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Crafting Changes Coming in December (6.0.2)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Crafting Changes Coming in December (6.0.2)
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Freyasin's Avatar


Freyasin
11.14.2019 , 09:36 AM | #61
I think I have gotten 1 leg ember from a mission once. Sometimes when I RE all the drops fro FP's I can get 1. As someone who does about 80 missions a day, it unreasonable to have high end mats required. The person who came up with this idea for crafting has absolute zero common sense.

When I am making a FP run I make the comps do missons, but when I start farming they make cell grafts now. I used to wait until I was done farming, but I got TIRED of spending 3 hours making grafts so 1 comp can make a batch of pacs. To make things worse, they can't even keep up.

However....its much better to run missions every chance you get, then when you farm nodes for 3 DAYS, on the 4th day you can make some pacs without having to spend hours making grafts. Lets not forget you better go to fleet also, because your going to be buying to white mats from the vender because doing missions for 3 days straight will last about 20 mins of making grafts.

Is this a game or a second job ?

Hawkebatt's Avatar


Hawkebatt
11.14.2019 , 10:44 AM | #62
The flash point mat is dropping enough as I have nearly 400 of them, but they should drop for every pvp match that you do.
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Void_Singer's Avatar


Void_Singer
11.14.2019 , 11:31 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[...]please use this thread to share your feedback on the changes.
As requested. (beware, I do statistics for fun)

Quote:
  • The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:
    • Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
    • Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
    • The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
No mention of Vendor Supplements, but I'll be generous and assume they've seen similar changes, bringing the raw materials ratio for each quality to 2:3:6. While this represents roughly half the total materials cost of previous, without knowing harvest/gather/mission returns I can't tell if this change is meaningful. I can tell that it reduces the effect of criticals on premium "combination matterials" (hearafter "components").

two alternative sugggestions, both simpler than the above, and more inline with the 6.0 design intent
Alternative A
  • CHANGE:
    • leave the "convert" value at 3 (no change from current)
    • Multiply all Material requirements by (X / 5)
    • Multiply all supplement requirements by ((X-1) / 4)
    • X = 2 or 3
  • RESULT:
    • Material Ratio remains the same: 1:2:6
    • Compononet Ratio (and critical effect) remains the same 1:3:9

Alternative B
  • CHANGE:
    • change the "convert" value to 2 for all qualities
    • use the same value for material / supplement requirements for all 3 qualities
  • RESULT:
    • Material and component Ratio falls naturally at 1:2:4
    • critical effect also reduced by 1/3 per quality tier
    • easier numbers to manage for tuning harvest / gather / mission reutrns

Critical Effect explained
Spoiler

Quote:
  • Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:
I have to ask... WHY!?
Harvesting has always been problematic for the following reasons
  • Harvest Nodes are too sparse with few exceptions (Balmorra, Yavin, Zakuul, Mek'Sha)
  • Harvesting is NOT Group Friendly (No one wants to wait on the person benefiting only themselves)
  • Harvesting is NOT Community Friendly (People on quests don't want you killing trash they need for goals)
  • Harvesting is NOT Personally Friendly (Nodes are directly contested resources)
    • As a consequence, Harvesting is not reliable (The more people doing it, the less efficient it is)

It's fine as an opportunistic and supplementary system, but it's horrible as a primary method. There is no fix for this, because any reasonable fix enables credit farmers.

Quote:
    • Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
    • Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
    • Reduce the overall failure rate of “grey” quality Missions.
those statements are too vague to evaluate, so instead allow me to list my expectations.
  • Grade 11 Wealthy Missions
    • Return types: All qualities and type of materials in it's grade (same as lower grades)
    • Return quantities: Base values equal to Critical Success on a grade 11 Bountiful Mission, Critical Success Values
    • equal to Critical Success on Grade 11 Rich Missions
  • Grade 11 Rich Missions
    • Return types: all qualities of materials in it's grade for it's type (same as lower grades)
    • Return quantites: Base values in the rough ratio required by components (currently 1:2:6, 1:2:4 in my "Alternative B" suggestion)
  • Grade 11 Bountiful Missions
    • Return types: Premium, and Prototype materials in it's grade / type, Artifact on critical
    • Return quantities: Base values in the rough ratio required by components (currently 1:2:6, 1:2:4 in my "Alternative B" suggestion)
  • Grade 11 Lockboxes (both)
    • Just do exactly what you did for all other grades of these
  • Grade 1-11 Color Crystals
    • Please stop making these single random rolls... it's horrible... a fixed value for each color with a random component is much more acceptable
  • Grade 11 Abundant Missions
    • Return types: Premium materials in it's grade / type, Prototype on critical
    • Return quantities: Base values in the rough ratio required by components (currently 1:2:6, 1:2:4 in my "Alternative B" suggestion)
  • Grade 11 Vendor Supplement Missions
    • Return types: All qualities and type of materials in it's grade (same as lower grades)
    • Return quantities: Base values in the rough ratio required by components (currently 1:2:6, 1:2:4 in my "Alternative B" suggestion), large multiple of required for a single component (same as Lower Grades)
  • Grade 11 Moderate Missions
    • Return types: Premium materials in it's grade / type
    • Return quantities: See Below
  • Grade 11 Harvest Nodes
    • Return Types: All qualities below the highest quality given
    • Return quantities: Base values in the rough ratio required by components (currently 1:2:6, 1:2:4 in my "Alternative B" suggestion), can be more highly randomized

