Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Battling Toxicity Feedback

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
09.22.2020 , 12:47 PM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey all,

Coming in 6.1.4 are a number of anti-toxicity measures that Chris outlined in his post here. Please use this thread to share your feedback on them, especially if you try any of them on PTS!
  • What is your feedback on backfilling in Solo Ranked now prioritizing the same role as the one that left along with increasing the penalties for leaving?
  • What is your feedback on the removal of vote kick from Ranked PvP?
  • What is your feedback on Ranked PvP now requiring iLvl 306 in order to queue?
  • What is your feedback on the addition of Legacy ignore?
Hop on the PTS and share your thoughts with us!

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
Follow us on Twitter @SWTOR | Like us on Facebook
[Contact Us] [Rules of Conduct] [F.A.Q.]

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
09.22.2020 , 02:11 PM | #2
removing votekick is understandable but it requires both you as developers and the customer service teams to be a lot quicker to deal with throwers and ruiners in ranked pvp, a not unlikely scenario is that without votekick you are unable to remove a player who removes all his gear or just afks in a corner which will promote frustration of the players stuck in such a situation

if you continue to take several weeks to "investigate" such categories of players before their ability to queue for ranked (and potentiallyl unranked if they do the same there) is removed that frustration might very well turn into similar toxicity as you wanted to reduce

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Saga - FriendlyFire - Mango

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
09.22.2020 , 02:19 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
removing votekick is understandable but it requires both you as developers and the customer service teams to be a lot quicker to deal with throwers and ruiners in ranked pvp, a not unlikely scenario is that without votekick you are unable to remove a player who removes all his gear or just afks in a corner which will promote frustration of the players stuck in such a situation

if you continue to take several weeks to "investigate" such categories of players before their ability to queue for ranked (and potentiallyl unranked if they do the same there) is removed that frustration might very well turn into similar toxicity as you wanted to reduce
Vote kick was never a solution to throwers or afkers in ranked (if someone afks in the map, they can simply be found and killed). There are no backfills for kicked players in ranked. Removing people with vote kick merely gave them a 5 minute cooldown and left your team a man down. Vote kick literally did absolutely nothing to combat throwers that were determined to throw. They simply waited 5 minutes and queued again.

The only potential for griefing now is stealthers that sit in stealth until acid, wasting up to 5 minutes per round. I have no doubt that will happen on occasion. But, that should be very easy to report, and very easy for Bioware to confirm by looking at logs.

The other consequence will be an increase in verbal toxicity towards players perceived as bad. When the crybabies can't vote kick, they'll simply berate their target with increased fervor. But as I've said elsewhere, that's still 1000x better than being vote kicked. It's not even in the same stratosphere in terms of "toxicity."

DrakeDelver's Avatar


DrakeDelver
09.22.2020 , 02:43 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Vote kick was never a solution to throwers or afkers in ranked (if someone afks in the map, they can simply be found and killed). There are no backfills for kicked players in ranked. Removing people with vote kick merely gave them a 5 minute cooldown and left your team a man down. Vote kick literally did absolutely nothing to combat throwers that were determined to throw. They simply waited 5 minutes and queued again.

The only potential for griefing now is stealthers that sit in stealth until acid, wasting up to 5 minutes per round. I have no doubt that will happen on occasion. But, that should be very easy to report, and very easy for Bioware to confirm by looking at logs.

The other consequence will be an increase in verbal toxicity towards players perceived as bad. When the crybabies can't vote kick, they'll simply berate their target with increased fervor. But as I've said elsewhere, that's still 1000x better than being vote kicked. It's not even in the same stratosphere in terms of "toxicity."
Don't forget that with how hard they are pushing Ranked PVP right now there will be more new/new to ranked players trying the mode after all there is no practice for ranked pvp with how rare arena is in unranked. More toxicity will be there as they further ruin the desire to play the game in general.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
09.22.2020 , 02:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DrakeDelver View Post
Don't forget that with how hard they are pushing Ranked PVP right now there will be more new/new to ranked players trying the mode after all there is no practice for ranked pvp with how rare arena is in unranked. More toxicity will be there as they further ruin the desire to play the game in general.
Possibly. But they're also adding a 306 gear requirement, so that should help. People at least need to play enough to get that, and in the process, hopefully they learn something about how to play their class, or better yet, they realize they also need a set bonus, tactical, and practice in regs.

Also, you don't even get many of the new mats from solo ranked, so I'm not sure it will really attract all that many more people. The removal of vote kick should hopefully encourage more people to queue though. And in the long run that will be a very good thing, even if it's a bit of a pain for us veterans at the start.

