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Sith Juggernaut Feedback

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EricMusco's Avatar

07.23.2019 , 10:25 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

If you are looking to get started on PTS, please check the Welcome to Phase 1 post, here. Please use this thread to share your thoughts on the Juggernat tactical items and set bonuses after getting your hands on them on PTS.

Be sure to be as specific as possible in your feedback!

Eric Musco | Community Manager
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schinkar's Avatar

07.23.2019 , 03:48 PM | #2
Well, what I've noticed so far is that the tactical item that reduces cd of Slam in Vengeance when your DoT crits is a bit bugged - sometimes your cooldown disappears though it's still there.
God save the Covered Escape!

Delani's Avatar

07.23.2019 , 05:29 PM | #3
3 mad dash charges but the cooldown is increased to 10-15 seconds seconds would be a good tactical

NormericanEagle's Avatar

07.23.2019 , 08:24 PM | #4
Juggernaut (Vengeance) feedback after playing it in ops:
  • Cooldowns are buggy, sometimes the cooldown goes away at the right time but the ability is still unusable for a few more seconds, if I try to use it, it says it isn't ready yet.
  • Guardians seem to be taking far more damage, either mitigation was reduced by a lot or the bosses are unbalanced. Either way, I feel like it is currently takes far too much damage in PvE.
  • The new Warrior ability isn't very useful for DOT specs. Yes, for burst specs a 25% boost is nice, but on the DOT specs it doesn't buff some of the hard-hitting abilities and if used at full stacks, at least one is wasted on Sundering Assault.
  • The extra utility point should be used anywhere rather than just the first tier. As is, it really doesn't help at all and might as well not be there, at least for Juggernaut.
I'll probably do more testing later but that's my opinions so far.

Delani's Avatar

07.23.2019 , 11:24 PM | #5
2 force charge charges is good where its at****

DragoshNashu's Avatar

07.24.2019 , 05:08 AM | #6
First of all, set bonuses seem lackluster atm, at least dps-wise, didn't check tanking. Compared to the inquisitor options for mix/matching different 2/4/6 pieces, there aren't a lot of options for jugg, and probably the best choice atm would be a 4p from the general sets, pve-wise.
The new ability seems decent, good buff (in vengeance) for hew (when it procs...) or impale.
Regarding some pve set bonuses, a more reliable hew proc would be welcomed.
From the utilities standpoint, I assume these are still in flux, and more will be added or at least redistributed.
World 1st Gods from the Machine NiM Timed run
<Farming Components>

LeyDrewid's Avatar

07.25.2019 , 01:45 AM | #7
The bug with the UI and cool downs makes everything seem off. It is hard to say how the game play is when everything seems off. For example, Embrace the Pain appears to do nothing, but if you keep spamming pressing the button it eventually triggers a second time. However the timing doesn't make sense for tank specs.

I understand that the balancing isn't finished, but as it stands now, my jugg tank feels much squishier than my sin co-tank.

The jugg set bonuses also seem unfinished compared to the sin.

=== General Observations / Bugs / Potential Issues ===

The Preserver's set bonus, regen 1% of your max health every 10s, is broken or has a type-o. It currently only regens 0.1%.

The new medpac, I assume the "tier 11" craftable one, has the almost the same HP gain as the current medpac. Given that our health has more than doubled it seems a bit low. When 5.0 launched the medpac healed almost 50% of the current max. In 258s it is closer to 33%. The new medpac heals less than 20% the current max help. When you power creep the gear between this expansion and the next one, that medpac will be a joke. PvPer's won't notice because the PvP medpac is % max health based.

When earning renown, you don't seem to earn legacy XP. I don't know if players earned legacy XP when earning command xp in the current system. It seems like a mistake if new players are punished for playing there max level toon.

=== PvE Jugg Immortal evaluation ===

This is very limited since we are missing a lot. The new style of set bonus and tactical is a more convoluted version of the old set bonus style. Instead of one source of gear augmenting 3 skills you have two sources of gear augmenting 2 skills and 2 static bonuses.

Enraged Defense doesn't seem to have scaled to the new max health. At some point after 5.0 launched it was scaled up to where it is on live. It probably needs to be adjusted again.

