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Agent and Smuggler Class Changes in 6.1.1 - Feedback

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Agent and Smuggler Class Changes in 6.1.1 - Feedback
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DanielSteed's Avatar


DanielSteed
03.05.2020 , 03:15 PM | #1 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hello everyone!

In addition to The Nature of Progress Operation getting Master Mode and the new Set Bonuses, Game Update 6.1.1 will see some Class changes. Primarily our focus is towards adjusting how healing works. Below you will find a list of changes that can be found on the upcoming PTS build for Agents and Smugglers.

Operative / Scoundrel

  • The Aggressive Medication set bonus is slightly redesigned:
    • 4 piece - Now removes the energy cost for Toxic Haze / Bushwhack and appropriately works on the healer's ranged version of the ability as well
  • The Tactician set bonus has been rebalanced:
    • 4 piece - Tactical Overdrive / Hot Streak no longer resets the cooldown of Backstab / Back Blast, the critical chance increasing effect cannot occur more than once every 18 seconds (up from 10 seconds), and the critical chance it provides is 10% (down from 15%)

Medicine / Sawbones

  • Accomplished Doctor / Sawbones now also allows the initial heal from Kolto Infusion / Pack to refresh the duration of a 2-stack Kolto Probe / Slow-release Medpac in addition to its other effects
  • Fixed an issue where Kolto Waves did not appropriately generate Tactical Medicine / Bedside Manner when used with the Regenerative Waves tactical item
  • Tactical Item: The effect provided by Diagnostics Probe now lasts up to 15 seconds (up from 6 seconds)

Concealment / Scrapper

  • Prey on the Weak / Pierce and Batter now increases damage done by Laceration / Sucker Punch by 10% on targets affected by your Acid Blade / Flechette Round (up from 5%)
  • Calculated Frenzy / Rolling Punches now increases ranged and tech critical chance by 10% after Backstab / Back Blast is used (up from 5%)


Lethality / Ruffian

  • Cut Down now increases the damage of Lethal Strike / Point Blank Shot , Overload Shot / Quick Shot and Noxious Knives / Lacerating Blast by 15% (up from 5%) and increases the damage of Shiv / Blaster Whip by 10% on targets affected by your poison / bleed effects
  • Acidic Compounds now increases Toxic Blast / Sanguinary Shot damage by 10% (up from 5%)

Sniper / Gunslinger

Virulence / Dirty Fighting

  • The periodic damage effect applied by Lethal Shot / Dirty Shot with Exploited Weakness Tactical has been reduced by 30%

Let us know what your thoughts! Please tell us if you think certain changes make a class overpowered or underpowered. More changes are in the works for Agents and Smugglers. As those changes are made, this thread will be updated. Throughout the next week or so, a thread for Troopers/Bounty Hunters will be created with their respective changes too.
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septru's Avatar


septru
03.05.2020 , 05:26 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by DanielSteed View Post
  • Accomplished Doctor / Sawbones now also allows the initial heal from Kolto Infusion / Pack to refresh the duration of a 2-stack Kolto Probe / Slow-release Medpac in addition to its other effects
A couple things to note (from a pvp perspective).

I agree with a general increase in healing across the deck because it is quite clear that healing on a whole needs to be buffed in comparison to how strong damage is right. With that said, operative healing is in the fortunate position to be the strongest healing class in pvp at the moment, so any buff to them should be much more moderate than to the other two healing classes.

I assume that when using Kolto Infusion and refreshing the duration of a 2-stack kolto probe, the refreshing effect will automatically trigger a tick from the kolto probe. I need to see the numbers, but if this is a 5k-10k tick then this could be the perfectly moderate buff to healing that is needed for operatives.

HOWEVER, I do not agree with this new effect of Kolto Infusion. In pvp, the distinguishing factor between a good healer and a bad is healer is the ability to maintain and sustain a 2 stack kolto probe on everyone on your team. It is quite obvious if a a operative healer is bad because they will constantly let their probes fall and have to reapply their kolto probes on the target rather than merely refresh its duration. In fact, at the moment the only hard part of operative healer is keeping your probes up. I do not endorse this new change because it will make keeping one's probes up much easier.

While a small increase of healing is necessary we should not sacrifice the skill of a class for this buff..
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw

AllisonLightning's Avatar


AllisonLightning
03.05.2020 , 06:35 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
A couple things to note (from a pvp perspective).

I agree with a general increase in healing across the deck because it is quite clear that healing on a whole needs to be buffed in comparison to how strong damage is right. With that said, operative healing is in the fortunate position to be the strongest healing class in pvp at the moment, so any buff to them should be much more moderate than to the other three healing classes.

