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6.1.4 Conquest Feedback

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DavidStaats's Avatar


DavidStaats
09.25.2020 , 09:04 AM | #191 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hi all!

I wanted to take a moment and give another update regarding 6.1.4 and Conquest.

As Chris mentioned yesterday during our Live Stream, live-service game systems changes are based on data we see regarding how everyone is interacting with the system, our own hypothesis, and a dialogue with all of you! We believe the dialogue portion is a critical part of this process, and is one of the driving reasons we took our 6.1.4 Conquest updates to PTS. We want to thank you for all of your input, and encourage you to continue having a conversation with us!

We have continued to iterate on what the 6.1.4 Conquest system looks like based on the above process, and I would like to share with you some updates we are making which you can expect to see coming in an upcoming PTS patch:
  • The planetary restrictions for <Planet> Defeat Enemy Objectives and <Planet> Heroic Missions Objectives have been removed.
    • This should once again function how it does on our live server, restricted only by Level Brackets (so for example, a Level 25 character will not have Defeat Enemies for Mek-Sha)
  • The restriction on Defeat Enemies 2 has been removed from the 50-70 and 71+ Level Brackets, and will continue to function as it does on our live server for characters of all levels restricted only by Level Brackets.
  • Defeat Enemies, Defeat Enemies 2, and Heroic Missions have had their points increased.
    • Defeat Enemies is now worth 1200 Points (up from 750)
    • Defeat Enemies 2 is now worth 2400 Points (up from 1650)
    • Missions: Heroic is now worth 1550 Points (up from 850)

This was just the first step in a larger and more robust PTS update we are currently working on which wasnít quite ready for this PTS patch. We will provide further information once itís ready to go!

We encourage you all to continue this conversation with us by heading to PTS and providing feedback! We are still interested in the following points:
  • How do the new values feel? Do you feel that larger and more complex objectives have a more accurate point representation of their time and effort, and do those new values make those objectives more appealing to attempt?
  • Are there Objectives you feel are too rewarding? Not rewarding enough?
  • As a player who wants to partake in the story, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest?
  • As a player who enjoys Operation/Warzone/Uprisings or other group play, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest and that your time investment is more accurately reflected?
  • How do you feel about the Objectives for Feast of Prosperity? Did they encourage you to partake in the event? Did you enjoy earning Conquest through Event participation?
  • Any other thoughts or feedback you may have!
David Staats | Systems Designer
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Kraysk's Avatar


Kraysk
09.25.2020 , 09:18 AM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidStaats View Post
Hi all!

I wanted to take a moment and give another update regarding 6.1.4 and Conquest.

As Chris mentioned yesterday during our Live Stream, live-service game systems changes are based on data we see regarding how everyone is interacting with the system, our own hypothesis, and a dialogue with all of you! We believe the dialogue portion is a critical part of this process, and is one of the driving reasons we took our 6.1.4 Conquest updates to PTS. We want to thank you for all of your input, and encourage you to continue having a conversation with us!

We have continued to iterate on what the 6.1.4 Conquest system looks like based on the above process, and I would like to share with you some updates we are making which you can expect to see coming in an upcoming PTS patch:
  • The planetary restrictions for <Planet> Defeat Enemy Objectives and <Planet> Heroic Missions Objectives have been removed.
    • This should once again function how it does on our live server, restricted only by Level Brackets (so for example, a Level 25 character will not have Defeat Enemies for Mek-Sha)
  • The restriction on Defeat Enemies 2 has been removed from the 50-70 and 71+ Level Brackets, and will continue to function as it does on our live server for characters of all levels restricted only by Level Brackets.
  • Defeat Enemies, Defeat Enemies 2, and Heroic Missions have had their points increased.
    • Defeat Enemies is now worth 1200 Points (up from 750)
    • Defeat Enemies 2 is now worth 2400 Points (up from 1650)
    • Missions: Heroic is now worth 1550 Points (up from 850)

This was just the first step in a larger and more robust PTS update we are currently working on which wasnít quite ready for this PTS patch. We will provide further information once itís ready to go!

