Why haven't random and group 2v2 queues been implemented? It seems like such an obvious solution to a lot of the problems with ranked. It would reduce the "teammate lottery" effect and be more skill based. Matches would generally be shorter and with less people needed there'd be more queue pops. Win trading would likely be harder. In fact I think 2v2 should replace 4v4's, to avoid splitting the queue in two. 4v4 can remain for premades.

I would also love to see a 1v1 queue. Dueling in SWTOR is some of the most fun I've had in this game. Sure, it would make class imbalance more apparent, but the leader boards are organized by class anyway and most people in this game run many alts. The only issue with this I see is two stealth facing off. A simple fix would be to limit time in stealth to 30 seconds, and after that force them out of stealth and in combat.

I didn't want to make this yet another complain-y thread so I'll just say this. With OWPVP long dead, ranked PVP broken, and the new wz lockout. This is probably the lowest point in the games history for PvPers. This is something that should be trivial to implement and would give some veterans a reason to stick around. Maybe some of the current regulars in ranked wouldn't like it, but if what they liked was popular there would be more than 10 of them.

Continually shrinking the team size doesn't actually make pvp better, it just provides pops as a game mode proves unengaging enough to slowly lose its entire population.

sucks for pvp, but the minute they set up a game with no X server for pvp, refused to merge to maintain a high server population and chose to implement smaller team sizes instead the writing was on the wall.

So another game mode where operatives just dominate. No thanks

You’d need new rules/mechanics to make that work. Ie, a timer on how long stealth classes can stay in cover. How many times they can stealth out to heal. Dps only or do you have healer + tank matches?

It’s not impossible, it just requires different rules and mechanics set up by Bioware.

Continually shrinking the team size doesn't actually make pvp better, it just provides pops as a game mode proves unengaging enough to slowly lose its entire population.

 

sucks for pvp, but the minute they set up a game with no X server for pvp, refused to merge to maintain a high server population and chose to implement smaller team sizes instead the writing was on the wall.

Depends on the game mode. For regs, I would agree with you. Arenas benefit from a small team size. Unlike regs where there's objectives, arenas are purely skill based and the more teammates you have, the less skill is a factor.

4v4 was a bad choice from the beginning. Just look at other MMOs with arenas, 2v2 is generally the most popular. WoW got rid of their 5v5 arena bracket for a reason.

Depends on the game mode. For regs, I would agree with you. Arenas benefit from a small team size. Unlike regs where there's objectives, arenas are purely skill based and the more teammates you have, the less skill is a factor.

 

4v4 was a bad choice from the beginning. Just look at other MMOs with arenas, 2v2 is generally the most popular. WoW got rid of their 5v5 arena bracket for a reason.

I once had a civil war match that was 1v1. It was very funny as we rotated to capture the nodes. I don’t think we saw each other once

I once had a civil war match that was 1v1. It was very funny as we rotated to capture the nodes. I don’t think we saw each other once

That story would be very entertaining to read. How as that managed and how long did it last before the game was cancelled? How long ago was this?

That story would be very entertaining to read. How as that managed and how long did it last before the game was cancelled? How long ago was this?

Few years ago now. Before the queue reverted to arena during low pops. The match didn’t cancel either, it ran the full length. I ended up losing cause the other person was a sin and I was a Jugg and they had speed run to get to the nodes faster, but it was close.

Few years ago now. Before the queue reverted to arena during low pops. The match didn’t cancel either, it ran the full length. I ended up losing cause the other person was a sin and I was a Jugg and they had speed run to get to the nodes faster, but it was close.

That is nuts! Wish I could have been on that map, or had a story like that...and you NEVER ran into the assassin.

Shame you lost. Even with a loss, that would have been a great memory for me!

That is nuts! Wish I could have been on that map, or had a story like that...and you NEVER ran into the assassin.

 

Shame you lost. Even with a loss, that would have been a great memory for me!

We saw each other but we were going in opposite directions to get a node. The closest we got was mid when they stealthed out and ran to one of the side nodes before I could stop them.

Depends on the game mode. For regs, I would agree with you. Arenas benefit from a small team size. Unlike regs where there's objectives, arenas are purely skill based and the more teammates you have, the less skill is a factor.