I assume that when using Kolto Infusion and refreshing the duration of a 2-stack kolto probe, the refreshing effect will automatically trigger a tick from the kolto probe. I need to see the numbers, but if this is a 5k-10k tick then this could be the perfectly moderate buff to healing that is needed for operatives.

HOWEVER, I do not agree with this new effect of Kolto Infusion. In pvp, the distinguishing factor between a good healer and a bad is healer is the ability to maintain and sustain a 2 stack kolto probe on everyone on your team. It is quite obvious if a a operative healer is bad because they will constantly let their probes fall and have to reapply their kolto probes on the target rather than merely refresh its duration. In fact, at the moment the only hard part of operative healer is keeping your probes up. I do not endorse this new change because it will make keeping one's probes up much easier.

While a small increase of healing is necessary we should not sacrifice the skill of a class for this buff..
My pet interest with Kolto Infusion/Pack is that you should get the upfront heal (with no reduction from taking utility) and it's HoT (utility is still worth as a DCD and the auto two stack). It'd single handedly balance our upfront healing issues but from a PvE NiM perspective, this buff isn't as scary as you make it out to be in sustaining your probes and is an interesting change but fairly weak as far as increase in our effective healing. I'm assuming you're talking from an arena perspective as opposed to an 8v8.

I'd much rather my change because it'd pack more punch burst wise than their change which at best is just an extra refresh and certainly not one I can use group wide and well, I want an extra fast cheap tick, surgical probe. It's not as scary as the changes you're making out. There's every chance the sorc changes will put them as too much in PvE considering how long the meta was a sorc healer and then a merc co healer. My feedback here is, don't make us overpowered but please, don't allow a situation where we're the least viable healer in PvE.

There's nothing about this that really decreases the skill threshold required to play operative. I mean, you have a lot of operatives running around with the amps that make them the weaker version of a merc than the BiS ones which produce the best numbers because why rely on the class's mainstay? This won't increase the number of operatives in PvE, especially with sorc healers getting a buff.
I would hazard a guess this won't increase operatives in PvP either. You might see more sorcs again.
http://www.swtor.com/r/xsvzTv

Come to the dark side, where you get cookies and so do I.

go_rogue's Avatar


go_rogue
03.05.2020 , 07:17 PM | #4
I agreed with the 50% reduction from the Exploited Weakness tactical because it was OP at the time, and it left me with lots of damage output still. I do not agree with further reduction, especially when I'm seeing parses of other ranged DOT specs (Innovative Ordinance) parsing loads higher. Leave Exploited Weakness alone. It's in a good place right now. I'm coming at this from a PVE HM ops perspective.

septru's Avatar


septru
03.05.2020 , 07:45 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonLightning View Post
My pet interest with Kolto Infusion/Pack is that you should get the upfront heal (with no reduction from taking utility) and it's HoT (utility is still worth as a DCD and the auto two stack). It'd single handedly balance our upfront healing issues but from a PvE NiM perspective, this buff isn't as scary as you make it out to be in sustaining your probes and is an interesting change but fairly weak as far as increase in our effective healing. I'm assuming you're talking from an arena perspective as opposed to an 8v8.

I'd much rather my change because it'd pack more punch burst wise than their change which at best is just an extra refresh and certainly not one I can use group wide and well, I want an extra fast cheap tick, surgical probe. It's not as scary as the changes you're making out. There's every chance the sorc changes will put them as too much in PvE considering how long the meta was a sorc healer and then a merc co healer. My feedback here is, don't make us overpowered but please, don't allow a situation where we're the least viable healer in PvE.

There's nothing about this that really decreases the skill threshold required to play operative. I mean, you have a lot of operatives running around with the amps that make them the weaker version of a merc than the BiS ones which produce the best numbers because why rely on the class's mainstay? This won't increase the number of operatives in PvE, especially with sorc healers getting a buff.
I would hazard a guess this won't increase operatives in PvP either. You might see more sorcs again.
Sorry. I see a little confusion because of my inadequate description of the nature of operative healer in PvP. In pvp, maintaining a 2-stack probe is more difficult than pve because oftentimes players are all over the map. Additionally, as a healer most of your time is spent in stuns or being interrupted which challenges the ease to which a player can maintain their hots. While maintaining hots is a no-brainer for pve operative healing, realistically maintaining hots in pvp is difficult. This is not to say that maintain a 2 stack of hots in pvp is not a necessity like it is in pve; it is a necessity. But it is the challenge that separates good healers from bad healers. Bad healers will cast their castable abilities, while maintain 1 or 2 stacks of hots on some players intermittently throughout the fight. They will get stunned and interrupted and in the end they will end up with on average 10-14k hps. Good healers on the other hand will keep their probes up throughout the stuns and interrupts, refresh probes when necessary and often preemptively before a stun, and cast their castable abilities. Good healers will average 17-22k hps.

