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Scaling Tech in Group Content Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Scaling Tech in Group Content Feedback
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
07.31.2019 , 08:23 AM | #1 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey folks,

Let's talk about the next thing we are introducing to PTS that we would like some testing on, new scaling tech which we are applying to group content in SWTOR. To test this new scaling, we recommend that you test the Flashpoint Hammer Station or one of two Operations; Karagga's Palace or Eternity Vault.

The idea behind this scaling tech is that we are trying to avoid some of the pitfalls from previous expansions. By re-leveling them to max level, we effectively have to rebalance them all over again. This creates some obvious issues where FPs and Ops can quickly become too easy, or too hard. The goal of applying this scaling tech is that it will allow us to leverage the original balance that for this content.

Take a spin through this content and if you want to really see how it plays, compare it on PTS to other FPs and Ops. Let us know what you think.
  • Is it too easy?
  • Is it too hard?
  • Do you like this style of balance?
Thanks all.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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ImNotOnABoat's Avatar


ImNotOnABoat
07.31.2019 , 01:59 PM | #2
Aside from the odd bug or two (such as the cool down issue) we also are nerfed due to the class buffs, datacron buffs, and missing companion buffs (my estimates is that this can contribute to about 10% dps total). However, is this new 306 gear meant as story mode or nightmare mode rated gear? Depending on the two answers, two entirely different results are anticipated on how hard/easy the operation feels.

Also is there a possibility of getting more than one tier in future pts phases?
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dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
07.31.2019 , 02:39 PM | #3
can we get an idea of how you are scaling? is it just a 25% nerf to all damage and tank attributes or 10% nerf to damage output from players? we could provide time to kill differences between live and pts to give you an idea maybe...

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
07.31.2019 , 04:10 PM | #4
IF this scaling works out, does this mean we could finally see Collicoid Wargames added back into the Flashpoint rotation?

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
07.31.2019 , 04:40 PM | #5
Like dipstick said, is this like level-sync for operations/flashpoints? Are characters are "nerfed" down to an appropriate level relative to the chronologic age of the operation? Is this nerf based on the recognition that SM EV/KP were originally designed for level 50 players in rating 136 gear, but SM GOTM was designed for level 70 players in rating 236 gear? Is the concern that a fresh level 50 in the current game, or future 6.0 game, will have too hard of a time in the "newer" ops (say, Ravagers onward) if you simply scale the op to 75 and adjust Bolster accordingly, compared to ops originally designed for fresh 50s?

Or, is it because you Developers don't like the idea of giving the same rewards for SM GOTM, or the new Dxun operation, to level 75s as they would earn from SM EV/KP? And you don't like giving the same rewards for, say Master Mode Hammer Station compared to, say, Master Mode Nathema Conspiracy?

EDIT: I mean, you singled out the most easily farmed MM FP and VM operations for a reason. If the truth is that the decision was made on both accounts (fresh 50s attempting newest ops AND farmability of old ops/fps), then just be honest with the players. It will help the feedback greatly.
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SimonKoehler's Avatar


SimonKoehler
07.31.2019 , 06:06 PM | #6
We just did Karagga's Palace HC and killed the 1. boss with three people and the the other four with 4 People.
The scaling is way to easy, you two shot some of the trash mobs.
Everyone had 306 ilvl, but still we did way to much damage and took nearly no damage.

robwettengel's Avatar


robwettengel
07.31.2019 , 06:41 PM | #7
Hammer Station is similarly way too easy. We burned through the droid and Kreshan before any adds showed up. Group was composed of 4 dps.

fushnchips's Avatar


fushnchips
07.31.2019 , 08:39 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Let's talk about the next thing we are introducing to PTS that we would like some testing on, new scaling tech which we are applying to group content in SWTOR. To test this new scaling, we recommend that you test the Flashpoint Hammer Station or one of two Operations; Karagga's Palace or Eternity Vault.

The idea behind this scaling tech is that we are trying to avoid some of the pitfalls from previous expansions. By re-leveling them to max level, we effectively have to rebalance them all over again. This creates some obvious issues where FPs and Ops can quickly become too easy, or too hard. The goal of applying this scaling tech is that it will allow us to leverage the original balance that for this content.

Take a spin through this content and if you want to really see how it plays, compare it on PTS to other FPs and Ops. Let us know what you think.
  • Is it too easy?
  • Is it too hard?
  • Do you like this style of balance?
Thanks all.

-eric
EV/KP HM was way to easy Eric and for KP HM we even went naked apart from the MH/OH.

Things I also noticed was I had issues with energy management on my sniper will have to check why that is but for now those 2 operations you asked us to test are way to easy an should be at a level of HM not SM.
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auroroavalor's Avatar


auroroavalor
08.01.2019 , 12:06 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

The idea behind this scaling tech is that we are trying to avoid some of the pitfalls from previous expansions. By re-leveling them to max level, we effectively have to rebalance them all over again. This creates some obvious issues where FPs and Ops can quickly become too easy, or too hard. The goal of applying this scaling tech is that it will allow us to leverage the original balance that for this content.
So there's a few things I'm curious about with this choice so bear with me.
  • Are you looking at rescaling all old content like this?
  • If so will this include SM/HM/NiM variations of operations?
  • Is the intention of adjusting the scaling of operations like this to make them more accessible to the community?
  • Are there concerns that level scaled content will stop feeling like end game content and more like legacy content?
  • How will this impact players who are not max level but higher level than the content is scaled to? (smaller stat pools and the like.)
  • Obviously there has been significant power/ability/mobility creep how will this be negated?
  • Does this mean the return of EV/KP NiM?
  • Will the down scaling of operations and flashpoints result in less XP and other rewards?
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fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
08.01.2019 , 05:43 AM | #10
As long as you promise a few things .......

- All operations will stay relevant (imo this is one of the biggest selling points from SWTOR)
- Don't use silly planet scaling .... that stuff is not close to harsh enough for operations
- Keep veteran mode a veteran mode (meaning the operations need to be relatively hard but not hardmare quality)
- Keep master mode a master mode


One remark though. Depending the person this is either a good thing or bad thing. Probably some people will reply this part with a get good remark. But currently, we are in the situation where we got a nice gear gap advantage which opens up master mode operations to more people.
Personally, I am good enough to clear a lot of master content at the intended gear ratings. However I'm not nearly skilled enough to clear them all.
With this current gear gap gradually the harder bosses are coming within my reach too. Scaling down will effectively cut off content to large groups of people.


Next to this. Scaling isn't a magical fix which will make balance perfect. You have seen yourself how hard it was and still is to maintain PvP bolster (naked bolster for example).
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