Quantities are mostly tweakable, but should closely resemble the multiples of previous tiers based on the "Infused" type (eg at the 1:2:6 ratio, Moderate Misions should provide at least Half the premium materials required to make one Prototype Component as a base)

Quote:
  • Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:
    • Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
    • Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.
  • Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:
    • The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
    • We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.
Nice to hear about schematic changes, although I am not overly bothered by the lower chances with the Matrix requirement removed from practice level crafting schematics.

RE deconstruction returns:
There appear to be 2 major bugs.
BUG #1: Dropped Loot Deconstruction misbehavior
  • OBSERVED:
    • Deconstructing a dropped item of a type WITHIN your crafting profession returns jawa scrap
    • Deconstructing a dropped item of a type OUTSIDE your crafting professing returns jawa scrap AND Tech Fragments
    • Side Issue: no way to determine beforehand which profession an armor piece is within
  • EXPECTED:
    • The exact opposite of the above, or at least better returns for a matching crafting profession


BUG #2: Materials Storage Prevents Proper Deconstruction
  • OBSERVED:
    • Items that have been ever stored in Materials Storage do not deconstruct to materials, but rather to jawa scrap as if they were dropped/or the wrong profession.
  • EXPECTED:
    • Materials Storage should not affect deconstruction

Quote:
  • The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:
    • Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
ratio is 1:2:6, not sure how the 7 crept in there, but I suspect it was a repeated typo.
Regardless, if you are changing the requirements for components (as you mentioned earlier in your post), then the new inflow should match the new ratio, not the current one.
calculation hidden below for the curious
Spoiler

Quote:
These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts.
I have 4 more issues I'd like to add to the list...
BUG: Some Crew Missions return partial rewards
  • Multiple crew skill missions are only returning partial reward counts. They return only the fixed part of their rewards, but not the random addition. and example of this would be the Grade 11 Archaeology, Moderate Yield, Power Crystals: "Calling Home", which returns a flat 10 for success, and 20 for critical. there are others in the Mission Skills, and I suspect more at higher yields.

BUG: +Critical Crafting Amplifer does nothing
  • +Critical Amplifiers do not appear to do anything. and it's nearly impossible to guess what they are supposed to do

Oversight
Parts list requirements for Modifications, Static Gear Pieces, Augments, and Biochem Reusuables are out of synch with game usage.
  • OBSERVED:
    • Augments and Biochchem reusables have the lowest construction costs, despite being equivalent to max endagme gear
    • Static Gear pieces and modifications have the highest costs, despite not being max stat endgame gear
    • Modifications have an equal cost to Static Gear pieces, despite offering <1/3 the stats of of static gear pieces and requiring a shell piece to go into.
  • EXPECTED:
    • Reusables should have the highest crafting cost as endgame gear with max beneifits, that skirt money sinks.
    • Augments should also be at or near highest crafting cost (for their max versions), as they are endgame gear with max benefits
    • Static Gear pieces should have lower crafting costs, relative to their iRating vs endgame gear with max benefits
    • Modifications should be significantly lower crafting costs still, relative to their iRating vs endgame gear with max benefits

Request for information
Currently in the Crafting profession, there are several unknowns which make testing and cornfirming bugs very difficult (especially if you don't know what the expected behavior is). While the community is very resourceful, dedicated, and tenacious, the following information is unknown and would be helful
  • Intended Failure Percentage for crew skill missions at each difficulty?
    • This was aproximated at 0% Grey, 1% Green, 5% yellow, 10% Orange prior to Onslaught, and assumed to have a +5% global chance with onslaught.
  • Intended formula of +Success <gather/mission skill> Amplifiers?
    • Guessing the formula is either (FAILURE_CHANCE - SUCCESS_AMPS), or (FAILURE_CHANCE * (1 - SUCCESS_AMPS))
  • Intended formula of +Critical <craft skill> Amplifiers?

Quote:
As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.
And thank you Eric for the acknowledgement, information, and opportunity to communicate directly on these issues.

Cheers,
- Void
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if it stops moving... shoot it again.
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LadyAdmiral's Avatar


LadyAdmiral
11.14.2019 , 11:33 AM | #64
Hello, I am pretty happy with the proposed changes!

