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All the systems for 6.0 seem unappealing. Bioware you need to pay attention.


TrixxieTriss

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I mean, I piss and moan at Eric all the time. Sure I realize hes just the messenger, but it is his job to hand our criticism off to people whose job it is, right? And yes, I primarily blame him for patently ignoring or refusing to reply to any criticism.

 

Look at the crap we've been screaming since 5.0. "We dont want more rng!" And what are they doing with 6.0? Layered rng. So did they misunderstand our complaint because musco didnt properly pass the word along or do they just not care what we want?

 

Right, that's what we always theorized in the past, that maybe the feedback off the forums never was getting passed up to the devs/game designers. How it could go on for so long though shows other layers of ineptness, then.

 

It just seems to me for far too long the fox was guarding the hen house, basically people were not being held accountable and too much free reign was given by EA to BW. My theory anyway.

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I mean, I piss and moan at Eric all the time. Sure I realize hes just the messenger, but it is his job to hand our criticism off to people whose job it is, right? And yes, I primarily blame him for patently ignoring or refusing to reply to any criticism.

 

Look at the crap we've been screaming since 5.0. "We dont want more rng!" And what are they doing with 6.0? Layered rng. So did they misunderstand our complaint because musco didnt properly pass the word along or do they just not care what we want?

At this point, I think it's most likely they just don't care what we want.

 

Mind you, when I say "they," I mean whoever has the final say, which could be above the producer title. I don't mean Eric Musco or Daniel Steed or Charles Boyd, or any other visible name past or present that potentially has very limited power when it comes to gameplay direction. They could care greatly, but be unable to do much.

 

I mean, I don't know if I'm allowed to bring it up here, but that article by Jason Shreier about Anthem's development didn't paint a rosy picture of management at Bioware (granted, that was more so another Bioware studio, not this one, but there is probably overlap). As much as I'd like to blame EA like some sort of oppressor overlord, it seems Bioware's studios are good enough at creating their own share of problems to combine with, and worsen, whatever oppressor overlord stuff EA is foisting on them. Then again, at this point, the transition may be thorough enough that there's not much difference between the two companies.

 

Bottom line, after today's post, I just don't really believe they (veto people) care what we want. I think they (veto people) want what they want and the job of the people underneath is to figure out how to make it palatable enough that we'll accept it. That's my impression. I mean, think about it, a Kai Zykken rng vendor? That just screams "make rng palatable somehow" to me. (I realize it could also just be an innocent, random idea, but if we start with the premise that the veto people don't care, it would make sense as a way to try to humanize their goofy system.)

 

They are sitting there, reinventing the wheel on gear like this is some new, creative process, repeating the same mistakes and walking back in half measures. IMO, it has all the signs of "our hands are tied."

 

That or they are just arrogant and prideful about it, which is possible (people can become very insulated and isolated from feedback, and pat each other on the back). But if that were the case, you'd think 5.0 would have given them some humility by now.

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IMO .. so much of the conjecture that is presented as fact and reason for retribution.. Good grief.

 

To Trixx: I understand that you're upset over the name issue. I also understand that the PvP realm in general is messed up. I'm not sure how to properly address either one. That said... someone in this thread did suggest that if you're going to stay... then do so. If your choice is to leave .. then do so. Yet, if there is an axe to grind … then frankly do so in the proper fashion. Yeah .. I know .. I even get a bit ruffled around the tail feathers from time to time. But don't blame others for the decision.

 

As for the game and the representatives that post on the forum board... I can ALMOST guarantee that they are all on payroll. That immediately means that each of them answer to someone else. I can almost GUESS that most of those at the top of the food chain are EA. Keep in mind that EA did not make most of their money off of MMO games. I'd dare say that a sizeable portion of their profits came from games that were what we use to call "One and Done" releases. Those games would probably be games like Madden Football … etc. It's no secret to most of us here that MMO's are anything BUT one and done ! Yet … EA sees things a bit different. IMO... there's the real issue.

 

At any rate. Me personally:

 

I just hope that the story line is not so restrictive that most of the companions are bricked again … (like JUS). Other wise whomever started calling that part of SWTOR play Barbie dolls has pretty well nailed that part.

