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All the systems for 6.0 seem unappealing. Bioware you need to pay attention.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
All the systems for 6.0 seem unappealing. Bioware you need to pay attention.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.04.2019 , 07:15 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I mean, I piss and moan at Eric all the time. Sure I realize hes just the messenger, but it is his job to hand our criticism off to people whose job it is, right? And yes, I primarily blame him for patently ignoring or refusing to reply to any criticism.

Look at the crap we've been screaming since 5.0. "We dont want more rng!" And what are they doing with 6.0? Layered rng. So did they misunderstand our complaint because musco didnt properly pass the word along or do they just not care what we want?
Right, that's what we always theorized in the past, that maybe the feedback off the forums never was getting passed up to the devs/game designers. How it could go on for so long though shows other layers of ineptness, then.

It just seems to me for far too long the fox was guarding the hen house, basically people were not being held accountable and too much free reign was given by EA to BW. My theory anyway.
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’d still like to know how you find someone’s legacy name if they don’t display it?
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Uh you don't know it because it is a secret knowledge of ranked players who use it to see the real appearance of other players through the force.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
09.04.2019 , 07:26 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I mean, I piss and moan at Eric all the time. Sure I realize hes just the messenger, but it is his job to hand our criticism off to people whose job it is, right? And yes, I primarily blame him for patently ignoring or refusing to reply to any criticism.

Look at the crap we've been screaming since 5.0. "We dont want more rng!" And what are they doing with 6.0? Layered rng. So did they misunderstand our complaint because musco didnt properly pass the word along or do they just not care what we want?
At this point, I think it's most likely they just don't care what we want.

Mind you, when I say "they," I mean whoever has the final say, which could be above the producer title. I don't mean Eric Musco or Daniel Steed or Charles Boyd, or any other visible name past or present that potentially has very limited power when it comes to gameplay direction. They could care greatly, but be unable to do much.

I mean, I don't know if I'm allowed to bring it up here, but that article by Jason Shreier about Anthem's development didn't paint a rosy picture of management at Bioware (granted, that was more so another Bioware studio, not this one, but there is probably overlap). As much as I'd like to blame EA like some sort of oppressor overlord, it seems Bioware's studios are good enough at creating their own share of problems to combine with, and worsen, whatever oppressor overlord stuff EA is foisting on them. Then again, at this point, the transition may be thorough enough that there's not much difference between the two companies.

Bottom line, after today's post, I just don't really believe they (veto people) care what we want. I think they (veto people) want what they want and the job of the people underneath is to figure out how to make it palatable enough that we'll accept it. That's my impression. I mean, think about it, a Kai Zykken rng vendor? That just screams "make rng palatable somehow" to me. (I realize it could also just be an innocent, random idea, but if we start with the premise that the veto people don't care, it would make sense as a way to try to humanize their goofy system.)

They are sitting there, reinventing the wheel on gear like this is some new, creative process, repeating the same mistakes and walking back in half measures. IMO, it has all the signs of "our hands are tied."

That or they are just arrogant and prideful about it, which is possible (people can become very insulated and isolated from feedback, and pat each other on the back). But if that were the case, you'd think 5.0 would have given them some humility by now.
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OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
09.04.2019 , 09:32 PM | #103
IMO .. so much of the conjecture that is presented as fact and reason for retribution.. Good grief.

To Trixx: I understand that you're upset over the name issue. I also understand that the PvP realm in general is messed up. I'm not sure how to properly address either one. That said... someone in this thread did suggest that if you're going to stay... then do so. If your choice is to leave .. then do so. Yet, if there is an axe to grind … then frankly do so in the proper fashion. Yeah .. I know .. I even get a bit ruffled around the tail feathers from time to time. But don't blame others for the decision.

As for the game and the representatives that post on the forum board... I can ALMOST guarantee that they are all on payroll. That immediately means that each of them answer to someone else. I can almost GUESS that most of those at the top of the food chain are EA. Keep in mind that EA did not make most of their money off of MMO games. I'd dare say that a sizeable portion of their profits came from games that were what we use to call "One and Done" releases. Those games would probably be games like Madden Football … etc. It's no secret to most of us here that MMO's are anything BUT one and done ! Yet … EA sees things a bit different. IMO... there's the real issue.