Can you please add one more to the list. Armormech's schematics a "broken/bugged" compared to Synthweaving for its MK-0 non-moddifiable armor and resistive armoring. The green schematics (the ones you get from the trainer) requires the Solid Resource Matrix (they are bugged and are requiring the materials the next tier requires).

This has scared a lot of players off of crafting because if they start with Armormech they don't realize that the other crew skills do not have this too-steep starter cost.

Example comparison: https://imgur.com/a/AtHY73V

Here is a list of the "bugged" items:

Quote:
Resistive Armoring 77
War-Forged Asylum Belt MK-0
War-Forged Asylum Body Armor MK-0
War-Forged Asylum Boots MK-0
War-Forged Asylum Bracers MK-0
War-Forged Asylum Gauntlets MK-0
War-Forged Asylum Helmet MK-0
War-Forged Asylum Legplates MK-0
War-Forged Mender Armguards MK-0
War-Forged Mender Belt MK-0
War-Forged Mender Boots MK-0
War-Forged Mender Gloves MK-0
War-Forged Mender Headgear MK-0
War-Forged Mender Jacket MK-0
War-Forged Mender Leggings MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Armguards MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Belt MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Boots MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Gloves MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Headgear MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Jacket MK-0
War-Forged Onslaught Leggings MK-0
~ Swtorista

_NovaBlast_'s Avatar


_NovaBlast_
11.14.2019 , 11:45 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post
The irony of course being: Much of SWTOR's 6.0 was umm inspired by ESO's very similar systems.

Either way, i prefer STAR WARS, so i stay right here.

To Each His Own .
TBH so do I ...mainly because i miss Kira when i am gone but ESO it may have been inspired but in practice truly lets me "Play my way" even to the point where I can solo some group dungeons without really worrying about my health.....so you have to go with the game that is allowing you to play how you want really.....if bioware stop just using that as a catchphrase and actually means it and starts adding companion content to every expansion and actually means it when they say "play your way " i'll be back .
<3 Kira is back <3 YAY !!! ...for 2 min.... and then ..no interaction
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
If you're playing a BioWare game for something other than story and characters then you're doing it wrong.
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Void_Singer's Avatar


Void_Singer
11.14.2019 , 11:48 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
[...]
Also, can the devs give some of the Crew Missions a quick pass-through please? Different materials are not always available from the same type of mission, I'll include an example;
Spoiler

[...]
This is just a display bug, Grade 11 Bioanalysis, Rich Yield "Polution Solution" actually returns Biochemical Samples.

There are however some issues with skills only returning the fixed portion of their output, and not the random part, which is causing artificial inbalances between materials of the same yield... both have been bug reported by myself
If it moves, shoot it.
if it stops moving... shoot it again.
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fallrain's Avatar


fallrain
11.14.2019 , 12:01 PM | #67
Once gathering is at 700 one doesn't get anything from open world gathering... this seems like an issue... the number of times open world gathering fails currently also seems like an issue... and needing a month and a half to fix something that could have been figured out on the PTR yep amazing just amazing. I guess the devs like to run around looking for nodes only to have them fail cause that's one way to test such things *shrug* I'm sure it didn't happen though or it wouldn't be an issue. Wasn't that the purpose for holding off on the September release to better test stuff before it went into play?

Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
11.14.2019 , 12:07 PM | #68
This has probably already been mentioned, however please fix the display bug in the crew skills window which currently fails to correctly show or update how many items can be made. Example: in the following screenshot I should be able to make x1 Artifact Curious Cell Craft but it's listing I can make 0:
https://imgur.com/a/ZMe2pCE
I've seen this on all my crafters and so far it only seems to be affecting the new crafting items from 6.0.
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Void_Singer's Avatar


Void_Singer
11.14.2019 , 12:15 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarova View Post
This has probably already been mentioned, however please fix the display bug in the crew skills window which currently fails to correctly show or update how many items can be made. Example: in the following screenshot I should be able to make x1 Artifact Curious Cell Craft but it's listing I can make 0:
https://imgur.com/a/ZMe2pCE
I've seen this on all my crafters and so far it only seems to be affecting the new crafting items from 6.0.
I didn't mention it above because it's just a display bug....

... well, it's actually two bugs, because the left pane refusing to update happens independently of the right pane refusing to update...
I think I've nailed down the cause on both. Left pane only updates the first craft it finds with those materials then exits before updating the rest.... the right pane fails to update when any value falls to zero (probably exiting with a backend error message caused by a bad fencepost count)
If it moves, shoot it.
if it stops moving... shoot it again.
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Trajie's Avatar


Trajie
11.14.2019 , 12:29 PM | #70
Unless they reduce the training cost to learn any of the skills above 600, I won't be crafting. I don't have 1.5 million to throw away on all my alts to train crafting/gathering skills. You might make it back with slicing, but that got reduced with the previous patch.
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