 

I just hope that obtaining gear is better than where we are with Ossus. Good grief.. I've got 3 characters now that have everything on the left side (not weapons) .. just the left side. And you guessed it.. after 9 straight weeks of completing weeklies I have received the exact same piece: ear, relic or implant. Frankly I've not ran most of my characters grinding on Ossus for that very reason. I actually generated a new Smuggler when the double XP started... and I've been on that ever since. I'm now finishing up the last of KotET this week. I've even started tier 2 already. Regardless of what system they call it... I hope it's either fixed or replaced with some system that is more consistent and reliable.

 

I hope that there are a number of things that have been discussed that are being resolved.. including PvP for those who enjoy it.

 

So here is my sincere post.. hoping that someone .. whoever really is making the call. Please watch. Please listen. And from time to time let us know what's on the drawing board for the future.

 

I know.. not everyone is receptive even to news of changes being made or even when BW does take action (seems like I remember something about that in the past).

 

At any rate: there are some tough calls to make. And not everything will show up by the end of October. Some things will no doubt come a little later (though hopefully by mid December).

 

Just my $.02 for the evening !

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I haven't played PTS so my reaction here is based entirely on what I have read on the PTS subforum.

 

More Grind?

Really?

This is what the game needs is it?

 

I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor!

Far too many game companies think "more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction" - it doesn't.

 

Making us put in more effort for the same, or even less, rewards will increase player engagement for some players, but will likely increase player dissatisfaction for a whole lot more.

 

From my experience of this game, along with that of the numerous SWTOR friends I have lost over the years, my very, very well informed opinion is that we need LESS grind and a whole lot LESS RNG.

 

RNG is lazy,

RNG is cheap,

RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.

 

The problem with Game Devs and RNG is none of them ever have to experience it. In their Dev Mode testing they can just get whatever gear they want and then say "oh look, nice and shiny, works well, people will LOVE this", but the reality players experience is "oh look, the 30th time I've got this PoS item I can't use, I HATE THIS".

 

Any Game Dev / Producer proposing more RNG should just be fired, the whole industry will benefit from it.

 

To ALL Devs, ask yourself this: "Would you still show up to work if at the end of the month your remuneration was randomised, with the higher probability being that what you get paid is something you can't ever use and will have to spend time and money converting to something you can use?"

 

Now be honest: no you wouldn't. So for %$£&^ sake, stop expecting us to like it!

 

All The Best

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(Behind the scenes) "EA has taken away all our control over our property forcing us to institute gambling packs and Rng. We lost most of our staff. We have a small budget. We can't provide what our players want. We know they hate our decisions but let's keep quiet and pretend nothing is wrong. Don't let up like anything is off. Continue to pretend to support the EA machine. Try to give a morsel of content and pray the community don't get wise and revolt." Deep down I know the devs are in a **** situation and just barely weaseling by. I feel for them, I wouldn't want EA overlord bean counters hovering over my shoulders. I'm sure the human in them can relate but they're in such an awkward position. At the end of the day no one wants to lose their job, Must be very stressful working there. To put on the fake face and smile everyday. It must be slowly eating their soul.
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I haven't played PTS so my reaction here is based entirely on what I have read on the PTS subforum.

 

More Grind?

Really?

This is what the game needs is it?

 

I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor!

 

It's why I don't play EQ2 much any more after solidly playing it from 2004 - 2014.

I walk around for nostalgia and that's about it. I remember the day I quit, I was flying my dragon across a couple of floating islands after completing Eidelon and had just found out that I needed 600 crit to even enter the next zone to advance, and the reason to enter that next area was to ... get better gear.

 

What is it about MMOs that leave their content developers so absurdly creatively bankrupt that the gear chase is the primary driver of the game? Cannot a group of developers sit around a table for half a day drinking coffee and downing pizza and debate okay, what else besides extending the gear grind can we create as the primary driver in the game?

Edited by xordevoreaux
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I've lost more SWTOR friends to excessive grind than to any other factor!

Far too many game companies think "more grind = more player engagement = more player satisfaction" - it doesn't.

 

Man, this is the realest thing said in this thread.

 

The only thing that has pushed me off the game has been excessive gear grinds/pointless punishment of alts. BW is churning out little to no content, and instead spending their time making chutes and ladders in a gear system that is beyond frustrating. A game simply won't hold players attention by adding new gear grinds with little to no new content to grind through.

