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All the systems for 6.0 seem unappealing. Bioware you need to pay attention.


TrixxieTriss

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The game was harder, but stats didnt matter much unless you were soloing stuff.

 

Sure, i’ll concede, if you ran in a 4 man trinity group everywhere you did not need to worry about stats unless you were doing flash points, ops or 4 man heroics. But how many people actually played all the time in groups like that?

You also proved what we were saying because you referred to stats actually mattering if you weren’t in a group. Which means you needed to gear correctly or you were always at the whim of others to play the content you wanted.

Some of the actual solo story bosses were also hard and not everyone wanted to wait to get help with them or could get help to start with. I remember Baris being pretty hard at the end of Sith warrior story and I died numerous times till I got the right gear and learnt his mechanics. Most people I knew at the time got others to help them.

Gearing did actually matter and I think you have rose coloured glasses if you think it didn’t.

 

Edit : you might also have forgotten it was nearly as important to gear your comps up properly too because there was no generic stats or roles for them back then. An under geared or poorly geared comp could be just as bad as being under geared yourself.

Edited by Totemdancer
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They dont have to be RNG, but that doesnt mean it shouldn't be, sometimes. Its not your cup of tea? Thanks for your input. Tally 1 for non-RNG, or perhaps tally 1 for RNG if you keep paying and/or playing. Again, your vote/voice is only worth 1, the same as all of us, per account.

That's just plain obtuse.

What do you work for biofail or have no life and NEED to spend 80 hours/week to get gear?

It is more like 99.9% no votes for RNG, don't lie.

Edited by Kifusan
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My memory might not be all that good, but I can clearly remember one time during vanilla that I had accidentally equipped my Smuggler with Trooper mods. Only after I noticed did I think that killing things had seemed a bit harder.

 

So, gear has always been important - but not THAT important. 😊

 

Gear has always been a thing for min-maxxers and dedicated PvP'ers, but for general PvE it's always been less important. Often it comes down to whether you kill an enemy with 12 attacks, or 13. Whoopie! 😎

Edited by JediQuaker
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Sure, i’ll concede, if you ran in a 4 man trinity group everywhere you did not need to worry about stats unless you were doing flash points, ops or 4 man heroics. But how many people actually played all the time in groups like that?

You also proved what we were saying because you referred to stats actually mattering if you weren’t in a group. Which means you needed to gear correctly or you were always at the whim of others to play the content you wanted.

Some of the actual solo story bosses were also hard and not everyone wanted to wait to get help with them or could get help to start with. I remember Baris being pretty hard at the end of Sith warrior story and I died numerous times till I got the right gear and learnt his mechanics. Most people I knew at the time got others to help them.

Gearing did actually matter and I think you have rose coloured glasses if you think it didn’t.

 

Edit : you might also have forgotten it was nearly as important to gear your comps up properly too because there was no generic stats or roles for them back then. An under geared or poorly geared comp could be just as bad as being under geared yourself.

Different era. It didnt cater to solo play, comps were weaker - both of which would lead someone to believe min/maxing was needed. However, you still didnt need to min/max because there were a lot more players around to group with. Having the trinity was extremely common, and even if you didnt, having 3dps and 1t/h was doable as well.

 

Nowadays, at least in 6.0, the situation is reversed, but the need for min/maxing through content isnt (sans hm/nim). The trinity (and playerbase) is more scarce, but the content is scaled, the comps are very resilient. It makes up for it, at least in my experience on PTS. Its actually a great example of how BW has been cognizant of, and reactive to, the changes the game has needed, and appropriately applied them. Perhaps the changes werent the most bestest in your eyes, but it kept the game going many, many years.

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My memory might not be all that good, but I can clearly remember one time during vanilla that I had accidentally equipped my Smuggler with Trooper mods. Only after I noticed did I think that killing things had seemed a bit harder.

 

So, gear has always been important - but not THAT important. 😊

 

Gear has always been a thing for min-maxxers and dedicated PvP'ers, but for general PvE it's always been less important. Often it comes down to whether you kill an enemy with 12 attacks, or 13. Whoopie! 😎

Exactly. Was it more difficult? Yes, nobody has stated that it wasnt (although many seem to feel im saying that). Im not saying that. Never have. Im saying gear was never as important as people are believing. I am still playing, successfully, having used gear that wasnt intended for my class during vanilla swtor. It happened. It didnt affect my ability to reach this point. Life continued. People are just being melodramatic, a common finding of this playerbase.

