Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

6.1.4 Conquest Feedback

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Akomo's Avatar


Akomo
10.02.2020 , 10:41 AM | #321
From what ive read here this update will not be as bad as some think.

As a small guild i alone can generate 1 million conquest a week.

Another guildie generated 2.1 million in one week.

So yeah they can tone down the points of fluff missions.

We will monitor how it goes after the patch drops and provide feedback.
Super Muppet Extraordinaire!

DavidStaats's Avatar


DavidStaats
10.02.2020 , 11:27 AM | #322 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hi all!

As I mentioned last week, there was an additional pass on Conquests for 6.1.4 we were performing. We have this ready to go now, so I would like to take this opportunity to go over what it entails.
  • Almost every objective across the board has seen a shift up in points.
    • This will bring values for Objectives such as Defeat Enemies back up to around where they are on our Live server (more on this below), while also further increasing specific high effort and time Objectives.
  • Starfighter: Dominate the Stars is now an Infinite Repeat (change from Daily Repeat).
  • Starfighter: Bomber/Gunship/Scout/Striker Pilot are now available during all Conquests.
    • Starfighter: Bomber/Gunship/Scout/Striker Pilot Eternal will remain available only during Total Galactic War and Clash In Hyperspace.
  • Starfighter: <Ship> Pilot Eternal has been updated from requiring 5 battles to only requiring 1.
  • Missions: Story Time is now also available in the 71+ Level Bracket.
  • Missions: Heroic is now only available in the 10-49 Level Bracket (change from 10-49, 50-70, 71+) and is now an Infinite Repeat (change from Daily Repeat).
  • Many “Complete [WEEKLY] Mission” Objectives are now Daily Repeat, allowing multiple characters per Legacy to complete them.

Objective Point Increase
This point pass lifted almost all point values across the board up for all content types. Our intention here was to bring a little more parity of point values between 6.1.2 and 6.1.4, while also maintaining our desire to reward high complexity and time intensive activities.

We will again use the demonstration of running through two Daily Areas; CZ-198 and Yavin 4, and once again going off the assumption that while running this we will accomplish Defeat Enemies, Defeat Enemies 2, Mission Complete, and the Weekly Mission.

The following demonstrates values without any bonuses added to them, and are subject to change.

CZ-198 Daily Area
  • CZ-198: Defeat Enemies is now worth 1,650 points (down from 2,000)
  • CZ-198: Defeat Enemies 2 is now worth 3,350 points (up from 3,000)
  • CZ-198: Mission Complete is worth 2,000 points (no change from 6.1.2)
  • CZ-198: Weekly Mission is now worth 4,300 points (up from 4,000)

Total prior to 6.1.4: 11,000 Conquest points
Total with 6.1.4: 11,300 Conquest Points

Yavin 4 Daily Area
  • Yavin 4: Defeat Enemies is now worth 1,650 points (down from 2,000)
  • Yavin 4: Defeat Enemies 2 is now worth 3,350 points (up from 3,000)
  • Yavin 4: Mission Complete is now worth 2,000 points (no change from 6.1.2)
  • Yavin 4: Weekly Mission is now worth 10,600 points (up from 4,000)

Total prior to 6.1.4: 11,000 Conquest points
Total with 6.1.4: 17,600 Conquest points

Let’s also take a look at some of the other changes coming up for multiplayer content, and how those changes can affect your day-to-day play with them. For this example, let’s look at a day of Galactic Starfighter and assume that we will complete Conquer the Skies, Dominate the Stars, <Ship> Pilot, and Achiever.

Galactic Starfighter
  • Starfighter: Conquer the Skies is now worth 2,500 points (up from 600)
  • Starfighter: Dominate the Stars is now an Infinite Repeat (change from Daily) and worth 4,700 points (up from 3,000)
  • Starfighter: <Ship> Pilot is now worth 14,500 points (up from 5,800)
  • Starfighter: Achiever is now worth 48,450 points (up from 4,000)

The following assumes we are not in either Clash In Hyspace or Total Galactic War, and have a 60% win rate over 5 matches.

Total prior to 6.1.4: 6,000 Conquest points
Total with 6.1.4: 59,400 Conquest points

There have been some great discussions and suggestions for what you all would like to see with Conquests in the future, such as adding more planets to each Conquest and adding additional Conquest objectives and options. We will continue to consider these as we move forward, and thank you for the great thoughts.

