay people to do things for you. As for proof, I have a surprise lined up. Your justifications for being a buyer are sad, it's like if a runner can't beat Usain Bolt, he says it's because he can't exercise 5 days a week because he's busy, so he takes steroids. You also state " If you are comparing an imaginary computer environment where you achieve stuff by sitting, clicking and pressing keys on an keyboard then you got some issues mate." Regardless of the medium, there is measurable merit involved, like working one's *** off to clear Gods with a set team among others, and you have not met those criteria. You paid a team to do something for you, plain and simple. You actively try to demean playing this game, meanwhile, you seem to care a great deal, considering you feel you deserve to be up on a leaderboard with people who don't buy sales, which you just admitted to. If you wish to be so transparent, then every time you update a score, tell us how many points you bought. You'll get a nice asterisk next to your name and everyone can judge. You also try to obfuscate in your last example, meanwhile, any criticism you make is inherently invalid as you PAID to have an operation done for you. Hell, if Blinks or myself was like you, we'd be done, save for login rewards. But I refuse to ever give up my pride, if nothing is done here regarding your bought score and any others, you can have this forum all to yourself, I refuse to participate at that point.

 

Your comparison to Usain Bolt isnt the valid either. I was proggressing on Gods with a great guild back then which was raiding from 10 pm and that suited me, but sadly, as many others, this guild fell apart later on. On the contrary you guys seem to care a great deal about this, when you have started this discussion! It seems you only want the 2 of you here

 

I have even removed the achievement points and the link from my signature, which originated in a discussion in the PVP section. That was to show that I do not show off with this. I am able to provide the points I have gotten with "sales", but I do not see the point in that. If the owner of the thread tells me to I will consider it, maybe even also leave, I do not need this either. So he can chose either me or you.

 

If you consider it pride to gain pixels with hard work please, be my guest, I have far more important things to do in the real life than to spend hours, days, weeks, months on it. I do not value this software over my personal real life. My main reply was to Blinks regarding "cheating", but for me cheating is only if you for example pay a Dev, which would just click the achievements for you. Thats how I see cheating and I am sure that is not possible so cheating is out of the question. As I said, I wonder how you got your PVP achievements.

I apologize to you good sir, sometimes I am a terrible sarcasm detector.

 

Apologies accepted my friend

Your comparison to Usain Bolt isnt the valid either. I was proggressing on Gods with a great guild back then which was raiding from 10 pm and that suited me, but sadly, as many others, this guild fell apart later on. On the contrary you guys seem to care a great deal about this, when you have started this discussion! It seems you only want the 2 of you here

 

I have even removed the achievement points and the link from my signature, which originated in a discussion in the PVP section. That was to show that I do not show off with this. I am able to provide the points I have gotten with "sales", but I do not see the point in that. If the owner of the thread tells me to I will consider it, maybe even also leave, I do not need this either. So he can chose either me or you.

 

If you consider it pride to gain pixels with hard work please, be my guest, I have far more important things to do in the real life than to spend hours, days, weeks, months on it. I do not value this software over my personal real life. My main reply was to Blinks regarding "cheating", but for me cheating is only if you for example pay a Dev, which would just click the achievements for you. Thats how I see cheating and I am sure that is not possible so cheating is out of the question. As I said, I wonder how you got your PVP achievements.

 

All I want is a fair competition. If you passed me and bought nothing, my hat would go off to you and you would have nothing but respect from me, as is the case with Blinks. Everyone on this list who has legit killed every boss they have an achievement for, I'm glad you're here. I wouldn't mind being dead last if everyone else EARNED it. You're absolutely right, we care a great deal about this, I certainly do, and you acting like you don't when you defend your buying ways. You also use the fallacy of defaulting to real life when you HAVE NO ARGUMENT. You know what you did, you bought runs plain and simple. Part of the game is finding a team. If I never kill Scyva and Izax, but I had the skill to do so, yeah I'd be annoyed, but the onus is on me to find people to do it with and work hard at it. You mention not counting PVP yet here on this very forum it's counted for you. It would be a mathematical impossibility for you to approach this score without it. As for my PvP achievements, I hacked nothing, didn't pay people for anything, and met the criteria. Maybe you did nothing wrong as well for those achieves, but that's not what I'm discussing. I'm discussing you paying people to carry/do operations for you, the most prestigious achievement category left. By your logic, I could edit the game files and give myself 2x damage in a raid, but I didn't pay a dev, so it's not cheating. That is a ridiculous argument and you know it. You have no arguments for what you've done, all you do is deflect and obfuscate from the simple fact you haven't earned the same achieves many, many people are working tirelessly for. You think irl is so much better? Good for you, spend more time there and less belittling people for finding meaning and fun in an activity.