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Of course it was harder to level if you had the wrong stats in the beginning of the game.

You had to match your class to your stat

Operatives/Smugglers = Cunning

BH / Commando = Aim

Inquisitors / Consulars = Willpower

Warriors / Knights = Strength

 

And, in order to make your companions useful, you had to gear them in the correct stats as well.

Not to mention some classes got their healer companion last in their story (that was always a blast)

...and for those of you who weren't around for that, our companions were DPS or Tanks or Healers....no companion could do more than their one role at the time.

 

Was it impossible to level if you used tank gear on your sniper? No, not impossible, but it was a significant challenge if you weren't over leveled. When I played back then I remember the gear became noticeably more important somewhere between level 35-40. It took a few different toons to realize that.

 

Getting back to the whole RNG gearing system that we have on PTS...

Green gear has always been basic starter gear for whatever content was new. It should be relatively cheap and common. Blue gear, to me at least, was always the "standard" that players should have. It shouldn't drop from the sky, but the harder mobs out in the work, the gold mobs for example, and the champions, should drop it fairly often. The purples / artifact gear is the rare type for random npc drops.

 

RNG out in the world for those loot types is totally fine and has been in the game since day one.

 

Talking about how it was in the past, especially in Vanilla, is an attempt to distract away from the main point.

The main point, which, when they update PTS next week, could very well change again.

 

They messed up with the initial design of 6.0.

They are going to lose subs if they don't fix it to a satisfactory degree

Some people will say good riddance, they always do.

This time, however, it won't be JUST frequent forum posters leaving. Some of these mighty social media Influencers may leave as well. They aren't on these forums posting frequently, putting their thoughts out there for the devs to read. We don't see what, or if, they're talking to the devs at all.

But IF they do leave, they'll take people away with them...or keep curious people away.

 

Just a prediction.

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Different era. It didnt cater to solo play, comps were weaker - both of which would lead someone to believe min/maxing was needed. However, you still didnt need to min/max because there were a lot more players around to group with. Having the trinity was extremely common, and even if you didnt, having 3dps and 1t/h was doable as well.

 

Nowadays, at least in 6.0, the situation is reversed, but the need for min/maxing through content isnt (sans hm/nim). The trinity (and playerbase) is more scarce, but the content is scaled, the comps are very resilient. It makes up for it, at least in my experience on PTS. Its actually a great example of how BW has been cognizant of, and reactive to, the changes the game has needed, and appropriately applied them. Perhaps the changes werent the most bestest in your eyes, but it kept the game going many, many years.

 

90% of my original gameplay was solo.

The only time I ever grouped for the original story content was when I COULDN'T kill something (because I didn't understand gearing)

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Different era. It didnt cater to solo play, comps were weaker - both of which would lead someone to believe min/maxing was needed. However, you still didnt need to min/max because there were a lot more players around to group with. Having the trinity was extremely common, and even if you didnt, having 3dps and 1t/h was doable as well.

 

Nowadays, at least in 6.0, the situation is reversed, but the need for min/maxing through content isnt (sans hm/nim). The trinity (and playerbase) is more scarce, but the content is scaled, the comps are very resilient. It makes up for it, at least in my experience on PTS. Its actually a great example of how BW has been cognizant of, and reactive to, the changes the game has needed, and appropriately applied them. Perhaps the changes werent the most bestest in your eyes, but it kept the game going many, many years.

 

What are you talking about? People only grouped up for heroics and flashpoints. No one was running in groups while leveling doing their story quests and side quests. The game pretty much discouraged that with how story instances worked.

 

No one is saying leveling back then was extremely difficult either. Just compared to today you actually had to pay attention back then and have your gear decently upgraded, especially when doing boss fights within your story instances. You had to actually use your stuns and interrupts correctly else you'd get wrecked, especially if you didn't have your healing companion yet. The addition of treek is what started making it brainless because her healing was so damn strong, but back then you couldn't just waltz through content with gear that's 10-15 levels behind like you can now because of how strong companions are.

