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PvP Itemization Feedback - Spoils of War

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP Itemization Feedback - Spoils of War
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
05.30.2019 , 05:19 PM | #1 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey folks,

As we talked about on the Spoils of War stream, how items impact PvP is being changed quite a bit in Onslaught. Let us know your thoughts!

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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bUrself_'s Avatar


bUrself_
05.30.2019 , 05:32 PM | #2
max item rating bolster is good and makes pvp more competitive

set bonuses, tacticals, and amplifiers add interesting wrinkles to gearing and playstyle - I love the idea in theory. please be careful about the magnitude of their impact though, as they could easily be overpowered. the ones you've posted so far don't seem overly impactful though - almost like an extra utility slot or so

on the topic of tacticals please note that they could be very helpful for improving pvp balance without messing with dps/hps targets for PVE. some specs disproportionately suffer in pvp due to difficulties doing their rotations (e.g. lots of casting, needing to roll around a lot to not die (operative dps), and so on - issues take-and-dish damage classes like marauders and snipers don't have) and some are painful to play in solo ranked where you get a lot of games with no tank, or no healer, or neither. tacticals, along with utilities and set bonuses, provide an opportunity to address these challenges for some specs that are middling or poor. thanks!

more gear from more places is also good

in general most of the changes you guys talked about sound theoretically good I think. definitely better than 5.0, which I think you guys know made a lot of unpopular changes

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
05.30.2019 , 05:42 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by bUrself_ View Post
I love the idea in theory. please be careful about the magnitude of their impact though, as they could easily be overpowered.
I am hoping this feature gives them a sort of backdoor way to balance out some of the classes.

You know, maybe add gearing set bonuses that are quite minor yet have great impact on a specific class just because of their innate weaknesses and how the minor buff to a certain ability really could amplify a class's performance.

Personally I am at a point where I expect classes to be OP'd, and others to be gimpy, it seems that's the nature of all MMOs of past and present.

For me, I don't care if some classes suddenly get elevated to the top of the pyramid if that means some of the strongest ones get knocked down a peg.

In a perfect world, no class will be head and shoulders above all the others, but expecting SWTOR to suddenly find perfect balance with these new features they are adding is not realistic imo.

Just don't make mercs, juggs, maras, or snipers significantly more powerful with these new tactical slots or w/e they are called.

If you got to give the stronger classes fun new features too, great, just make sure they are toned down compared to what PTs get or some of the other really gimpy classes that are in dire need of some buffs get.

I think with these new features being added to spice up gameplay of each individual class can be a clever way to sort of balance classes a bit.
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Nayrhollis's Avatar


Nayrhollis
05.30.2019 , 05:52 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by bUrself_ View Post
max item rating bolster is good and makes pvp more competitive

set bonuses, tacticals, and amplifiers add interesting wrinkles to gearing and playstyle - I love the idea in theory. please be careful about the magnitude of their impact though, as they could easily be overpowered. the ones you've posted so far don't seem overly impactful though - almost like an extra utility slot or so

on the topic of tacticals please note that they could be very helpful for improving pvp balance without messing with dps/hps targets for PVE. some specs disproportionately suffer in pvp due to difficulties doing their rotations

more gear from more places is also good

in general most of the changes you guys talked about sound theoretically good I think. definitely better than 5.0, which I think you guys know made a lot of unpopular changes
^ This exactly is how I thought through all the information that was given. Max item rating with bolster makes gear less important at that moment in time, granted a lot of people will still want to get their own version of the gear to customize their stats differently than what bolster will give. Tacticals and Amplifiers add a more diverse playing experience and overall is a brilliant idea, and if implemented correctly, could fix quite a bit of balancing problems that are more fine tuned. I feel like they should have an effect, but overall it shouldn't give you such an advantage that someone without them does less dps/hps/whatever. Both should be implemented to be noticeable but not meta defining, heavenly spotlight shining down noticeable.

However I do have a question regarding how that bolster will work. In the past, and currently on live, bolster takes you to 252 but doesn't bolster your armor rating. WITH this bolster putting everyone at max item level, would it bolster armor rating or would you keep the same bolster mechanic in that regard?