Don't mind me but why do you even care you got more points than Mero anyway

Don't mind me but why do you even care you got more points than Mero anyway

 

It's not about who has more points, my friend, it's about what's right. It's not just me, but plenty of people, including yourself who have earned what they have. If someone had all the same clears as you but bought them yet claimed they were your equal or better, that would be very wrong. I know many people like myself who enjoy earning what they have, and to see people like this show up and claim purchasing runs is equal to earning them is very disheartening, and sets a dangerous precedent. He could have only 2k points, but if they're all bought ops ones, I would take equal issue with them.

I am very disappointed in the behavior on this thread and these actions have brought shame to us as achievement hunters

All I want is a fair competition.

 

Thats exactly the issue, I have no team and I have that situation you speak of "If I never kill Scyva and Izax, but I had the skill to do so, yeah I'd be annoyed" but I wanted to do something with it, regardless. Sorry, I just dont take "no" for an answer.

 

If you have no argument you also avoid the answer, you didnt say how you got the PVP achievements. You didnt hack and pay anyone, so how?

 

As I said before, you have your opinion, I have mine, sadly neither you or me will convince one another. For me the achievement is reached when it pops in the game. One exception is when its really hacked or game edited, otherwise its fine. So as I said, its not up to us to decide this. I can live on without posting here, if its not desired by the thread owner.

i had no issues with you until you started to harass smw and ruin gsf for our members, you set yourself up for this situation Edited December 30, 2020 by RikuvonDrake

rip the thread got nuked. If the posts seem weirdly phrased, several of mine were removed which made the discussion make sense. I disagree with them being removed, I did not attack anyone personally. Though if nothing else, it's been a real learning experience Edited December 31, 2020 by lordoftransform
Clarity

This isn't what had I in mind when I hoped for more thread activity, but I guess it'll have to do.

 

Personally I've never really had an issue with sale runs. I've never done it myself but if you consider it as your best option and can live with it then why not. Historically I never saw much stigma attached to it, for example this post from the original thread:

I need the achievements from 16m operations too, like raphael

 

Lancard, rush me S&V/TFB NiM... I will pay nice credits !!!

 

(in the end, Rommel joined NGE)

 

However that was less than a year into the introduction of achievements and the atmosphere now may be quite different. Anyone who has been around a while and has a desire to collect achievements has done most or all of the grind, and all that separates the top is operations. Competing against those who have different standards can certainly be unfair or unenjoyable.

 

It raises the question of what purpose the leaderboard serves, whether it should be strictly a list of scores or if it should foster competition between those of the same ideals. My main motivation for creating the thread was seeing the state of the previous one, which received no updates and only very occasional posts.

 

As it stands there are a significant amount of scores missing, from people who don't know, don't want, or are yet to post. A while ago I made this document to better keep track of scores. It's slightly outdated at the moment, but the point is that this thread is not doing too well in being a comprehensive record of all the scores that exist in the game.

 

So I am prepared to try what has been proposed a few times which is to indicate how many points have been bought. Objectively defining sale runs is not really feasible, so it's on more of a common sense case-by-case basis. If someone does not wish to be ranked this way they may ask to be removed from the board.

 

Implementing this will take a bit of time; I should get round to it in the next few days. I appreciate any feedback on the decision, or about the leaderboard as a whole.

Name: JohnKar

Server: Darth Malgus

Points: 73920

Screenshots: https://d.radikal.ru/d19/2012/e5/7deb42a04b41.jpg

https://d.radikal.ru/d05/2012/14/f853aa8fe10c.jpg

Given the thread directly above this one (atm) that's about "selling" Achievement runs, the number of achievements a person has only has meaning to the person that has them, and knows how they got them. 🙄

Of what use are achievements you got by being carried through something?