We encourage everyone to hop onto our PTS and give any additional feedback you may have regarding our latest update, and hope you enjoy Conquest with 6.1.4!
David Staats | Systems Designer
Follow us on Twitter @SWTOR | Like us on Facebook
[Contact Us] [Rules of Conduct] [F.A.Q.]

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.02.2020 , 11:29 AM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazhez View Post
I agree with this. Not sure why story time is locked away by level. I have quite a few 75s, still in chapter one and two.

My thoughts on these changes overall, just on a very basic test and looking through objectives is, this will slow down people that do a bunch of characters, but of the characters you do get done, you will have more points. In theory guilds will still be fine, but it really depends on how conquest looks on a non event week.

Also, 999 renown rank up is still not giving points, with the points raised to that objective and the overall nerf of solo activities, it's actually pretty significant now.
You don’t need story time because it’s replaced with - Chapters: Any (complete a Kotet or kotfe chapter) = 12125 (this is infinitely repeatable)

Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
10.02.2020 , 11:29 AM | #324
@The-Kaitou-Kid
Mostly agree what you saying about GSF and WZs. Though I think having new objectives as daily repeatables(vs infinitely repeatables) would prolly be bit easier to balance out from devs' pov.


Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
during a double xp event, with a 100% Renown Boost layered on top,

It is a shame TC has the double xp event going. Would be nicer to play with numbers closer to norm. Not being in a guild does balance things out somewhat: I'm missing the 15% renown bonus plus whatever the current conquest bonus for being in a guild is. I'd say double xp brings atleast two additional renown dings there.

You gain renown about 2 x faster via planetaries than you do via GSF or pvp. No idea about Ops or Fps. Completing lots of fast missions is a great way to earn renown fast. Daily conq objectives count as missions here. Thus, those and heroics are a great combo to have with renown in mind.


Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post

For your test, I want to point out: while doing the fastest possible heroics (and basically speedrunning them, like running out of the Belsavis instance to avoid fighting the bosses so you could ding slayer on weaker enemies, in an open world with no other players around due to PTS, not looting enemies, using heroic moment liberally for more AOE, etc), the heroics you did accounted for a total of around 80k. Renown rank ups and objectives made up for around 160,000 points, during a double xp event, with a 100% Renown Boost layered on top, and a 114k objective that isn't available every week. That isn't an average look at heroics by any stretch of the imagination and I truly hope Bioware isn't looking at this type of test while balancing.
This is a test center. You supposed to test things. When big part of the patch is all about making various conquest yields more balanced, it is prolly kinda useful to find out how quickly a normal player can earn conquest.
You'd rather have some race to the bottom´here? Like..let's RP walk in big circles around Belsavis, pick up flowers and see how much conquest that earns in a day or something?

There is some value in finding out how much normal player who doesn't like or care about conquest and doesn't like farming conquest earns conquest. But MAYBE, since we talking conquest, there is also some tiny token measure of value in finding out how much normal player who does like conquest and who does go out to earn it..earns?


Nothing on that video is in any way unusual or obscure. Activity finder, heroic mission terminals and the teleporter mission items encourage and enable this approach. Conquest mission log gives you a literal road map to follow. As anyone here who actually plays madness sorc can easily point out, I'm not even familiar with this spec. In addition, I don't like doing planetary missions..so at least half of the folks reading this are more familiar with this and do similar runs quite a bit faster. Also, loading screens on TC take quite a bit longer than their live server counterparts.

Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
the heroics you did accounted for a total of around 80k
Yeah. 80k just from heroics in 30 mins. I mean, if we bypassing renown and all else. We can agree 3 x GSF matches is 30 mins. In practice, closer to 40 but let's keep it simple. Those matches bring 5.5k conquest each now. 16.5k vs 80k. Looks real sad don't it?

nyla_ryn's Avatar


nyla_ryn
10.02.2020 , 12:14 PM | #325
ello, was wondering, since the heroics are being drastically changed, will the daily requirements (under CQ) change as well?

Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
10.02.2020 , 12:22 PM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidStaats View Post
Hi all!
[*]Starfighter: Dominate the Stars is now an Infinite Repeat (change from Daily Repeat).[*]Starfighter: Bomber/Gunship/Scout/Striker Pilot are now available during all Conquests.
  • Starfighter: Bomber/Gunship/Scout/Striker Pilot Eternal will remain available only during Total Galactic War and Clash In Hyperspace.
[*]Starfighter: <Ship> Pilot Eternal has been updated from requiring 5 battles to only requiring 1.