 

4v4 was a bad choice from the beginning. Just look at other MMOs with arenas, 2v2 is generally the most popular. WoW got rid of their 5v5 arena bracket for a reason.

I've never understood why people view the game mode that requires LESS awareness to be the most skill based.

You’d need new rules/mechanics to make that work. Ie, a timer on how long stealth classes can stay in cover. How many times they can stealth out to heal. Dps only or do you have healer + tank matches?

 

It’s not impossible, it just requires different rules and mechanics set up by Bioware.

Or just delete concealment operatives from the game entirely.

Or just delete concealment operatives from the game entirely.

Not exactly a fair compromise is it if your fav class is operative

I've never understood why people view the game mode that requires LESS awareness to be the most skill based.

I was referring more to skill with your class. I didn't mean to disparage objective based PvP which does take more tactical awareness.

Not exactly a fair compromise is it if your fav class is operative

Learn lethality, which isnt just a no brain spec

Learn lethality, which isnt just a no brain spec

Not sure what your response is supposed to mean

Not sure what your response is supposed to mean

He's saying that Concealment isn't the only dps spec operative has to offer and lethality actually takes some practice to develop some skill and get good. At least thats what i understood from the conversation.

Depends on the game mode. For regs, I would agree with you. Arenas benefit from a small team size. Unlike regs where there's objectives, arenas are purely skill based and the more teammates you have, the less skill is a factor.

 

4v4 was a bad choice from the beginning. Just look at other MMOs with arenas, 2v2 is generally the most popular. WoW got rid of their 5v5 arena bracket for a reason.

I have to disagree with your assertion that the skill requirement lowers the more teammates you have. I'd argue the opposite is true.

The smaller the team, the more outcomes are determined not by gameplay but by spec distribution. Many arena matches are determined before they start based on how matchmaking sorted the teams (ex. giving one team 3 specs than can guard and the other zero). While spec distribution remains a large factor in 8 v 8, the bigger team sizes and larger maps with respawns and objectives beyond PKing provide greater opportunities for teams that weren't blessed by the matchmaking god to pull off an upset by focusing their efforts away from the spec mismatch. The 8 v 8 format also allows for a greater number of specs to be viable.

Objective play, just like killing other players in arenas, requires coordination with teammates and strategy. It's no less skill based. It arguably even adds another layer of complexity in terms of strategies than arena matches.

It is true that the skill requirement for Ranked is much steeper than that for Regs, but that is because it is Ranked...not because the maps are 4 v 4 arenas. That is the players and not the format. If 8 v 8 Ranked was a thing and the only game in town you would see 8 v 8 played at the same high level of 4 v 4 Ranked.

I have to disagree with your assertion that the skill requirement lowers the more teammates you have. I'd argue the opposite is true.

 

The smaller the team, the more outcomes are determined not by gameplay but by spec distribution. Many arena matches are determined before they start based on how matchmaking sorted the teams (ex. giving one team 3 specs than can guard and the other zero). While spec distribution remains a large factor in 8 v 8, the bigger team sizes and larger maps with respawns and objectives beyond PKing provide greater opportunities for teams that weren't blessed by the matchmaking god to pull off an upset by focusing their efforts away from the spec mismatch. The 8 v 8 format also allows for a greater number of specs to be viable.

 

Objective play, just like killing other players in arenas, requires coordination with teammates and strategy. It's no less skill based. It arguably even adds another layer of complexity in terms of strategies than arena matches.

 

It is true that the skill requirement for Ranked is much steeper than that for Regs, but that is because it is Ranked...not because the maps are 4 v 4 arenas. That is the players and not the format. If 8 v 8 Ranked was a thing and the only game in town you would see 8 v 8 played at the same high level of 4 v 4 Ranked.

Both sides can be argued. The more players involved, the more complicated and thus skilled a player must be to overcome...but fewer players means the tactics do not need to be as involved. Conversely, more players plug gaps in a skill set that playing with fewer players would expose.

Both sides can be argued. The more players involved, the more complicated and thus skilled a player must be to overcome...but fewer players means the tactics do not need to be as involved. Conversely, more players plug gaps in a skill set that playing with fewer players would expose.

And in a game with well balanced specs thats fine but it has the practical effect of taking classes and specs from "not optimal but playable" to "never take, insta loss"