Most of your set bonuses and tacticals are bad for PvE Immortal Juggs. They either have no meaningful use, an underwhelming effect, or are just bad. Is the reason the set bonuses aren't finished because you can't think of 2 and 4 piece bonuses that a tank and a dps would both want? Who thought it would be a good idea to have so many generic warrior set bonuses followed up by generic jugg bonuses? Tanks and DPS have different priorities and limitations.

Interestingly the tactical shielding shadow, called Interceding Defense on the discussion page, was suppose to give a 5s CD reduction. In game it does not but it does give 0.5% more DR. This tactical only has use in PvP. The DR makes it possibly good for DPS, the 5s CD reduction made it useful for tanks. I am guessing the DR will NOT apply to guard damage.

Force Bound will be okay in PvP. It turns Intimidating Roar into something similar to carbonize. Both have advantages and disadvantages over the other. I feel like it will make IR useful. The set bonus is worthless in PvE since it doesn't affect enemies with boss immunity.

The undying is mediocre by itself and garbage in comparison to Sin spike DR. By itself, mad dash is a skill that offer 100% defense to an attack if you can correctly time it. The 20% DR after the dash only helps if you can't successfully time the dash. If the 2s of 100% defense wouldn't cover the entire attack, you would just use a better defensive. Compared to Sin spike DR:
-same 20% DR
-same duration 6s.
-CD of Spike is 20s. CD of Dash is 45s, 35 with utility.
-Spike has the added functions of damage (generally not used rotationally for damage though) and is a 2s stun.
--Dash has the added functions of damage (also not used rotationally for damage), is a movement skill and damage immunity.
-Spike will have little difficulty being weaving into a fight so long as the boss is in range and the Sin has force.
--Dash is tricky to use in some fights

Lord of Pain is part bad part dumb part underwhelming. For most boss fights this is just 5% DR on a 45s CD. It will shine on some fight, A&E for example will be more like 20%. The DR being tied to AoE taunt is going to be problematic. Some fights a misused AoE taunt might do a lot of harm, think Dread guards prior to burn. Finally, for the longest time Jugg tanks could do something no other tank could. We could pull a ludicrous amount of enemies, AoE taunt and Saber Reflect. How much damage will SR do if we have 100% DR? My money is on zero.

Jaw Breaker is bad. Our old 6p already extended the duration of invincible. This just does that in a significantly more convoluted way. Backhand is already functionally overloaded and mediocre (possibly the 2nd worst tank advanced class skill). Changing this to grants invincible for 5s would at least allow players to space out activations. Changing the backhand to Endure Pain would keep it tied to a skill that is in a similar function.

Leviathan's Hide is generally going to be a 2.5% DR. Right now this is probably the general tactical of choice. It's a little underwhelming but simple and has potential.

Hoard's Makashi Strike is unnecessarily complicated for 5% DR. You are forcing a rotation to maintain max DR which is going to stop Retaliation on CD. This will cause Blade barricade to not have the possible 100% up time. We lost the old 2p so all of this is for a 3% DR gain.

Embrace the Pain creates a no option problem. Jugg tanks in PvE have self healing issues. I don't know if this is the best way to solve them but this tactical feels less optional more mandatory. I am happy to elaborate if you want. Please don't fix a fundamental flaw with gear, especially if that gear is suppose to create choices.

Mubrak's Avatar

07.25.2019 , 08:19 AM | #8
Are set bonuses supposed to stay that way? Only one bonus requiring 4 or 6 items?
Let us turn off that gaudy flashing icon over every vendor's head.
Let us sort our companion list and hide or kick out the unwanted ones!

LeyDrewid's Avatar

07.25.2019 , 09:17 AM | #9
You can look at the inquisitor as an example. IIRC the spike DR set bonus is a 6p but it has a +2% shield and +2% absorb for 2p and 4p.

The major difference, most of the jugg set bonuses were universal warrior set bonuses. There were only 2 jugg specific set bonuses and even they were discipline neutral. My guess is trying to balance those 2p and 4p bonuses and keep them relevant is difficult.

tolaez's Avatar

07.26.2019 , 02:04 AM | #10
I would just like to state as a general impression all the veng jug and jugg ability seem very meh. Not impressed. The fact that it's pretty much the same as the mara adds to this.

Very uninspired.