 

I suppose on paper it sounds good, right? "Hey, let's make endless grinds so the players stay engaged indefinitely!" It's been proven by numbers on this game people do not react well to this! Now, maybe they have no other options. Maybe they have such little funds they cannot create new content.

 

But if this is the case, how are they able to completely gut a system and replace it with a totally different system? Surely this takes tons of time to implement and code, create?

 

Anyway. Rolodome is right, it's at a point where you got to accept that they just don't care. If they cared, they wouldn't keep shoveling futless gear grinds down the throats of the playerbase.

Edited by Lhancelot
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To ALL Devs, ask yourself this: Would you still show up to work if at the end of the month your remuneration was randomised, with the higher probability being that what you get paid is something you can't ever use and will have to spend time and money converting to something you can use?

 

Now be honest: no you wouldn't. So for %$£&^ sake, stop expecting us to like it!

 

Ironically, there are markets where they are trying to incorporate RNG to paychecks!

 

I know of a field where people get paid according to how many minutes are logged on the phone... Now some days, this can be 400 minutes, while others on a slow day might be 50 minutes.

 

Imagine, not knowing how much you are going to get paid by the day, due to factors totally outside your control, yet you are stuck there for 8-9 hours a day still?

 

Companies are doing this! Anyway, it creates tons of resentment, and people can't really solidly plan a budget if they can't rely on their paychecks being consistent. It's *********** wrong.

 

This is a game, but still the same idea goes into it... No one wants to spend their time without knowing that time will be properly compensated when it comes to working for something.

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Imagine, not knowing how much you are going to get paid by the day, due to factors totally outside your control, yet you are stuck there for 8-9 hours a day still?

 

Commissioned sales. I did this for a few years. Truly awful. The randomly changing commission rates, the sales manager breathing down your neck to get blood from a turnip, the arbitrary exceptions as to why you don't get your commission this week... Should be illegal. Chew you up and spit you out.

 

Back on topic:

Look at the crap we've been screaming since 5.0. "We dont want more rng!" And what are they doing with 6.0? Layered rng. So did they misunderstand our complaint because musco didnt properly pass the word along or do they just not care what we want?

Anyway. Rolodome is right, it's at a point where you got to accept that they just don't care. If they cared, they wouldn't keep shoveling futless gear grinds down the throats of the playerbase.

 

Musco has little reason to care since his superiors don't care. It's an organizational cultural. They're going to push this on us whether we like it or not. They're probably betting on the fact that it's been 2+ years since 5.0 and no one will remember, or still be around since, that dumpster fire.

Edited by kodrac
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Musco has little reason to care since his superiors don't care. It's an organizational cultural. They're going to push this on us whether we like it or not. They're probably betting on the fact that it's been 2+ years since 5.0 and no one will remember, or still be around since, that dumpster fire.

I never ceases to amuse me how many people seem to think that a few people on the forums complaining about something in SWTOR, should be the only determining factor in what BW does.

First of all, not everyone complains about RNG. (I don't)

Secondly, BW has more than just the forums to base their decisions on. They have the metrics about who actually does what in the game, what seems to bring in or retain subs, what is actually profitable, etc, etc.

And, like it or not, BW does have to make money. All those employees must be paid, plus all the other expenses (keeping the lights on). It's always easy to call BW greedy or whatever, but would you keep working at McD's if they cut all their prices - to satisfy those who complain about the price of a Big Mac - and then said they were going to cut your pay as well?

Edited by JediQuaker
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I never ceases to amuse me how many people seem to think that a few people on the forums complaining about something in SWTOR, should be the only determining factor in what BW does.

 

Is that even remotely close to what I said? It never ceases to amuse me how some people can be purposefully obtuse.

Edited by kodrac
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Is that even remotely close to what I said? It never ceases to amuse me how some people can be purposefully obtuse.

They're probably betting on the fact that it's been 2+ years since 5.0 and no one will remember, or still be around since, that dumpster fire.

Yes, that is remotely like what you said. You are basically agreeing with the "RNG bad" posts of a few users, and calling 5.0 a "dumpster fire", without in any way knowing whether or not 5.0 had a net positive affect on the subscription rate, etc.