At any rate. Me personally:

I just hope that the story line is not so restrictive that most of the companions are bricked again … (like JUS). Other wise whomever started calling that part of SWTOR play Barbie dolls has pretty well nailed that part.

I just hope that obtaining gear is better than where we are with Ossus. Good grief.. I've got 3 characters now that have everything on the left side (not weapons) .. just the left side. And you guessed it.. after 9 straight weeks of completing weeklies I have received the exact same piece: ear, relic or implant. Frankly I've not ran most of my characters grinding on Ossus for that very reason. I actually generated a new Smuggler when the double XP started... and I've been on that ever since. I'm now finishing up the last of KotET this week. I've even started tier 2 already. Regardless of what system they call it... I hope it's either fixed or replaced with some system that is more consistent and reliable.

I hope that there are a number of things that have been discussed that are being resolved.. including PvP for those who enjoy it.

So here is my sincere post.. hoping that someone .. whoever really is making the call. Please watch. Please listen. And from time to time let us know what's on the drawing board for the future.

I know.. not everyone is receptive even to news of changes being made or even when BW does take action (seems like I remember something about that in the past).

At any rate: there are some tough calls to make. And not everything will show up by the end of October. Some things will no doubt come a little later (though hopefully by mid December).

Just my $.02 for the evening !
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DarthSpuds's Avatar


DarthSpuds
09.05.2019 , 02:55 AM | #104
I haven't played PTS so my reaction here is based entirely on what I have read on the PTS subforum.

More Grind?
Really?
This is what the game needs is it?

I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor!
Far too many game companies think "more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction" - it doesn't.

Making us put in more effort for the same, or even less, rewards will increase player engagement for some players, but will likely increase player dissatisfaction for a whole lot more.

From my experience of this game, along with that of the numerous SWTOR friends I have lost over the years, my very, very well informed opinion is that we need LESS grind and a whole lot LESS RNG.

RNG is lazy,
RNG is cheap,
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.

The problem with Game Devs and RNG is none of them ever have to experience it. In their Dev Mode testing they can just get whatever gear they want and then say "oh look, nice and shiny, works well, people will LOVE this", but the reality players experience is "oh look, the 30th time I've got this PoS item I can't use, I HATE THIS".

Any Game Dev / Producer proposing more RNG should just be fired, the whole industry will benefit from it.

To ALL Devs, ask yourself this: "Would you still show up to work if at the end of the month your remuneration was randomised, with the higher probability being that what you get paid is something you can't ever use and will have to spend time and money converting to something you can use?"

Now be honest: no you wouldn't. So for %$£&^ sake, stop expecting us to like it!

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TonyTricicolo's Avatar


TonyTricicolo
09.05.2019 , 06:39 AM | #105
(Behind the scenes) "EA has taken away all our control over our property forcing us to institute gambling packs and Rng. We lost most of our staff. We have a small budget. We can't provide what our players want. We know they hate our decisions but let's keep quiet and pretend nothing is wrong. Don't let up like anything is off. Continue to pretend to support the EA machine. Try to give a morsel of content and pray the community don't get wise and revolt." Deep down I know the devs are in a **** situation and just barely weaseling by. I feel for them, I wouldn't want EA overlord bean counters hovering over my shoulders. I'm sure the human in them can relate but they're in such an awkward position. At the end of the day no one wants to lose their job, Must be very stressful working there. To put on the fake face and smile everyday. It must be slowly eating their soul.
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xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
09.05.2019 , 07:14 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
I haven't played PTS so my reaction here is based entirely on what I have read on the PTS subforum.

More Grind?
Really?
This is what the game needs is it?

I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor!
It's why I don't play EQ2 much any more after solidly playing it from 2004 - 2014.
I walk around for nostalgia and that's about it. I remember the day I quit, I was flying my dragon across a couple of floating islands after completing Eidelon and had just found out that I needed 600 crit to even enter the next zone to advance, and the reason to enter that next area was to ... get better gear.

What is it about MMOs that leave their content developers so absurdly creatively bankrupt that the gear chase is the primary driver of the game? Cannot a group of developers sit around a table for half a day drinking coffee and downing pizza and debate okay, what else besides extending the gear grind can we create as the primary driver in the game?
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.05.2019 , 08:50 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor!
Far too many game companies think "more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction" - it doesn't.
Man, this is the realest thing said in this thread.