WOOOOOOOOO0000! Now we talking!!!
o7
StarfighterPilotcheering.gif


...It is a shame TC is quite a ghost town; There is no testing these numbers. One can try to do the math..but it just isn't the same without getting hands dirty. Applies for all multiplayter stuff there.

But anyways, this looks great! Much needed and very welcome change!

The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar


The-Kaitou-Kid
10.02.2020 , 12:57 PM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by Stradlin View Post
@The-Kaitou-Kid
Mostly agree what you saying about GSF and WZs. Though I think having new objectives as daily repeatables(vs infinitely repeatables) would prolly be bit easier to balance out from devs' pov.
Completely disagree. Daily repeatables have to be balanced for the fact that they can only be obtained once per day, so getting great numbers through daily repeatables alone would likely result in many more objectives, meaning more things to balance and test numbers for. Planetaries have so many dailies because they're formulaic. Mission Completed, Enemies Defeated 1 & 2, weeklies for daily planets. That's 4 objectives, repeated for different planets. When you have to start coming up with multiple, different daily repeatable objectives, with new independent point values for different content, that doesn't easily lend itself to that kind of formulaic repetition, yes, that's going to be harder to balance than simply making more infinitely repeatables.

As a note, in that vein, the win objective for GSF is now infinitely repeatable too. So that's a potential 19k+ per match, not counting the new daily-to-infinite objectives they mentioned as well, that never runs out. You never have to switch content for that, do something else, go to a higher level planet or a longer mission. That potential 19k is always there. That's why infinitely repeatables are more valuable and easier to balance. You have a steady benchmark there to count on, that never has to change because you already dinged one of those today.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stradlin View Post
It is a shame TC has the double xp event going. Would be nicer to play with numbers closer to norm. Not being in a guild does balance things out somewhat: I'm missing the 15% renown bonus plus whatever the current conquest bonus for being in a guild is. I'd say double xp brings atleast two additional renown dings there.

You gain renown about 2 x faster via planetaries than you do via GSF or pvp. No idea about Ops or Fps. Completing lots of fast missions is a great way to earn renown fast. Daily conq objectives count as missions here. Thus, those and heroics are a great combo to have with renown in mind.
Double XP definitely should have been disabled for TC. It's incredibly misleading and makes a test that relies on 2/3 of its points coming from Renown rank ups even more misleading.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stradlin View Post
This is a test center. You supposed to test things. When big part of the patch is all about making various conquest yields more balanced, it is prolly kinda useful to find out how quickly a normal player can earn conquest.
You'd rather have some race to the bottom´here? Like..let's RP walk in big circles around Belsavis, pick up flowers and see how much conquest that earns in a day or something?

There is some value in finding out how much normal player who doesn't like or care about conquest and doesn't like farming conquest earns conquest. But MAYBE, since we talking conquest, there is also some tiny token measure of value in finding out how much normal player who does like conquest and who does go out to earn it..earns?
You know, there may just be some middle ground between walking big circles around Belsavis and what you were doing, that may have actually been my point. If your goal was to find out "how quickly a normal player can earn conquest", doing it the way you did makes your results misleading at best.


Quote: Originally Posted by Stradlin View Post
Nothing on that video is in any way unusual or obscure. Activity finder, heroic mission terminals and the teleporter mission items encourage and enable this approach. Conquest mission log gives you a literal road map to follow. As anyone here who actually plays madness sorc can easily point out, I'm not even familiar with this spec. In addition, I don't like doing planetary missions..so at least half of the folks reading this are more familiar with this and do similar runs quite a bit faster. Also, loading screens on TC take quite a bit longer than their live server counterparts.
I pointed out what I felt was unusual or obscure in my post. Your run was a far cry from an average heroic player. I can tell you for certain I don't play that way when I run heroics, nor do I know anybody that does. If that's how you play, great, but that doesn't make it how "normal" players do heroics. It looked to me like somebody trying to do them as fast as humanly possible. When you're trying to present that as "This is what a normal heroic player can earn through Conquest", yeah, that's incredibly misleading. That was not an average run.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stradlin View Post
Yeah. 80k just from heroics in 30 mins. I mean, if we bypassing renown and all else. We can agree 3 x GSF matches is 30 mins. In practice, closer to 40 but let's keep it simple. Those matches bring 5.5k conquest each now. 16.5k vs 80k. Looks real sad don't it?
I never said GSF didn't need to be buffed, or that GSF was in a good spot. I actually said the opposite, that they needed to buff GSF, so I don't know what your point is here. This observation doesn't make your test any less misleading.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
10.02.2020 , 01:06 PM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post