Edited by Raansu
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What are you talking about? People only grouped up for heroics and flashpoints. No one was running in groups while leveling doing their story quests and side quests. The game pretty much discouraged that with how story instances worked.

 

No one is saying leveling back then was extremely difficult either. Just compared to today you actually had to pay attention back then, especially when doing boss fights within your story instances. You had to actually use your stuns and interrupts correctly else you'd get wrecked, especially if you didn't have your healing companion yet. The addition of treek is what started making it brainless because her healing was so damn strong.

Are you agreeing with me or .......??

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when I COULDN'T kill something (because I didn't understand gearing)

 

Same for me at the time (till I spent time to learn it)

Imagine how new or less knowledgeable people are going to react to the overly complicated and heavy RNG system in 6.0 if it went live as it currently is on the PTS.

They are making changes to it, but they need to make so many changes to ease back on the RNG and hopefully uncomplicate the system as it currently is or people won’t be able to have fun trying to gear. I’m really concerned there isn’t time or that they are willing to go far enough when making the changes.

And it’s not just the RNG gearing rewards, vendor’s or drops. There is also the crafting system that is so onerous that no one in their right mind will use it to gear up. The current PTS version for crafting is so out of balance compared to the time x costs vs world drops. And that is for green gear that should be the easiest, cheapest and fastest to make because it’s always been entry level gear. I’m not even talking about blue or purple items which are even worse and also need to be looked at.

The idea of having to grind mastermode flashpoints to get isotopes to make green gear that would be redundant by the time you make it is mind blowingly stupid. Crafting needs just as much light shone on it as the whole setup RNG gearing.

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From what i saw on pts main source of gear will be ops/flash points. BUT pvp players have no desire and time to play pve yet we still need best gear/sets/amplifiers/tactical items for pvp....and since pvp gearing looks pretty weak you guys need to make IT as GOOD As PVE gearing because making pvp gearing slow is against "play what you want" policy, against pvp players, and any normal sense. Who will play something he doesn't like to get instruments he requries for playing something he likes? Yes, no one. people want to get what they need and what they want throughout playing what THEY LIKE. Thats what games were created for

 

As i wrote here.. we need new UCs and expertise gear or we going to have these pvp vs pve gearing conflicts forever

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Attaching RNG to progression gears isn't adding an element of "woohoo I got it finally!", instead it just adds tons of frustration and resentment with a feeling of time being wasted.

 

That "woohoo finally!" feeling should (used to) come at the end of that [insert content of choice and difficulty level here] and getting the reward for it. RNG is just a time gate. Clearly they don't want us to gear/progress quickly, but that would be better served through the content itself. But they clearly can't or won't develop new engaging content.

 

It always end up back to the same problem - content. Gear itself isn't content, content is content. This game has had a lack of content for years. This will be the first expansion in three years, prior to that there were no operations for two years, last year they tried combining story with flashpoints but that din't go over well with either camp. And now? I can understand them trying something new, but it really isn't new. They've been doing this same old song and dance for years.

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Same for me at the time (till I spent time to learn it)

Imagine how new or less knowledgeable people are going to react to the overly complicated and heavy RNG system in 6.0 if it went live as it currently is on the PTS.

They will likely not overreact because its not very complicated at all. Perhaps it is to you, but a we are all different. I dont mind helping you understand it, though.

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Erm....no. Vanilla didn't have mastery stat. You had to actually pay attention and be properly geared, especially since a lot of classes didn't get their healing companions till way later. You couldn't just run around and one shot everything like you can now. If you were undergeared or even slightly underleveled a lot of the story quests mini boss fights would absolutely wreck you.

 

I remember I used to do the planets out of order. The class story missions give you two planets, and I always chose the higher level planet for the challenge. Afterwards, I would do the easy planet (I was over-leveled) to get it done fast. Then when the story progressed, rinse repeat the next 2 planets.

 

Vanilla was significantly more difficult because levels mattered and companions weren't as effective, particularly if you never geared them. The trick to gearing your companion was to choose one with the same base stat as you (cunning for example) then hand-me-down your old gear as you acquire new pieces. It was easy.

 

If a mission was "red" difficulty (5 levels above, i think), you were likely to die because most of your attacks would miss unless you had over 110% accuracy. I usually aimed for the "orange" difficulty missions.