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IMHO what is going to kill this system beyond the RNG is how complicated and confusing it is. They're expecting people who have previously been able to easily get gear tailored to their spec to now wade through this long, complicated list of armors, tacticals and amplifiers and figure out what they need. IMHO there's a lot of potential there for players to give up or wait until the influencers/content creators come up with "gear for dummies" posts to figure it all out.

 

Plus the gear set bonuses dropping off at 75, which is going to upset a lot of people that their gear suddenly doesn't work the same. They're giving people lots of reasons to want to keep their characters below level 75.

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Yes, that is remotely like what you said. You are basically agreeing with the "RNG bad" posts of a few users, and calling 5.0 a "dumpster fire", without in any way knowing whether or not 5.0 had a net positive affect on the subscription rate, etc.

 

No, what you magically comprehended is not even close to what I said. "Basically agreeing" meaning you want to play dumb and put words in my mouth. I called 5.0 a dumpster fire because it was. You were here, you know it was, but If you want to try to attempt revisionist history to be "different", by all means try. I know you like being obtuse on purpose to get a rise out of people on these forums but damn, man. If it didn't have a net effect on subscriptions then why did they scramble to send out a survey about it within days of its release and the forum uproar? Why did Ben make weekly streams to say what they're changing now and in a few weeks? The one time in the lifetime of this game. Derp. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Now let's look at something I did say about forum posts. In this thread. A couple pages back that you obviously skipped over.

 

Well, yeah, on a small scale, one gripe isn't going to make anything change and it seems silly when they stomp off like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum. But when you have a whole bunch of people venting in the same direction and BW ignores it all it's quite understandable when they vent and quit. Then Musco or Keith will eventually show up and say "What? Oh you mean you didn't like that? OK we'll be more communicative in the future." Rinse. Repeat.

 

Now tell me I think a few forum posters have any impact. Obviously I've already acknowledged forum posters, few or otherwise, have no impact. Especially when I later agreed that they don't care in the very post you quoted. Read the whole thread and try to keep up.

Edited by kodrac
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Yes, that is remotely like what you said. You are basically agreeing with the "RNG bad" posts of a few users, and calling 5.0 a "dumpster fire", without in any way knowing whether or not 5.0 had a net positive affect on the subscription rate, etc.

Dude, we know 5.0 had a net negative impact. The game shrunk down to 5 servers, rather than growing or staying at a steady enough rate to justify keeping the amount open that there were at the time. They made significant changes after the launch of 5.0 in acknowledgement of the issues people were having.

 

And they have pretty much admitted themselves that 5.0's gearing system was a dumpster fire. Just not in those words because they're supposed to be more professional-sounding than that and are not supposed to admit much fault.

 

That's why the RNG-heaviness of what 6.0 looks like so far is so mind-boggling. It wasn't just a minority being upset, which can happen with games. If anything, the minority are the ones who were completely content with the system.

 

Go look at the PTS feedback thread. It's not "a few users" decrying RNG. It's a near-unified force of them. It's quite a sight to see. Usually there's a lot more disagreement about changes in a game.

Edited by Rolodome
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Is that even remotely close to what I said? It never ceases to amuse me how some people can be purposefully obtuse.

 

People seem to like to create their own narrative for what others write on the forums. Not sure if it's failure to comprehend, or they just read 5 words of the post and then jump to conclusions as to what you wrote.

 

I am pretty sure the "few" people who indicate their displeasure with RNG on the forums are probably more of an accurate representation of the population's opinion regarding RNG than people like him who "don't complain" about RNG.

 

Does this mean he hates RNG but just keeps it to himself, or does he enjoy it and simply doesn't tout it as wonderful as he really believes it is? Either way who cares.

 

All we got to do is look at the condition of the game after 5.0, and after every update that was met with displeasure we can see population drop-offs. This wasn't coincidence.

 

We used to theorize that BW was actually trying to ruin the game, I mean it has to be purposeful to ignore all critical feedback and continue doing what seems to be hurting the game's population, right?

 

How else can it be explained where you have extremely intelligent game developers seemingly making awful game design decisions over and over, and over?

 

Either it's purposeful, or they really ignore all feedback and only confer within their own echo chamber that seems to be in love with RNG, punishing alts, heavy gear grinds, keeping the same FOTM classes for years on end and the CM.

