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Covid 19


KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
05.16.2020 , 06:30 PM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
You can compare it with the vaccine against flu. Many people take it, many pay for it as its not a mandatory vaccine so not paid by health insurance. Yet they still get flu and in some cases it hits them harder than normally.

The virus also mutates so a vaccine might not be effective and u still get the virus regadless of havin exposed your body to a vaccine.
I get a flu vaccine every year, paid for by... let's say employer.

As to why people still get the flu, it's because there are different viruses that cause the flu. Some years they do a good job anticipating which strains to put in the shot, others they don't and we say its a "bad flu season"

I'm no expert, so I'm just going to leave the rest at, to my understanding we are trying to develop a vaccine for this specific strain of coronavirus, ergo it should be effective against what we call coronavirus, once it is tested/approved.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
05.16.2020 , 11:02 PM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I get a flu vaccine every year, paid for by... let's say employer.

As to why people still get the flu, it's because there are different viruses that cause the flu. Some years they do a good job anticipating which strains to put in the shot, others they don't and we say its a "bad flu season"

I'm no expert, so I'm just going to leave the rest at, to my understanding we are trying to develop a vaccine for this specific strain of coronavirus, ergo it should be effective against what we call coronavirus, once it is tested/approved.
Warning, another one of my dissertations incoming. I've wrapped this one in spoiler tags so it takes up less space.

Spoiler
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Click the link. You know you wanna. You'll get free stuff. - http://www.swtor.com/r/W9ZqZj

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
05.17.2020 , 01:36 AM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
He alone on Planet Earth knows enough about any as of yet non-existent potential Covid-19 vaccine to compare it to the flu vaccine, despite all the evidence suggesting the two are non-comparable.
You are the vlear example of what the world has become. People that do not allow any other opinion than the opinion of the masses. An opinion that is easily manipulated by the powerful. Its the same as burning “witches” in the past.
Merovejec
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merovejec
05.17.2020 , 01:43 AM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I get a flu vaccine every year, paid for by... let's say employer.
The only thing i can offer is my experience. I do not thousands of people, but those few hundreds I know do not get the flu vaccine cause they think its nonsence. Noone i know had flu in the recent years (at least they didnt mention it), only my wifes mother and she got flu few months after getting vaccine against flu!

I myself never got flu, technicaly i got it but i just feel there is something in my body its maybe 2-3 days i cought in the morning and evening and then its over. If you live in an healthy environment, eat bio stuff, drink hood water virus have little chances. You get them of course but your immunity system can easily defeat them, no need for extra vacinne protection.
Merovejec
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
05.17.2020 , 02:24 AM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
The only thing i can offer is my experience. I do not thousands of people, but those few hundreds I know do not get the flu vaccine cause they think its nonsence. Noone i know had flu in the recent years (at least they didnt mention it), only my wifes mother and she got flu few months after getting vaccine against flu!

I myself never got flu, technicaly i got it but i just feel there is something in my body its maybe 2-3 days i cought in the morning and evening and then its over. If you live in an healthy environment, eat bio stuff, drink hood water virus have little chances. You get them of course but your immunity system can easily defeat them, no need for extra vacinne protection.
Look at the response ceryxp gave me. It is obvious he knows what he's talking about, and he lays it out in incredible detail. Its really rather informative, and unlike whatever gibberish you're spewing, seems factual and not circumstantial.

My, again let's call them employer, requires and provides flu shots every year. As ceryxp lays out there are reasons some flu seasons are worse than others, and why you can get the flu despite the shot, and he goes on to explain why your argument comparing the 2 types of viruses is largely irrelevant.

Chickenpox is a virus, do you get the chickenpox after having a shot? (I was unfortunate enough to be born before the shot was widespread and so had the chickenpox, id much rather have gotten a shot in retrospect).
Smallpox was a virus, eradicated by widespread vaccination.
Polio/measles/etc have all been lessened by vaccines.

The point is, overall I'm not going to knock one of the greatest medical advancements of all time.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
05.17.2020 , 05:36 AM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Look at the response ceryxp gave me. It is obvious he knows what he's talking about, and he lays it out in incredible detail. Its really rather informative, and unlike whatever gibberish you're spewing, seems factual and not circumstantial.
I do not get you people. On one side you say you want to provide sources on the other side, you believe a text, just cause it looks like its with incredible detail. Ceryxp also didnt provide a source, but just made scientifically sounding text, thats all. He said partially what I wrote you but just gave you nice wrapping to it.

Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
My, again let's call them employer, requires and provides flu shots every year.
Yes cause he blindly believes it will cause the employees to be less sick and work more for him, with which he makes more money. I hear this in commercials on the radio sometimes and it makes me puke when i hear "get flu vaccine, you will have less sick days and therefore make more money". Just for your info, if you are sick in my country you get 55% salary the first week and then just 25% salary, so its not good to be home sick for a long time, since you get very little money.

Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Chickenpox is a virus, do you get the chickenpox after having a shot? (I was unfortunate enough to be born before the shot was widespread and so had the chickenpox, id much rather have gotten a shot in retrospect).
If you would honestly get the vaccine against chickenpox then I feel sorry for you. In my country there is no vaccine for this as people just try to get it when they are little (kids) so that they experience the sickness as young people and have only mild symptoms. My kids both had it already with no issues. This is again a wasteful vaccine.


Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
The point is, overall I'm not going to knock one of the greatest medical advancements of all time.
The greatest advancements we have are the hygine we have at home. You have running water, which is warm and cold, sewers, soap etc. Simple hygiene is the key to a healthy life. Another key is avoiding the bad foods which are everywhere now, those are produced for the masses and therefore chemicals are used. Remember that the immunity system is located in your digestion system, so what you eat has direct influence on your immunity! If you eat trash, so will be your immunity.
Merovejec
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merovejec
05.17.2020 , 05:56 AM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
Spoiler
So that you do not call my posts rubbish, please let me link some sites

Here you will find what is inside a vaccine and also some of the side effects and restrictions. As you will read its not all that flashy. Many people will have alergic reactions which are far worse then getting a flue itself. Of course, many also die from this vaccine. These are naturally not facts you find on the internet or anywhere. People just hear the positives and also hear the arguments against the myths. There are also statistics of people who died of the flue even after getting the flue vaccine, just google it I dont want to provide specific sources.

If I would link what more is included in the vaccines like mercury (very little ofc they say), but its funny how they admit the metals like Alumiun (ofc they provide reasoning of how harmless it is). The production method is also interesting where they need to adapt the virus for humans, so the best way is to use human DNA so u need human genetic material. They acquire this mostly from when women have abortions and they use the embrios in labs to grow the virus in human tissue. Thats really nice. There is much more to this, but you should rather google this stuff than asking me to provide sources.
Merovejec
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Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
05.17.2020 , 07:06 AM | #288
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
You are the vlear example of what the world has become. People that do not allow any other opinion than the opinion of the masses. An opinion that is easily manipulated by the powerful. Its the same as burning “witches” in the past.
Well, that's one interpretation, but here's another: I am humble enough not to make comparisons about existing vaccines to non-existent ones for two reasons:

1) I'm not an expert; and

2) More broadly (and abstractly), I've found in life it is difficult to compare X to Y when one of those variables doesn't even exist.

So, you see, you think I'm a mindless sheep, slave to a Star Chamber cabal (a la the Imperial Agent storyline) that runs and manipulates the universe (which is false, since I would be head of said cabal !).

Conversely, I think you're an arrogant, anti-science, dark web, tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist who cherry picks sources of information to fit your pre-existing narratives.

But that's me. You do you, Doogie, Dora, and Fox.

Dasty

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
05.17.2020 , 07:55 AM | #289
Against my better judgement I was actually going to respond directly to Mero for their comments #283 and #284. But from their last two comments it is abundantly clear that they are anti-vaccine and no amount of data, even from their own Public Health Office (English translation) is going to penetrate their cognitive bias.

For example, their claim about mercury in vaccines. Yes, thimerosal, a form of organic mercury, has been used in vaccines for a while. But they make no distinction between elemental mercury (the stuff that used to be in thermometers and is highly toxic) and organic mercury. Does not identify that thimerosal only remains in the blood for a short time if it even reaches you (it will often break down before the vaccine is even administered). And does not point out that only multi-dose flu vaccines contain thimerosol. Single dose vaccines, which is what most people get, do not contain thimerosol. Further, thimerosal has been removed from all childhood vaccines (some never even had it). They comment about aluminum in vaccines. Again, they don't identify that the aluminum found in vaccines is an aluminum salt and not directly elemental aluminum. Nor do their identify that an infant will, on average, ingest more aluminum from breast feeding in a six month period than they will from six months of vaccines. Formula feed infants will ingest even more than that. They didn't bring up formaldehyde, but I will because it's another oft used chemical to besmirch vaccines by anti-vaxxers. Simply put, you have formaldehyde in you right now. It is naturally occurring. There is more formaldehyde in a pear than you will ever get in a vaccine. The last fallacious claim made was about aborted embryonic tissue use. Lets get this out of the way first, yes, embryonic tissue is used to make some vaccines. Specifically Rubella, Chickenpox, Hepatitis A, one version of Rabies, and Polio. Embryonic tissue is not used to make the flu vaccine. It will not be needed to make a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Further, the embryonic tissue that is used to make those vaccines was collected in the 1960's. No additional tissue has been collected since then since those samples have been well maintained.

Why don't I include links to sources? Because I use so many that my entire post would be yellow or I would have to include a bibliography as long as the post itself. Everything in my posts can be Google and easily verified. Unlike anecdotal claims about personal experience from a person who has repeatedly said that they place little value in empirical data, do not trust the news or reporting agencies, and has now revealed themselves to be anti-vaccine.
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merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
05.17.2020 , 08:02 AM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
1) I'm not an expert
Its pretty obvious that we will not find an expert virologist here on the swtor forums..... yet there are things that you can simply deduce by common sence and logic. This new vaccine will not be some kind of wonder or fame changer. It still needs basic material like the rest.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
Conversely, I think you're an arrogant, anti-science, dark web, tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist who cherry picks sources of information to fit your pre-existing narratives.
You see? Sometimes you are able to lead a reasonable conversation.
Arrogant? Maybe. Anti-science? Yes and no. I would like to rid myself of science yet i am just too used to the comfort it offers so I am weak in this. Dark Web? Wut??? Thats full of crimal stuff what has that got to do with this?

Conspiracy theorist is where it gets interesting. I am pretty sure a person like you has seen quite a few movies. Just remember some of them that talked about how people are lied to so that they believe its the truth. Look at Matrix for example. People were so into it that they took the lie for the truth. Sure its a movie, sci-fi even. Another example, Wag the Dog (with Robert deNiro). Its about how you could manipulate the minds of people via fake news. Sure, another movie. I could keep going here. The important thing to realize here is that one cannot really tell whats true these days. If I was the bad guy and there would be people who know the truth and spread it around I would have a choice to kill them or to persuade the masses that these people are crazy, conspiracy theorist, and that would solve my issues without any deaths involved. Just people are experts it doesnt mean what they say it the naked truth. People have their price for which they will say whatever. In the pharma business this is mainly so.
Merovejec
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