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Disable guild perks for dummy parsing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Disable guild perks for dummy parsing
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THAT_EPIC_GUY's Avatar


THAT_EPIC_GUY
02.24.2019 , 06:41 PM | #1
During the initial implementation of guild perks feedback was taken from the players and these perks were disabled in PvP and nightmare operation instances so as to avoid granting players unfair advantages and to avoid indirectly nerfing challenging PvE content.

I'm just posting this thread to make a recommendation to disable these perks in dummy parse settings too. Dummy parsing for a long time has been a useful data point for players in learning rotations, optimizing output, selecting classes and operations group compositions. Third party leaderboards have also been a means of players to compete in dummy parsing. I feel that the presence of guild perks skews this important piece of data, damages this aspect of competition and may also have impacts on expected performance and thus balancing. This is why I feel guild perks should also be disabled in instances where dummy parsing is possible; namely player strongholds and player starships (I feel the lack of guild perks in these instances is not very damaging on player experience anyway).

If people wish for perks to be retained in these instances can some sort of system to differentiate players with and without perks be implemented (ie. a player buff or some sort of combat log entry)?
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CaptRogue's Avatar


CaptRogue
02.24.2019 , 10:29 PM | #2
^SIGNED!! Needs to be able to be disabled or something.
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mrphstar's Avatar


mrphstar
02.25.2019 , 07:26 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by THAT_EPIC_GUY View Post
During the initial implementation of guild perks feedback was taken from the players and these perks were disabled in PvP and nightmare operation instances so as to avoid granting players unfair advantages and to avoid indirectly nerfing challenging PvE content.

I'm just posting this thread to make a recommendation to disable these perks in dummy parse settings too. Dummy parsing for a long time has been a useful data point for players in learning rotations, optimizing output, selecting classes and operations group compositions. Third party leaderboards have also been a means of players to compete in dummy parsing. I feel that the presence of guild perks skews this important piece of data, damages this aspect of competition and may also have impacts on expected performance and thus balancing. This is why I feel guild perks should also be disabled in instances where dummy parsing is possible; namely player strongholds and player starships (I feel the lack of guild perks in these instances is not very damaging on player experience anyway).

If people wish for perks to be retained in these instances can some sort of system to differentiate players with and without perks be implemented (ie. a player buff or some sort of combat log entry)?
i dont get why all these parses with bugged alacrity guild perk are still up there anyway.
and why you guys keep uploading them. i mean, you made your point, its OP. they should be simply removed now.

i dont think BW is in charge to support 3rd party programs and leaderboards here. i know its hard work, but the guy behind parsely needs to find a way to filter such things, not BW. i wouldnt even mind if parses with legit guild perks would be kept on the board, since these things are part of the game now.
but insane high dps numbers which wouldnt be possible without a bugged 10% (instead of 5%) alacrity boost and therefor 1.2 GCD should be removed.

UlaVii's Avatar


UlaVii
02.25.2019 , 08:48 AM | #4
Parsely can only filter what shows up in logs so they do block parses with the Guild Reinforcement Strike (orbital strike set bonus) as they clearly show up:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...79/unknown.png

However there is very little they can do about other passive perks like the 30% adrenal perk or the passive Zeal bonus 5% alacrity increase (or 10% as you say). There are more like that which do not display anything in the log. Some could be worked around like the adrenal start and end duration can be calculated but things quickly begin to get complicated.

The fact is that perks can change at any time and BW have already stated that they will randomly drop new perks on us with no advance notice so it will always be a game of catchup for the Parsely crew. I'm not just talking about new perks but also the cases were they believe they have fixed one problem but introduced others or were they have not considered the ripples that one change may have.

We've already identified several broken perks and bonuses and BW have remained silent on any fixes. Perks are like any other guild improvement BW have added; they add them without any real testing and then ignore the bugs and blatantly poor decisions because they don't understand how the game works. It doesn't seem there is any logical form of testing when they add perks like Warzone I and Warzone II which require your entire team to be in the same guild

You can continue to argue and say that is BW's right/choice and 3rd party sites/programs should just deal with it but why should they? If the parsing apps and sites go down because of BWs total lack of transparency then we have no way of testing out the numbers for ourselves and instead we're forced to depend on Bioware's "metrics". In BW land the # of people that do parsing is very low which means changing perks for those people is down at the bottom of the to-do list like most things that are not cartel market sales-hook related.

I think Parsely have done a great job over the years for very little in return and it's a shame that BW have slapped them them in the face like this. There is still skill required to climb the leaderboards but part of that is now about choosing a guild with the perks to help you get higher and hoping that BW don't change any perks you are relying on e.g. someone with 10% alacrity and 30% adrenal boost will be hard to beat in a few months if those values change.

I feel bad for the BW devs who actually do a good job in their areas. They are massively let down by the producers and the other devs who care little for the game and only play in the sense that they run the same specific pieces of content over and over meaning they can't implement effective tests that reflect real game scenarios.

I look at my recent forum posts here and find I have become very bitter and jaded. I think I'll return my focus to updating the threads I maintain and try to keep emotion out of things as that is clearly just leading to disappointment.

Now be good children and take your placebo; "We are listening"

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
02.25.2019 , 09:19 AM | #5 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hmmm, let me check with the combat folks on this and see if there is something we can do. As others have pointed out, we don't make or control the actual parsing tools... but we do control the information that is pushed to the log.

Let me ask and see if we have any options here.

-eric
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UlaVii's Avatar


UlaVii
02.25.2019 , 10:38 AM | #6
Ahhhh yellow text, endorphins are flooding our systems

You miss the point. Even if you output to the log every detail about every perk then people will still be forced to decide between "do we want to keep these characters in guilds?" or "do we want to parse with these characters?". Sure you could have both by constantly joining and leaving your guild(s) but then you put more pressure on officers to handle that with our broken guild panels and there are other repercussions like their CQ scores being reset if they are also into that. Alternatively people could make secondary characters and send gear around via legacy sets but that will still diminish the number of people parsing due to the left side items not being legacy bound.

The short and straight to the point title of the thread sums up what the request was:

"Disable guild perks for dummy parsing"

Edit:

The other aspect of this is that there are also people that submit parses for boss fights which is a whole other kettle of woe to deal with:

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/...ll/all/live/0/

..but maybe that is where a compromise comes into play.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
02.25.2019 , 12:50 PM | #7 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
The team believes this is actually something we can address so they are beginning to investigate fully to confirm that they can, and when we can fit it into the schedule.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

-eric
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Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
02.25.2019 , 12:59 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The team believes this is actually something we can address so they are beginning to investigate fully to confirm that they can, and when we can fit it into the schedule.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

-eric
Good job on the acknowledgement and follow up! Gold star for Eric!

UlaVii's Avatar


UlaVii
02.25.2019 , 01:00 PM | #9
Could you detail what you consider to be a fix for this? That way the parsers know what to expect and if they will have to prepare for anything in particular. Guild leaders would probably also appreciate a heads-up if perks are going to be made any more unusable.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
02.25.2019 , 01:08 PM | #10 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by UlaVii View Post
Could you detail what you consider to be a fix for this? That way the parsers know what to expect and if they will have to prepare for anything in particular. Guild leaders would probably also appreciate a heads-up if perks are going to be made any more unusable.
Once I have those details I can share them, yes The initial conversation was that they believe it is possible, but now they need to explore "how" to proceed to achieve it.

To alleviate your concern any change we make here should only impact parsing on dummies.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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