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I never ceases to amuse me how many people seem to think that a few people on the forums complaining about something in SWTOR, should be the only determining factor in what BW does.

First of all, not everyone complains about RNG. (I don't)

Secondly, BW has more than just the forums to base their decisions on. They have the metrics about who actually does what in the game, what seems to bring in or retain subs, what is actually profitable, etc, etc.

And, like it or not, BW does have to make money. All those employees must be paid, plus all the other expenses (keeping the lights on). It's always easy to call BW greedy or whatever, but would you keep working at McD's if they cut all their prices - to satisfy those who complain about the price of a Big Mac - and then said they were going to cut your pay as well?

 

I see just as many in game who absolute hated 5.0 as I do on the forums as well as on reddit etc.... RNG is pretty universally hated man. Players can tell when the game has a drop off in population as well. Don't need metrics to see there's less players logging in.

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I...tend to agree with JQ [gah] about the perception on here that the forum is representative of the playerbase. We have little evidence to back that idea up, it's mainly just the hope that we matter connected to a decreasing population and word of mouth. The actual reason might be entirely different, but if it's some unknown unknown, that makes us completely irrelevant.

 

What I want to draw attention to, however, is this bit:

 

And, like it or not, BW does have to make money. All those employees must be paid, plus all the other expenses (keeping the lights on). It's always easy to call BW greedy or whatever, but would you keep working at McD's if they cut all their prices - to satisfy those who complain about the price of a Big Mac - and then said they were going to cut your pay as well?

 

This is a non-sequitur. BW pushing 6.0 out and ignoring people who don't want RNG has nothing to do with them making money, unless you think lootboxes are the only way they make money, and even if that were true , the problem is more than RNG lootboxes, it's RNG vendors. That is actually worse than 5.0, and afaik unprecedented. And it doesn't have an effect on BW getting a payday except in terms of an endless grind. But most players aren't going to grind endlessly. Yes, that's an assumption, but it's also logical compared to trends in lots of other games. If you do nothing but RNG grind, you'll lose players.

 

So while I agree in part with JQ - and I also don't mind RNG because it doesn't affect me as much as an end-game minmaxer], I personally don't think that attitude is representative of the majority of players. JQ isn't claiming he is, of course, just critiquing the idea that you guys aren't either, but this begs the question: what do the majority of players want? And if you set up a PTS for players on the forum to give feedback, and then ignore that feedback....why set up PTS and ask for feedback in the first place?

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And if you set up a PTS for players on the forum to give feedback, and then ignore that feedback....why set up PTS and ask for feedback in the first place?

 

This is a great question. Someone ought to pose this at Keith and Eric in their next Q&A streaming event.

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This is a great question. Someone ought to pose this at Keith and Eric in their next Q&A streaming event.

 

I mean, it's not like they would tell us why they choose to ignore us... just look at the 5.10 gear debacle. I remember reading on PTS forim - is the slot locking a bug; we hate it. What do they do? Not answer the question and ignore the fact we hated it until after it was live. Obviously then, they had no intention of considering making 5.10 gear non-slot locked, and to avert the inevitable outcry, just ignored the problem and hopefully it would go away.

 

And what depresses me is that it mostly has, sure they finally admitted it was on purpose, but the outcry wasnt really all that loud.

 

I admit, the 5.10 gear issue triggered something for me, and not slot locking the gear wouldnt have solved my problems with it. That said, it is a perfect example of how they handle decision making.

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This is a great question. Someone ought to pose this at Keith and Eric in their next Q&A streaming event.

 

Leaving aside the irony of them simply choosing to ignore the question altogether, it's an easy evasion. They would say that they paid very close attention to feedback and could give plenty of examples from the PTS. The question would have to be rewritten to be something like 'if you set up a PTS for players to give feedback, and if most players in PTS complained about the RNG, why set up PTS to ask for feedback in the first place?"

 

But even there I think it would be easy to get around that. They could say that when they set up PTS they asked players specific questions that they wanted answers for, and that they aren't interested in opinions that extend beyond those questions. If I were them, I wouldn't try to defend RNG at all, I'd make a silly, but contextually reasonable-sounding comparison like "suppose players during the testing had told us they didn't want a brand-new planet in the expansion. Should we then scrap Mek-Sha? But if we did, it would delay the expansion because so much of the gameplay we DO need to be tested depends on the new Mek-Sha area, and at Bioware we're committed to keeping our promise to players to deliver the highest quality gaming experience within the timeframe we set up."