We encourage you all to continue this conversation with us by heading to PTS and providing feedback! We are still interested in the following points:
  • How do the new values feel? Do you feel that larger and more complex objectives have a more accurate point representation of their time and effort, and do those new values make those objectives more appealing to attempt?
  • Are there Objectives you feel are too rewarding? Not rewarding enough?
  • As a player who wants to partake in the story, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest?
  • As a player who enjoys Operation/Warzone/Uprisings or other group play, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest and that your time investment is more accurately reflected?
  • How do you feel about the Objectives for Feast of Prosperity? Did they encourage you to partake in the event? Did you enjoy earning Conquest through Event participation?
  • Any other thoughts or feedback you may have!
Is this a mtf joke?
You are buffing braindead solo activities YET AGAIN
How about bringing something to multiplayer people? Like, the ones who actually pay for your game?
There are alot of suggestions in this thread alone.
If you'd care you'd read it.
But aye. Feeding a companion is niw worth 2 GSF matches or 3 heroic missions.
Guys, you are INSANE.
Musta Aurinko / Musta Leski / Verivalta / Helvetissa / Rauhassa / Ikiyossa

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
09.25.2020 , 09:31 AM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidStaats View Post

The planetary restrictions for <Planet> Defeat Enemy Objectives and <Planet> Heroic Missions Objectives have been removed.
  • This should once again function how it does on our live server, restricted only by Level Brackets (so for example, a Level 25 character will not have Defeat Enemies for Mek-Sha)
[*]The restriction on Defeat Enemies 2 has been removed from the 50-70 and 71+ Level Brackets, and will continue to function as it does on our live server for characters of all levels restricted only by Level Brackets.[*]Defeat Enemies, Defeat Enemies 2, and Heroic Missions have had their points increased.
  • Defeat Enemies is now worth 1200 Points (up from 750)
  • Defeat Enemies 2 is now worth 2400 Points (up from 1650)
  • Missions: Heroic is now worth 1550 Points (up from 850)

As a braindead mostly solo / small group player who also pays (a lot) for the game...

Thank You! I recognize it is still a nerf but this a step in the right direction by allowing us to continue visiting a variety of planets, which I enjoy.

Dasty

P.S. There have been some good suggestions in this thread about GSF / medals, FPs etc.. I hope you are still looking at those activities too.

Balameb's Avatar


Balameb
09.25.2020 , 09:36 AM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by Kraysk View Post
Is this a mtf joke?
You are buffing braindead solo activities YET AGAIN
They are increasing points from the points in PTS that are lower than live. Even with this increase, those values are lower current ones, so is still a nerf, not a buff.

Quote: Originally Posted by DavidStaats View Post

We encourage you all to continue this conversation with us by heading to PTS and providing feedback! We are still interested in the following points:
  • How do the new values feel? Do you feel that larger and more complex objectives have a more accurate point representation of their time and effort, and do those new values make those objectives more appealing to attempt?
  • Are there Objectives you feel are too rewarding? Not rewarding enough?
  • As a player who wants to partake in the story, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest?
  • As a player who enjoys Operation/Warzone/Uprisings or other group play, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest and that your time investment is more accurately reflected?
  • How do you feel about the Objectives for Feast of Prosperity? Did they encourage you to partake in the event? Did you enjoy earning Conquest through Event participation?
  • Any other thoughts or feedback you may have!
From values i saw, i still think there are a couple of group activities that even with the increase they provide little points. For example Vet FP i think is one that needs a little more.
Also, a one time daily objective for each one (lower than MM one, but bigger than the rng GF) would be nice.
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Kraysk's Avatar


Kraysk
09.25.2020 , 09:43 AM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by Balameb View Post
They are increasing points from the points in PTS that are lower than live. Even with this increase, those values are lower current ones, so is still a nerf, not a buff.


From values i saw, i still think there are a couple of group activities that even with the increase they provide little points. For example Vet FP i think is one that needs a little more.
Also, a one time daily objective for each one (lower than MM one, but bigger than the rng GF) would be nice.
Aye, Vet FPs need some love.
And Unranked PvP too.
Musta Aurinko / Musta Leski / Verivalta / Helvetissa / Rauhassa / Ikiyossa

DuchessKristania's Avatar


DuchessKristania
09.25.2020 , 09:56 AM | #196
I actually enjoy heroic missions, not every single one, but I have favorites and areas I go to regularly or cycle through. They aren't being buffed again, they're still lower than what they currently are on the regular servers. They're changing the planned nerf to be less than what they initially purposed.

To the devs, if you're going to nerf the heroic mission objective than please don't make it one per day per legacy. Since I enjoy heroics I'd love it to be infinitely repeatable, but I get that seems to be something you really don't like doing with objectives. With that lowered point value it needs to be once per day, per character. I still think the point value is too low.