The only thing that has pushed me off the game has been excessive gear grinds/pointless punishment of alts. BW is churning out little to no content, and instead spending their time making chutes and ladders in a gear system that is beyond frustrating. A game simply won't hold players attention by adding new gear grinds with little to no new content to grind through.

I suppose on paper it sounds good, right? "Hey, let's make endless grinds so the players stay engaged indefinitely!" It's been proven by numbers on this game people do not react well to this! Now, maybe they have no other options. Maybe they have such little funds they cannot create new content.

But if this is the case, how are they able to completely gut a system and replace it with a totally different system? Surely this takes tons of time to implement and code, create?

Anyway. Rolodome is right, it's at a point where you got to accept that they just don't care. If they cared, they wouldn't keep shoveling futless gear grinds down the throats of the playerbase.
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’d still like to know how you find someone’s legacy name if they don’t display it?
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Uh you don't know it because it is a secret knowledge of ranked players who use it to see the real appearance of other players through the force.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.05.2019 , 08:59 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
To ALL Devs, ask yourself this: Would you still show up to work if at the end of the month your remuneration was randomised, with the higher probability being that what you get paid is something you can't ever use and will have to spend time and money converting to something you can use?

Now be honest: no you wouldn't. So for %$£&^ sake, stop expecting us to like it!
Ironically, there are markets where they are trying to incorporate RNG to paychecks!

I know of a field where people get paid according to how many minutes are logged on the phone... Now some days, this can be 400 minutes, while others on a slow day might be 50 minutes.

Imagine, not knowing how much you are going to get paid by the day, due to factors totally outside your control, yet you are stuck there for 8-9 hours a day still?

Companies are doing this! Anyway, it creates tons of resentment, and people can't really solidly plan a budget if they can't rely on their paychecks being consistent. It's *********** wrong.

This is a game, but still the same idea goes into it... No one wants to spend their time without knowing that time will be properly compensated when it comes to working for something.
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’d still like to know how you find someone’s legacy name if they don’t display it?
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Uh you don't know it because it is a secret knowledge of ranked players who use it to see the real appearance of other players through the force.

kodrac's Avatar


kodrac
09.05.2019 , 09:58 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Imagine, not knowing how much you are going to get paid by the day, due to factors totally outside your control, yet you are stuck there for 8-9 hours a day still?
Commissioned sales. I did this for a few years. Truly awful. The randomly changing commission rates, the sales manager breathing down your neck to get blood from a turnip, the arbitrary exceptions as to why you don't get your commission this week... Should be illegal. Chew you up and spit you out.

Back on topic:
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Look at the crap we've been screaming since 5.0. "We dont want more rng!" And what are they doing with 6.0? Layered rng. So did they misunderstand our complaint because musco didnt properly pass the word along or do they just not care what we want?
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Anyway. Rolodome is right, it's at a point where you got to accept that they just don't care. If they cared, they wouldn't keep shoveling futless gear grinds down the throats of the playerbase.
Musco has little reason to care since his superiors don't care. It's an organizational cultural. They're going to push this on us whether we like it or not. They're probably betting on the fact that it's been 2+ years since 5.0 and no one will remember, or still be around since, that dumpster fire.
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
I’d find it hard to believe this sort of thing goes on in the preferential treatment forum.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
or Kodrac, for saying everything I want to say, but he takes one for team and gets a warning.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
09.05.2019 , 10:14 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by kodrac View Post
Musco has little reason to care since his superiors don't care. It's an organizational cultural. They're going to push this on us whether we like it or not. They're probably betting on the fact that it's been 2+ years since 5.0 and no one will remember, or still be around since, that dumpster fire.
I never ceases to amuse me how many people seem to think that a few people on the forums complaining about something in SWTOR, should be the only determining factor in what BW does.
First of all, not everyone complains about RNG. (I don't)
Secondly, BW has more than just the forums to base their decisions on. They have the metrics about who actually does what in the game, what seems to bring in or retain subs, what is actually profitable, etc, etc.
And, like it or not, BW does have to make money. All those employees must be paid, plus all the other expenses (keeping the lights on). It's always easy to call BW greedy or whatever, but would you keep working at McD's if they cut all their prices - to satisfy those who complain about the price of a Big Mac - and then said they were going to cut your pay as well?
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