 

You won't win against the PR machine, Lhance. The only question I could see that might give them pause is taking a line from this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968034

 

"Why do you make changes to gearing that players never asked for? Why does BW try to fix areas of the game that weren't broken, while largely ignoring areas that were broken, like engine bugs?"

 

But again, I think they would have an answer prepared. After all, people DID complain about the emphasis going off alt gearing, and in PTS Musco has continually emphasized that these changes are in effect to make it easier for gearing alts.

 

The problem with asking questions in this format is that players want to sit BW down and ask an interview style hardball Q&A where they finally get to the bottom of everything. No company, politician or public figure steps into that situation willingly.

Edited by Ardrossan
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I...tend to agree with JQ [gah] about the perception on here that the forum is representative of the playerbase. We have little evidence to back that idea up, it's mainly just the hope that we matter connected to a decreasing population and word of mouth. The actual reason might be entirely different, but if it's some unknown unknown, that makes us completely irrelevant.

 

He can go on PTS then. Go to the fleet, or Odessen. Ask in general chat what people think about the new system. Only a fraction of people in the PTS bother giving feedback here.

 

Of course he can also dismiss the PTS population as "not representative" just as easily and keep digging his head deeper and deeper into the ground because the president of EA didn't come out and flatly state that 5.0 damaged the game, even though all indirect evidence suggests that it did. The fact that they eventually did away with that system for all intents and purposes and relegated it to a supplementary role should be evidence enough, but people will continue to confuse critical thinking with being willfully obtuse.

 

Remember when SWTOR used to feature in quarterly earnings calls? Of course, that it no longer does shouldn't be taken as evidence that the game isn't doing so hot, either. Nor the ever decreasing server count. Nor the difficulty to find an ops pug outside of prime time. Certainly not the constant cries for people to queue solo ranked. No, no. Everything's fine and nothing's representative because I'm a free thinker and you're all bandwagoneers.

 

The fact of the matter is that people have historically been more or less okay with a degree of grind to acquire stuff. Some people are fine with a RNG-based approach, obviously copied and adapted from looter-shooters. But what you currently have is a badly designed RNG layer *on top of* a grind of content that is 8 years old.

 

As a result of EA executive fiat, misinterpretation of "metrics" or a misplaced desire to chase the latest fad in gaming, they are about to make a mistake. No hysterics, just pointing out what should be obvious. But you'll always find a contrarian because this is the internet.

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At this point we can kvetch and speculate until the nerf calves come home.

 

I'm not thrilled with them engaging in a veritable virtual vomiting of useless gear either, which then encourages you to go to a weekend-only RNG vendor in the form of Kai Zykken. But...

 

Hey folks,

 

just a quick note. We hear your concerns about not being able to go for specific loot. We already have a number of potential changes in motion they just weren't ready for this patch. I will share more details when I have them, but we do hear your feedback. Keep it coming.

 

-eric

 

We can dissect all their past bad decisions and pretend we know the predictive value of doing so, but I'm content to at least wait and see what those "potential changes" are before judging.

 

That is the sort of the point of a PTS n'est-ce pas?

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I'm under no illusions that this will stop the kvetching.

 

P.P.S. If they do stick to the pure RNG formula, to help promote it -- they should have all the bartenders at the NYC Cantina dress up as Kai and serve random drinks.

Edited by Jdast
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The devs are asking for your feedback on the PTS, why not test it yourself and provide the much-needed feedback? If you watched any of the BW's streams, they said that you will not win the same piece twice, so the RNG factor won't be quite as bad as 5.0, nor as frustrating as Ossus "win-three-ephemeral-mending-relics-in-a-row" RNG. There's also supposed to be vendors you can buy gear from, but I guess those aren't available right now because I haven't seen them on the PTS (I've only been on twice in 2.0 and have been exploring Onderon).

 

Anyway, I find it incredibly annoying when someone vocally expresses their opinion about something they never experienced.

 

Good luck Trixxie. Can I has your stuff? Personally, I would have unsubscribed when the APAC servers went away.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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