With the way conquest is on the live servers it works so well for tiny alt-filled guilds. We can achieve our conquest goal and still have time for players to engage in play that isn't conquest focused if they choose to. Please consider that the reasons for doing conquest for a small guild are different than those of a large guild. A tiny guild is not aiming to win control over a planet. The mega guilds make that pretty much impossible. I'd bet that most small guilds, like the ones I'm in, are really just trying to open their flagships. Counting myself, there are three active players in my guilds. We run multiple alts through conquest and then collect as many encryptions as we can. Our guild doesn't work less than a larger guild to hit those goals. When you consider it's three people hitting personal conquest multiple times those three people are actually putting forth a lot of time and effort to make it happen.

If you're going to nerf the easy, soloable, or small group content then please consider reducing the personal conquest goal if a guild is invading the small yield planets. This would allow the small guilds to continue to work toward opening their ships at a reasonable rate.
#SaveSWTOR

♥Death Should Never Silence Love♥

DuchessKristania's Avatar


DuchessKristania
09.25.2020 , 10:08 AM | #197
Quote: Originally Posted by Balameb View Post
For example Vet FP i think is one that needs a little more.
Also, a one time daily objective for each one (lower than MM one, but bigger than the rng GF) would be nice.
^^^ So much this! My guildies and I love running vet fps together. We've been trying to do some MM as well but with only three of us that gets a little more complicated. Vet fps let us up the difficulty a bit.
#SaveSWTOR

♥Death Should Never Silence Love♥

OOOYYY's Avatar


OOOYYY
09.25.2020 , 10:14 AM | #198
Thank you for listening to feedback! These changes are a step in the right direction, but they still nerf shorter activities, making conquest longer and less engaging for most players. Outside of a few vocal folks in these forums, you probably won't find many players who will like the nerfs.

You asked an interesting question -- will these changes still let you play story, etc? I think the main deterrent to playing story -- or any activity that players like -- are the daily restrictions on earning points. If I want to run through the whole story on a planet, I very quickly stop earning conquest points. So the incentive is to quit playing until the next day. This reduces engagement and immersion in the story. If I want to pvp, I quickly lose the big benefits, so I quit and wait for the refresh the next day. And I can't simply move to another alt because conquest is legacy-bound. I think the solution to incentivize more engagement is to allow more activities to be repeated, maybe not infinitely, but a few times a day.

Sarfux and Darkbloom have offered some really good and novel ideas above. I would support looking into them.

casirabit's Avatar


casirabit
09.25.2020 , 10:48 AM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidStaats View Post
Hi all!

I wanted to take a moment and give another update regarding 6.1.4 and Conquest.

As Chris mentioned yesterday during our Live Stream, live-service game systems changes are based on data we see regarding how everyone is interacting with the system, our own hypothesis, and a dialogue with all of you! We believe the dialogue portion is a critical part of this process, and is one of the driving reasons we took our 6.1.4 Conquest updates to PTS. We want to thank you for all of your input, and encourage you to continue having a conversation with us!

We have continued to iterate on what the 6.1.4 Conquest system looks like based on the above process, and I would like to share with you some updates we are making which you can expect to see coming in an upcoming PTS patch:
  • The planetary restrictions for <Planet> Defeat Enemy Objectives and <Planet> Heroic Missions Objectives have been removed.
    • This should once again function how it does on our live server, restricted only by Level Brackets (so for example, a Level 25 character will not have Defeat Enemies for Mek-Sha)
  • The restriction on Defeat Enemies 2 has been removed from the 50-70 and 71+ Level Brackets, and will continue to function as it does on our live server for characters of all levels restricted only by Level Brackets.
  • Defeat Enemies, Defeat Enemies 2, and Heroic Missions have had their points increased.
    • Defeat Enemies is now worth 1200 Points (up from 750)
    • Defeat Enemies 2 is now worth 2400 Points (up from 1650)
    • Missions: Heroic is now worth 1550 Points (up from 850)

This was just the first step in a larger and more robust PTS update we are currently working on which wasnít quite ready for this PTS patch. We will provide further information once itís ready to go!

We encourage you all to continue this conversation with us by heading to PTS and providing feedback! We are still interested in the following points:
  • How do the new values feel? Do you feel that larger and more complex objectives have a more accurate point representation of their time and effort, and do those new values make those objectives more appealing to attempt?
  • Are there Objectives you feel are too rewarding? Not rewarding enough?
  • As a player who wants to partake in the story, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest?
  • As a player who enjoys Operation/Warzone/Uprisings or other group play, do you feel like you are able to more actively participate in Conquest and that your time investment is more accurately reflected?
  • How do you feel about the Objectives for Feast of Prosperity? Did they encourage you to partake in the event? Did you enjoy earning Conquest through Event participation?
  • Any other thoughts or feedback you may have!
Thank you. It is appreciated, even though there is at least one person who thinks it is okay to name call but typical.