While I think, overall healing needs a small increase, it should not come at the cost of the skill difference. The game is already easy as it is. It is forgiving to mistakes and makes allowances for low skilled players. By allowing Kolto Infusion to refresh hots automatically with no needed thought to it, thsi will eliminate what little challenge there is to operative healing in pvp.

With this said, I really like your purposed change to operative heals. I think it overall solves our problem of low upfront healing, but does not sacrifice skill.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw

cflems's Avatar


cflems
03.05.2020 , 09:59 PM | #6
Disappointed to see no nerf to concealment (Volatile Strike) to go along with those to lightning and deception. The burst it provides is simply too strong to be spammable, exactly like maul spam. Please either give it a cooldown or blunt its autocrits a bit. 100-10 in every hardstun with healing being as weak as it is is ridiculous. I'm happy for operatives to get a sustained dps boost to compensate for the loss, much like lightning and deception did, but something needs to be done especially since the spec will now have no competition from those other 2.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
03.06.2020 , 04:28 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by go_rogue View Post
I agreed with the 50% reduction from the Exploited Weakness tactical because it was OP at the time, and it left me with lots of damage output still. I do not agree with further reduction, especially when I'm seeing parses of other ranged DOT specs (Innovative Ordinance) parsing loads higher. Leave Exploited Weakness alone. It's in a good place right now. I'm coming at this from a PVE HM ops perspective.
Virulence is still overperforming compared to the other 2 sniper specs. Now, if it's better to nerf Virulence or buff the other 2 (especially Engi) - well... I would love to see Engi buffed myself.

There aren't many OPS parses up on parsely but on the dummy there are almost 10 Virulence parses with over 25k DPS, while the 2nd highest spec is Anni mara with only 24.7k and every other class even further behind. Virulence easily has at the very least a 1k DPS advantage over pretty much every spec out there. So there is that. They aren't as great in real fights unless they can keep up the same uptime on Entrench but they are still strong. 30% nerf might have been a bit much but I think in general, a bit of a nerf is more of a positive thing.

omaan's Avatar


omaan
03.06.2020 , 07:10 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by DanielSteed View Post
Hello everyone!

In addition to The Nature of Progress Operation getting Master Mode and the new Set Bonuses, Game Update 6.1.1 will see some Class changes. Primarily our focus is towards adjusting how healing works. Below you will find a list of changes that can be found on the upcoming PTS build for Agents and Smugglers.

Operative / Scoundrel

  • The Aggressive Medication set bonus is slightly redesigned:
    • 4 piece - Now removes the energy cost for Toxic Haze / Bushwhack and appropriately works on the healer's ranged version of the ability as well

Medicine / Sawbones

  • Accomplished Doctor / Sawbones now also allows the initial heal from Kolto Infusion / Pack to refresh the duration of a 2-stack Kolto Probe / Slow-release Medpac in addition to its other effects

Sniper / Gunslinger

Virulence / Dirty Fighting

  • The periodic damage effect applied by Lethal Shot / Dirty Shot with Exploited Weakness Tactical has been reduced by 30%

Let us know what your thoughts! Please tell us if you think certain changes make a class overpowered or underpowered. More changes are in the works for Agents and Smugglers. As those changes are made, this thread will be updated. Throughout the next week or so, a thread for Troopers/Bounty Hunters will be created with their respective changes too.
This unfairness for class balance is outrageous when assassin and sorcerer main set bonuses are nerfed yet they get some compensation with other damage passive abilities buff,however you also make stealth nerf to operative tactician set bonus without mentioning it on forum AND not buffing anything instead like you did with sorcs and sins.*

How about fairness and equity??
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bladech's Avatar


bladech
03.06.2020 , 07:18 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
This unfairness for class balance is outrageous when assassin and sorcerer main set bonuses are nerfed yet they get some compensation with other damage passive abilities buff,however you also make stealth nerf to operative tactician set bonus without mentioning it on forum AND not buffing anything instead like you did with sorcs and sins.*

How about fairness and equity??
Yeah stealth nerf without any compensation only proves that devs gives love for certain specs while ignoring/hating other specs. They could give a minor buff to concealment passives too to compensate tactician set bonus nerf
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http://www.swtor.com/r/QKZXBf

AllisonLightning's Avatar


AllisonLightning
03.06.2020 , 07:27 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
This unfairness for class balance is outrageous when assassin and sorcerer main set bonuses are nerfed yet they get some compensation with other damage passive abilities buff,however you also make stealth nerf to operative tactician set bonus without mentioning it on forum AND not buffing anything instead like you did with sorcs and sins.*

How about fairness and equity??
What stealth nerf to Tactician's are you talking about?
http://www.swtor.com/r/xsvzTv

Come to the dark side, where you get cookies and so do I.