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
09.22.2020 , 03:20 PM | #6
Quote:

  • What is your feedback on backfilling in Solo Ranked now prioritizing the same role as the one that left along with increasing the penalties for leaving?
  • What is your feedback on the removal of vote kick from Ranked PvP?
  • What is your feedback on Ranked PvP now requiring iLvl 306 in order to queue?
  • What is your feedback on the addition of Legacy ignore?
  • Could we just make it impossible to leave outside of closing the game? Including removing the potential to decline a pop? It's rather abused especially as support roles to get a backfill. Then have something to monitor when someone closes the game to avoid a match? I do think it finally prioritizing the right role is great, however, there should be more to it.


  • Vote kick has definitely been abused more in the recent expansion but I have seen it be abused in the past. With the removal of vote kick, I do hope ranked is more monitored for poor behavior. I also don't mean just one side of it either, oftentimes it's both sides harassing each other usually one more than the other.


  • 306 Item level is great, but bolster was already a thing. While it didn't do a perfect job it still made reason to get max gear. Set bonuses are more powerful than they have ever been. There's a new item called tactical too, these things completely alter the way the classes play. Neither of these things can be bolstered and they take much longer to obtain than 306 item levels. This should have been the requirement, 306 is more than achieved multiple times over obtaining set bonus and tactical. If they somehow achieved set bonus and tactical without 306 gear bolster could make up for the difference. I'd rather have a 268 item level player with a set bonus + tactical than a 306 no set bonus or relevant tactical player.


  • I think legacy ignore is a cool feature, probably legacy friends soon? I assume it adds every players name so technically you can just spy on their whole legacy and add them? Not sure how I feel about that one, to be honest, however, I do worry for ranked. When it comes to ranked you have to make plans and work together, if players are ignored or unintentionally ignored because they were an *** on an alt it really causes problems. For example, that player wouldn't even know this person is part of said legacy and just think he's not talking. This is something I hope you guys can potentially make a new chat for solo ranked that's maybe more monitored for reports? Allow it to bypass the normal ignore function to avoid this sort of problem?

I'd love to see more stuff!

Carba's Avatar


Carba
09.23.2020 , 04:49 AM | #7
The toxicity arises because of the game design, which places a high premium on coordinated teamwork. Its a bit na´ve to create these incentives and then complain that people want to create the best teams, which necessarily means excluding non-performers. Its irrelevant whether the non-performance is gear, talent, experience, or willful. The cost to a team of a non-performing player is very high in both PvE and PvP. A well matched team can farms mats at 10x the rate of a poor performing team. Those teams will find ways to exclude non-performers because the cost of failure is so high.

bredforslaughter's Avatar


bredforslaughter
09.23.2020 , 11:02 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
The only potential for griefing now is stealthers that sit in stealth until acid, wasting up to 5 minutes per round. I have no doubt that will happen on occasion. But, that should be very easy to report, and very easy for Bioware to confirm by looking at logs."
Personally, I think stealth should be changed to last a maximum of 30s in any given situation. Stealth is too overpowered and allows people to cheat through group content; "farm" certain flashpoints they shouldn't be able to get through so easily, and skip entire swaths of some maps. In PvP the ability for someone to just sit in stealth is rediculous, and having a time limit for it to wear off (i.e.: the buff only lasts 30 seconds) certainly seems more balanced in regards to it being used as more of a defensive cool-down and way to reposition.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
09.23.2020 , 11:33 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by bredforslaughter View Post
Personally, I think stealth should be changed to last a maximum of 30s in any given situation. Stealth is too overpowered and allows people to cheat through group content; "farm" certain flashpoints they shouldn't be able to get through so easily, and skip entire swaths of some maps. In PvP the ability for someone to just sit in stealth is rediculous, and having a time limit for it to wear off (i.e.: the buff only lasts 30 seconds) certainly seems more balanced in regards to it being used as more of a defensive cool-down and way to reposition.
I wouldn't be opposed to that. But then again, I don't play any stealth classes lol.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
09.23.2020 , 01:59 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Possibly. But they're also adding a 306 gear requirement, so that should help. People at least need to play enough to get that, and in the process, hopefully they learn something about how to play their class, or better yet, they realize they also need a set bonus, tactical, and practice in regs.

Also, you don't even get many of the new mats from solo ranked, so I'm not sure it will really attract all that many more people. The removal of vote kick should hopefully encourage more people to queue though. And in the long run that will be a very good thing, even if it's a bit of a pain for us veterans at the start.
One of the best solutions for stopping toxicity with minimal changes to the system would be the removal of chat from solo ranked... There wouldn't be any way to *** talk each other and it's solo que anyway. You would be on your own and play by using your own judgement.


If you'd turn off chat before queing, you'd be totally immune to toxicity because there is no chat during the match, and you wouldn't see any whisper after the game either.

I know it sounds stupid.. but I can't think of a simpler solution.
Darth Malgus Server
Delusional Marauder Main