 

It reminds of way back when, when people would post screen shots of their high scores in arcade games - until someone discovered Photoshop. 😁

I’m one of those people that will never get 100% on both ops and PvP, not because I don’t want to but I can’t since I’m from Asia with 350ms on average. The thing is, even with that situation I would never buy runs AND post my points here, that will not be polite to those who got the cheevo the “legit” way.

 

I agree with removing people who buy runs or cheat their way to gain points. It just not right for those people that do the effort to gain the cheevo.

 

Just an opinion from a small cheevo hunter with 47k points tho.

I my guild we often offer achievement runs within the guild, sometimes even cooperating with other guilds. That guild is very small, though, like a bigger family, so everyone matters.

This way I got a few FP / OP / PvP achievements I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise.

I have a question. Who decides what is considered cheating?

Is building a group on the fleet to get the 2k pvp on czerka cheating? bc that is not the legit intended way and it´s tbh rly hard to do without it (now), but as i read that is no argument here. So what is considered cheating? Do you have to pay someone and else it is not cheating? What about favors from friends etc. ?

I’m one of those people that will never get 100% on both ops and PvP, not because I don’t want to but I can’t since I’m from Asia with 350ms on average. The thing is, even with that situation I would never buy runs AND post my points here, that will not be polite to those who got the cheevo the “legit” way.

 

I agree with removing people who buy runs or cheat their way to gain points. It just not right for those people that do the effort to gain the cheevo.

 

Just an opinion from a small cheevo hunter with 47k points tho.

 

I’m in a similar position being in Australia. Some achievements just aren’t viable for us to get with such high ping and the games built in Desync.

 

I can say I understand why someone in our position might feel their only option is to pay to get some achievements done if they are completionists or have OCD. But I also agree with you that it is cheating and shouldn’t count towards a semi competitive leaderboard.

 

I think there is room for both a competitive leaderboard and for people who’ve paid to get achievements done for personal gratification or OCD. I just don’t think they should be combined. Sadly, I don’t know how you can police and seperate the two when it works on a community honour system because Bioware don’t have an official leaderboard.

I agree with removing people who buy runs or cheat their way to gain points.

 

Keep in mind the difference between buying a run and cheating. Its hard to categorize “cheating”. It would definitely be what I said to ask customer support to grant u stuff based on a lie or hack the game (which i do not see as really possible). Then comes the question of using bugs to get an achievement, is that a “cheat”? Using third party programs, is that cheat? The definition here is quite hard and goes far beyond sales runs. I am pretty sure even the top guys used a bug or two (I know of some already).

 

I’m in a similar position being in Australia. Some achievements just aren’t viable for us to get with such high ping and the games built in Desync.

 

Trixxie do u just search the forums for Aussie posts?

 

So I am prepared to try what has been proposed a few times which is to indicate how many points have been bought. Objectively defining sale runs is not really feasible, so it's on more of a common sense case-by-case basis. If someone does not wish to be ranked this way they may ask to be removed from the board.

 

As I said, I am fine with this. I dont collect the points in order to be top, its my personal thing and I post just to show that there are people going for it, its possible etc. Its rather to motivate than to show off. I have no issues showing what i have bought (rented a group). As discussed I know I am capable of getting the kills myself, yet i do not have time to attend raids etc. So for me this is no shame and the small “raiding community” knows about this. I have been a raider in this game for over 7 years (I didnt do ops at start) so I got no issues with this.

 

I my guild we often offer achievement runs within the guild, sometimes even cooperating with other guilds. That guild is very small, though, like a bigger family, so everyone matters.

 

Yes, thank you for raising the point here. This is exactly the problem Lord and Blinks are neglecting. Mainly the world PVP achievements are almost impossible to get in areas like CZ198, Iokath etc since people do not go into the Pvp instance. Runs as you mention have all the aspects of a “sales run” yet they do not complain about them! There are quite a few of such examples like I paid a few millions to 3 guys to do the last mission of the macrobinoculars since I couldnt find a group so should Inadd that to “sales runs points” too??