I pointed out what I felt was unusual or obscure in my post. Your run was a far cry from an average heroic player. I can tell you for certain I don't play that way when I run heroics, nor do I know anybody that does. If that's how you play, great, but that doesn't make it how "normal" players do heroics. .
Nothing in that video is strange or special for a normal player out to get some conquest.

It is a great and simple way to earn tons of conquest. Number of game mechanics are as if designed to support and encourage it. And(tis subjective) it is the most fun way I can think of to experience 10 year old missions. Nice to stay on the move.
And well.. " as fast as humanly possible" you speak of here is kinda like climbing 30 stairs as fast as humanly possible. Difference in seconds between world record and a fit grandmother isn't that big! I mean..add another 10 or 15 minutes to time consumed if you for some reason must - Numbers you are left with still don't change the big picture. (big picure that might turn into something spoken about in past tense at last, see the latest dev post!!!) If you like doing planetaries(and thus, know them well) and if you do this on some class you know how to play, you can easily be faster than I. So it is a far cry from some crazy speedrun. Just that "crazy speedrun" and " normal player derping through things" don't differ that much here.
Only huge difference is the veil between "somebody just playing the game and not caring or even knowing about conquest" vs. "somebody out there to earn conquest"

xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
10.02.2020 , 01:09 PM | #329
Quote:
Missions: Heroic is now only available in the 10-49 Level Bracket (change from 10-49, 50-70, 71+) and is now an Infinite Repeat (change from Daily Repeat).
Well, that's one objective I won't be doing. 46 toons on SF on my main account and only 3 aren't 75.
I have 57 slots per server, so I guess I could make a few toons, and then while they're in the 10-49 bracket, run Missions: Heroic, and then when they hit 49, torch the toon and make more. Definitely a plan, right?

And of course below are what make some people happy that their numbers are buffed, stuff that I'm simply not interested in or will do, but yay anyway, you people who wanted it. Congrats.

Quote:
Galactic Starfighter

Starfighter: Conquer the Skies is now worth 2,500 points (up from 600)
Starfighter: Dominate the Stars is now an Infinite Repeat (change from Daily) and worth 4,700 points (up from 3,000)
Starfighter: <Ship> Pilot is now worth 14,500 points (up from 5,800)
Starfighter: Achiever is now worth 48,450 points (up from 4,000)
Quote:
We encourage everyone to hop onto our PTS and give any additional feedback you may have regarding our latest update, and hope you enjoy Conquest with 6.1.4!
I did hop on after the first refresh when the massive stupid nerf was partially reversed, and I didn't worry about the test server being empty, everything I planned to do there was solo, anyway. I'll check again after this latest refresh.
Referral Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/F4XbCd
Play Electronic Arts' game Sims4 much? Need a new schmazzy fireplace retexture?
Check out my Sims4 mods on Nexus.

sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
10.02.2020 , 01:38 PM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
I pointed out what I felt was unusual or obscure in my post. Your run was a far cry from an average heroic player. I can tell you for certain I don't play that way when I run heroics, nor do I know anybody that does. If that's how you play, great, but that doesn't make it how "normal" players do heroics. It looked to me like somebody trying to do them as fast as humanly possible. When you're trying to present that as "This is what a normal heroic player can earn through Conquest", yeah, that's incredibly misleading. That was not an average run..
You're kidding, right?

The run in the video was actually slower than most of mine, and that of any player with stealth characters. I'm happy he didn't choose a stealth character, which would have skewed the results. This is far more realistic to live.

That said, I'm VERY disappointed they limited heroics to 10-50. It's like, what?!

I guess it's their way of saying, "hey, we heard you and put the points back at normal," but I think it would've been better to just nerf the points instead of limiting them this way, since they've basically now set Heroic points to 0 for most of the population.
For my friends, click my referral link for awesome free stuff.
For my enemies, click it just to spite me.

"Don't get cocky."