 

I actually had a lot of fun crafting purple gear for my lowbies back when gear mattered. Ahhh the good old crafting days :cool:

 

Or you are perceiving it that way.

 

Or you are perceiving that your arguments are not in circles. :confused::rolleyes:

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I remember I used to do the planets out of order. The class story missions give you two planets, and I always chose the higher level planet for the challenge. Afterwards, I would do the easy planet (I was over-leveled) to get it done fast. Then when the story progressed, rinse repeat the next 2 planets.

 

Vanilla was significantly more difficult because levels mattered and companions weren't as effective, particularly if you never geared them. The trick to gearing your companion was to choose one with the same base stat as you (cunning for example) then hand-me-down your old gear as you acquire new pieces. It was easy.

 

If a mission was "red" difficulty (5 levels above, i think), you were likely to die because most of your attacks would miss unless you had over 110% accuracy. I usually aimed for the "orange" difficulty missions.

 

I actually had a lot of fun crafting purple gear for my lowbies back when gear mattered. Ahhh the good old crafting days :cool:

 

My companions were always a tad bit undergeared because I was always too lazy to keep grinding planetary comms since back then they were unique to each planet lol. So I burned all I had to keep my character up to date and would use what was left over on my companion so it was a mish mash of ilvl mods lol. Those were the good ole days.

 

And ya, I miss crafting back then. It actually felt useful while leveling.

Edited by Raansu
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Trixxie, your WoW Classic plugging due to your disappointment in SWTOR and how the devs dealt with very specific issues you encountered is becoming a little tiresome to be honest.

 

I understand why you are disappointed in SWTOR and decided to cancel your subscription, but you seem to go out of your way now to devalue everything SWTOR by promoting the massiveness of WoW Classic. Let's be real here, the allure of WoW Classic is not because of superior game design via simplicity or making you work for stuff and most certainly not because it is less grindy or offers more content compared to SWTOR - to the contrary - but because it is walking down memory lane with an MMO that shaped an entire generation of gamers when it comes to online gaming.

 

Blizzard in its confused state of being part of a big stock corporation tries to monetize nostalgia and invested heavily in a massive promotion campaign through very popular streamers in order to keep their subscriber base that is disappointed/burned out with the latest WoW iteration. There is absolutely no wonder why you only need to be subscribed to the current WoW to automatically get access to WoW Classic and I really don't see any valuable insight the devs could get in their approach to SWTOR by looking at WoW Classic and its customer base.

 

very well said.

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They will likely not overreact because its not very complicated at all. Perhaps it is to you, but a we are all different. I dont mind helping you understand it, though.

 

OK, olagatonjedi, admit it: You are Andryah.

 

You use the exact same writing style and "logic" as them.

 

Are you actually on the PTS right now? I ask, because I play Swtor since beta and I generally play video games for 4 decades. And I think that this new gearing system is very complicated.

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OK, olagatonjedi, admit it: You are Andryah.

 

You use the exact same writing style and "logic" as them.

 

Are you actually on the PTS right now? I ask, because I play Swtor since beta and I generally play video games for 4 decades. And I think that this new gearing system is very complicated.

 

No, Andryah was more polite and personable -- and actually disliked a small handful of things that the devs did. Olag is seemingly more backhanded and passive aggressive. He strictly posts to argue an opposite opinion whenever the negative bandwagon starts, which often feels disingenuous and troll-ish (no offense , just explaining their difference as I see them).

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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OK, olagatonjedi, admit it: You are Andryah.

 

You use the exact same writing style and "logic" as them.

Not sure who that is, but based solely on how you describe him/her, he/she must be fairly intelligent.

 

Are you actually on the PTS right now? I ask, because I play Swtor since beta and I generally play video games for 4 decades. And I think that this new gearing system is very complicated.

I already answered that I am. On one toon, i used the medpac trick to deck my toon out. On another toon, I chose not to use the tech fragments for gearing and am doing just fine in gear progression doing VM and MM content, and following the "tips" given by the devs on how to gear up more efficiently. The fragments and renown crates are supplemental to increase chances, but by no means needed. It hasnt taken an outrageous amount of playtime either, but perhaps im a little more focused in my activity than some.

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