 

 

I have a question. Who decides what is considered cheating?

 

Well you have to ask Lord and Blinks cause they are the ones who came with this in the first place. Before that it was fine. But I guess they only reffer to sales in case of operation achievements. The OP of the thread made himself clear, eventhough he didnt consider any of this before he can do it from now on.

Edited January 3, 2021 by merovejec

Name: Merovejec

Server: Darth Malgus

Points: 75705

Screenshots

 

Updated my points, since they will not be changing for a long time now by much.

Edited January 6, 2021 by merovejec

Name: Aayla Secura

Server: Tulak Hord

Points: 74320

Screenshots

It's not about who has more points, my friend, it's about what's right. It's not just me, but plenty of people, including yourself who have earned what they have. If someone had all the same clears as you but bought them yet claimed they were your equal or better, that would be very wrong. I know many people like myself who enjoy earning what they have, and to see people like this show up and claim purchasing runs is equal to earning them is very disheartening, and sets a dangerous precedent. He could have only 2k points, but if they're all bought ops ones, I would take equal issue with them.

 

People's Achievement points are for them, It's not a competition. As for them claiming they may be better then you, does it matter? People in life, and especially in games have ego's. Judge them by skill if you play with them, not achievement points.

 

I've never bought a sale run myself, and don't care to, but people can spend credits they have any way they want. It's not cheating. There is no rule in the ToS that a guild can't sell for in game currency a run of an operation or that someone can't pay a guild or group of players for a run with in game currency. The only thing that would be a violation of the rules would be if a player used credit sellers to get the credits to pay for such a run..

Originally I was gonna type a giant post explaining my thoughts regarding the situation. But I’m gonna keep it short and sweet. Regarding ops, my moral opinion remains, however, I cannot deny that the achievements exist, even if I disagree with the merits of the means by which they were obtained. Despite my clear opinions, I realize my ideas were not wholly objective, and though I stand by my objections, I cannot allow my subjective beliefs to be the sole arbiter by which the question posed is answered. The question being is this board measuring purely scores, how they’re obtained, or both? All of these are subjective answers, regardless of how thoroughly I would ideally see them being obtained. The only recourse would be some means of community consensus among achievement hunters, and if such an endeavor is ever undertaken, I am more than happy to contribute with an open mind. For now, the fairest option is the maintenance of the status quo, regardless of how dissatisfied I personally may be with it. My goal was not to witch hunt people, but rather to point out what I (and several others sharing similar views) personally deemed to be an apparent problem within the community. But that's just the thing, what I “personally deemed.” I stand by my moral objections, but I cannot in good faith attempt to leverage them all on my own without some sort of community consensus one way or the other. Until then, I will continue to update my score and focus on myself and the grind I deem to be worthy of myself. Good day to you all, may we all prosper.

Fantastic work Acronic! Maybe one day I can buy all of my achievements just like you! Seriously you bring shame upon us all. We're achievement hunters, but what is the point of doing it if people like you pay for Gods and Dxun and then try to get on a leaderboard as if you deserved to be ranked among people who actually earned it? People like you are glorified buyers and you poison the well of competition. I hope you're happy with yourself since anyone who actually works for their achievements certainly is not.

Another crybaby who cannot believe that people themselves close heavy content. If you cannot do this, it does not mean that other people are the same as you. I have a team with which I close these ops.

Another crybaby who cannot believe that people themselves close heavy content. If you cannot do this, it does not mean that other people are the same as you. I have a team with which I close these ops.

 

If you're saying I cannot clear the ops with a team, you're mistaken, my uninformed friend. Please re-read what remains of the thread.

Are people buying runs, or are they a spectator/admirer that is rewarding ops groups for completing a 7-man run?

 

For that matter, what if a player dies during the fight, but the rest of the team completes the encounter 7-man. No money involved, but did the 8th really contribute anything either? Did they "earn it."

 

Too much subjectiveness and opinion being pulled into the methods people use to acquire the achievement, when in reality, the completion itself is the only measurable value.

Edited January 7, 2021 by olagatonjedi