ALSO, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MY OWN SOUL AND EVERY CONCEALMENT OPERATIVE MAIN IN EXISTANCE. FIX THE INTERACTION BETWEEN COMMANDO NET AND OPERATIVE EXFILTRATE. THE GAME ALLOWS US TO ROLL RESIST MERC NET BUT COMMANDO NET GOES STRAIGHT THROUGH OUR EXFILTRATE RESIST!
CaninKnin
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.30.2019 , 06:16 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Nayrhollis View Post
ALSO, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MY OWN SOUL AND EVERY CONCEALMENT OPERATIVE MAIN IN EXISTANCE. FIX THE INTERACTION BETWEEN COMMANDO NET AND OPERATIVE EXFILTRATE. THE GAME ALLOWS US TO ROLL RESIST MERC NET BUT COMMANDO NET GOES STRAIGHT THROUGH OUR EXFILTRATE RESIST!
he's absolutely right. fix this. net needs to apply hinder through everything.
Krack

DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
05.30.2019 , 06:46 PM | #6
This is going to be a disaster IMO, gimmicky itemization is a recipe for tons of abuse from premades that are dead set on running the most OP setups possible. In regs most premades just spam mercs which is already a giant headache as it is, but with the addition of this tactical or w/e stuff this is, I just can't see this ending well, every game I've played that has gimmicky crap like this is never balanced and always makes a mess of things.

Case in point: Guarded player receiving a force shroud, so any class can get a free 5 second shroud. That alone can break so many things in pvp its not even funny.

I guess we will see. I'm all for it for PvE, hell go nuts, but for pvp? Me-n0-likie...
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.30.2019 , 07:30 PM | #7
Not crazy about the idea that you've not going to balance PVP dps/heal targets with AMPs in mind.

On its own, not really a problem... but then... EACH PIECE of gear has 4 AMPS?!!!

And then you mentioned that amps of the highest level WILL ONLY BE AVAILABLE IN RANKED?!

(Note, caps for easy identification of main points, not yelling, lol)

If the stat difference is comparable to the difference between 252 and 258, then it wouldn't be a huge deal, of course. But when you're talking about things like increased crit chance, armor penetration, then you're getting into the realm of percentages, not additive stats, which have a much stronger effect. Should a person outfitted with top AMPS (nobody is gonna cheat in ranked to get those! ) have 10% more crit chance than someone else? 10% more armor penetration? Seems like a pretty big difference.

Look, I seriously don't think you guys are understanding the main problems that exist in ranked, unless you have some kind of sweeping change to the way the ELO works, of course.
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Nayrhollis's Avatar


Nayrhollis
05.30.2019 , 07:57 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
he's absolutely right. fix this. net needs to apply hinder through everything.
Well, I have realized I might've just screwed concealment over as a whole. But I'd like to know if the commando net is genuinely bugged and that is why commandos' nets go through shroud, mad dash, and exfiltrate.

Also, you suck for mentioning that
CaninKnin
"Where in the nine hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?"
Just an NA concealment one-trick

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.30.2019 , 08:24 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Not crazy about the idea that you've not going to balance PVP dps/heal targets with AMPs in mind.

On its own, not really a problem... but then... EACH PIECE of gear has 4 AMPS?!!!

And then you mentioned that amps of the highest level WILL ONLY BE AVAILABLE IN RANKED?!

(Note, caps for easy identification of main points, not yelling, lol)

If the stat difference is comparable to the difference between 252 and 258, then it wouldn't be a huge deal, of course. But when you're talking about things like increased crit chance, armor penetration, then you're getting into the realm of percentages, not additive stats, which have a much stronger effect. Should a person outfitted with top AMPS (nobody is gonna cheat in ranked to get those! ) have 10% more crit chance than someone else? 10% more armor penetration? Seems like a pretty big difference.

Look, I seriously don't think you guys are understanding the main problems that exist in ranked, unless you have some kind of sweeping change to the way the ELO works, of course.
If those items will only be available to obtain the best ones in ranked, I hope they have plans on nerfing them if used in regs. Otherwise regs will be a disaster for ALL players who don’t play ranked.

Not only will they be playing against ranked players of higher skill, but they will also be against players with the best gear and no way for them to earn the gear themselves.

This seems a recipe for disaster and we go back to the system of haves and have nots. This will kill reg pvp for many casual players. Pvp is already bleeding players and it’s already turned into a crap fest.

If you gate the best gear behind ranked, then you will put a nail in the coffin for all pvp because more people won’t play pvp. Which is likely to happen anyway with the “play the way you want” system.

I think you need to make all gear just as available in regs as well as ranked. Ranked should only be about rewards and not about farming gear or farming mats. That will only encourage more cheating and encourage people to offer paid services to run non ranked players to get gear.

That is, unless you plan on making gear bolstered all above full in reg pvp. Enough to make it not matter what gear or itemisation you equip, which doesn’t sound like you are.

Please consider that the majority of pvpers play reg pvp. They do not play ranked. But those same ranked players DO PLAY reg pvp and will decimate anyone who doesn’t have the same lvl of gear. Even if those players are of equal skill.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.30.2019 , 08:30 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Nayrhollis View Post
Well, I have realized I might've just screwed concealment over as a whole. But I'd like to know if the commando net is genuinely bugged and that is why commandos' nets go through shroud, mad dash, and exfiltrate.

Also, you suck for mentioning that
Makes you wonder which one is the bugged one. Merc or Commando or neither.