There are some changes that some group activities could use and there been a few individuals that have stated what could be done (minus the person who thinks name calling is smart) and I would talk to those individuals such as: Darkbloom and Sarfux.
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Stradlin's Avatar


Stradlin
09.25.2020 , 10:48 AM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidStaats View Post
Hi all!

I wanted to take a moment and give another update regarding 6.1.4 and Conquest.

[list]
[*]The planetary restrictions for <Planet> Defeat Enemy Objectives and <Planet> Heroic Missions Objectives have been removed.
  • How do the new values feel? Do you feel that larger and more complex objectives have a more accurate point representation of their time and effort, and do those new values make those objectives more appealing to attempt?
  • Are there Objectives you feel are too rewarding? Not rewarding enough?

  • Any other thoughts or feedback you may have!


You keep talking about balancing objectives in a situation where daily repeatable Planetary Missions and Rampages orbiting them amount to almost 100 daily conq objectives to ding. Ones that are available every single day and every single week.

No Multiplayer activity has even 10% of that consistently available!!

Can you please give ALL multiplayer exclusive content more daily repeatable missions? Why is this not a thing? < - I'd really like to hear this discussed. Why is a huge amount of daily objectives such an exclusive domain of a playstyle that needs no other people to happen?

How do you plan on fixing the current situation if one activity has 100 missions every day of every week and all other activities don't have even 10% of that?

You can tweak two(!!!) daly repeatables GSF has all day long. it is still TWO MISSIONS. 2. vs almost 100 missions.


There has been lots of constructive discussion about potential new GSF daily repeatables in this very thread. By lots of different people. It'd be nice if you could even comment on this.

Clash In Hyperspace conquest event is next to extinct - it happens few times a year. Could you not lift objectives from Clash In Hyperspace, tweak them a bit and make them available on weekly basis? Ground pvp could get the same treatment with its respective conq week.

Perfectly ordinary players can bring 30-40 characters to conq target every single week. This is possible thanks to those 100 planetaries and their attached rampages. It is very simple and efficient to distribute completion of dozens and dozens of different compact sized planetary mission/rampage objectives evenly across 4, 6 even 8 different chars each day.

Those new, huge PvP weekly, GSF weekly, Operations weekly etc mission dings bring a nice haul of conq for the guild. Character/player personally doesn't benefit from it as much. If character has 35k conquest and completes weekly giving 200k, said character gets no meaningful personal benefit from anything that goes past the 50k.He has 235k conquest and gets the same rewards he'd get at 50k.

- - -

As it stands, planetary missions are vastly superior conquest in two ways:
A) You get Conquest faster and there is (prolly) much more of it to be had. Pretty simple really.
B) Huge weekly mission dings bring raw numbers closer. However, huge weekly dings are always "dumb conquest" - Player can't distribute it evenly across his legacy. Those 100 Planetary missions/Rampages give " smart conquest" that you can split evenly with very high accuracy. It makes 200k via 30 planetary objective completions much more useful and valuable than 200k via single big weekly objective completion. Via planetaries, a player can reach conquest target on 3-4 different characters with that 200k. He gets 3-4 times the mission rewards. Meanwhile, a singular big meaty new weekly ding brings one character to 200k+ conquest. For 1 x the mission rewards. See the issue?

How can you balance stuff if you introduce no new objectives to multiplayer content? Something like 20 constantly available daily repeatable missions for each playstyle that needs other people to even happen would surely be so much easier to balance than current situation is.

If the underlying situation in need of fixing is something as hopeless as "Hm, ok let's make playstyle with 100 daily repeatables and playstyle with 2 daily repeatables bit more balanced" then ofc you are inevitably stuck with solution like " ok, lets make it so another of those two dailies gives 200k conq now!" Which, ofc is so much better than depressing garbage on live server atm..but..why not just give all playstyles more daily repeatables?

Ability to get 200k conq in 90 mins by doing 30 daily repeatables is always much more valuable than getting 200k conq in 90 mins by one single mission.

So yeah, TLDR More daily repeatables for multiplayer content please.Why is this not a thing? It seems like such an obvious solution. Daily repeatables are very accurate science and easy to control from devs pov. Its fun to chase them from players' pov. Giving 100 of those to soloable content was clearly not an issue so why did you stop there?

P.S It seems to me there are very few people on test center. If you don't incentivize it, you won't get any multiuplayer stuff tested at all; that content doesn't happen.