Let's keep in mind that we may be getting a new tier of augments as well

Cite? if not (and i'm aware of no indication, in PTS or from the unmentionable datamining effors) can we not just throw stuff like that out there?

dummy parse are not a real world example of the damage you can output in pvp as in pvp you are fighting people who can move and counter then things you do and prevent damage from being done factors that are not in place when you are hitting a dummy that doesn't move or fight back.

Dummy parse is not a real world example of damage, no. but if i can maintain rotation A in a pvp match and do X damage with the new gear in the same fight i'd expect to do roughly 10% more. That won't be 1000 dps because you aren't achieving 100% uptime, but it will still be a significant increase.

Cite? if not (and i'm aware of no indication, in PTS or from the unmentionable datamining effors) can we not just throw stuff like that out there?

The last official thing I heard was there weren’t going to be any new Augments

As it stands right now, you can have 7 258 legacy pieces during the second week of the expansion using only components and completing three weekly flashpoint missions. Is that really so unreasonable?

On the issue of crafting, I would be incredibly surprised if you see gear listed for sale in the first month or two after 5.10 simply because raiders will likely be using it to gear themselves or their alts.

As it stands right now, you can have 7 258 legacy pieces during the second week of the expansion using only components and completing three weekly flashpoint missions. Is that really so unreasonable?

 

On the issue of crafting, I would be incredibly surprised if you see gear listed for sale in the first month or two after 5.10 simply because raiders will likely be using it to gear themselves or their alts.

This is the PTS and they want to check the content. The gearing will be slower in the live version.

@kukumburr

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I was wondering if there had been any change with the latest pts to add the 258 Main/OH weapons to the vendor?

I was wondering if there had been any change with the latest pts to add the 258 Main/OH weapons to the vendor?

PTS has been down but when I logged on right after the patch went up everything on the MWS gear vendor looked the same. Still no MH/OH.

PTS has been down but when I logged on right after the patch went up everything on the MWS gear vendor looked the same. Still no MH/OH.

I wonder if they are going to discuss what’s happening with it or not. At least an explaination as to what they are thinking would help.

We really need expertise back. That way, BiS pvp gear is obtainable by doing pvp and BiS pve gear is obtainable by doing NiM.

No we really don't. I have just started doing Op's which I would never ever even have tried if you got your way. All statements like yours do, is just alienate the rest of us.

However having played on the P.T.S Ossus only daily area. This gear requirement is not acceptable. I had 252 fully augmented gear from the Odessen venders. While I could do the majority with this gear is was difficult going. No one is going to have this gear to begin with. The heroic could not be done solo. As the reward is tied to the weekly which includes the heroic, solo players are not ever going to get 252 gear never mind 258. So is Ossus only aimed at group players? Yes I could group for this, however BW is there some confusion on your part about the terrn "solo Player"? I have as said just started doing Op's but still consider myself a solo player. Even if doing Op's others say well no longer a solo player then! there are still many of them.

It's a nicely designed game area, so well done on that aspect. However it will also never be visited by me once it go's live. So guess my "story" ends with the last FP. Purely because of your new gear system BW.

Allowing BiS gear to be selled in any game market it feels very wrong, even more in a MMORPG ... It goes to close to that realm that EA was very criticised in other games.... just saying.....

Have you even inspected the cost in materials and effort to craft this gear? It is the worst possible pathway to the new gear currently, based on PTS. If you, or anyone, plans on just buying their way into this gear... LMAO. Crafted gear is at best.... a method to build your own gear (or a circle of friends to do so.. through hard effort to obtain the materials) ... and is prohibitively expensive to have any real momentum in the player economy.

And the crafted versions are the only ones that are BoE (hence tradable between players).

Have you even inspected the cost in materials and effort to craft this gear? It is the worst possible pathway to the new gear currently, based on PTS. If you, or anyone, plans on just buying their way into this gear... LMAO. Crafted gear is at best.... a method to build your own gear (or a circle of friends to do so.. through hard effort to obtain the materials) ... and is prohibitively expensive to have any real momentum in the player economy.

 

And the crafted versions are the only ones that are BoE (hence tradable between players).

What.....?

Any news yet on the 258 Mainhand/Off hand weapons being available on the vendor?

Still the same. They're not on there. They said on the livestream today there will be a post talking about gear some time in the next couple weeks so maybe we'll learn something then.

No we really don't. I have just started doing Op's which I would never ever even have tried if you got your way. All statements like yours do, is just alienate the rest of us.

How would bringing back different gear for PvE and PvP and making the hardest content reward the best gear make you stop raiding or pvping if you want to ?

As it is now, BiS is almost handed to you. It'll pretty much still be the case after 5.10. Sure it'll be grindy, but Ossus weekly is far from the hardest content there is in the game yet it rewards the best gear. Would you ask for the salary of your CEO as a simple office worker ? I don't think so. Greater difficulty should reward greater rewards.

Gear is a great way to incetivize people to run harder and harder content thus making the harder content community grow (or at least stay stable) with fresh players joining the fun.

Another argument for 2 sets of gear is that, and it's a basic of any MMO, PvP should not be a viable way to get the best PvE gear and vice versa. Which pretty much is the case at the moment with the best method being runing HM ops for 242 gear and pvp to get UC to change them to 248. With 5.10 it'll become heavily gimped towards PvE which is a bad design.

I think I'm quitting the game since they are going to bring back the GRIND for gear. I love to play 5-6 different classes and its going to be to hard to gear now. If this is what they decide I will be leaving and I have friends who feel the same.

What exactly is the problem of playing class 2-6 with 248+?

What exactly is the problem of playing class 2-6 with 248+?

as tier 5 grind look like on pst for a casual player... says 10h per week it mean

Tier 1 to 4 = 4 month, tier 4 to 5 = 4 month = 8 month to full a character.

I suppose the best solution would be a bolster that both scales up and scales down, but I don't know if that's possible to implement.

There would be a 1st and 2nd endgame tier of gear that are easy to obtain, can be bought for comms gotten from wzs and heroics and whatnot. Pvp bolster would bolster everyone who has gear better than tier 2, down to tier 2. Minimum bolster would be tier 1. The ilvl difference between tier 1 and tier 2 would be small. There would be higher gear tiers, but obtained slower and only via more difficult pve content.

This way there would be gear progression in pvp, one that is fast and thus minimises gear imbalance. The small bolster window would further limit imbalance. There would be separate gear progression for pve. Pveers could join pvp without swapping gear. Pvpers could keep on doing what we like and gear up. Higher pve gear would be irrelevant in pvp. Comms obtained in lowbi pvp would invigorate lowbi pvp.

This is ofc more long-term new expansion level thinking.

As for the current upcoming gear, either make masterwork gear more easily obtainable for pvpers and their alts (lower UC costs, remove lockouts and reputation requirement, make gear accessible without having to complete the story (place vendor on fleet)), or simply make pvp bolster 258. (It would still be beneficial for pvpers to get at least 248, to minmax stats.) Having bolster at max lvl would also make the amazing pvp in this game more accessible to new and returning players. Masterwork gear is aimed at NiM ops players anyway, so why should it affect pvp at all?

It is further incredible that BiS gear is planned to be craftable and BoE with this system. If it didn't require such astronomical materials, again some only gotten from NiM ops, maybe it could work. Or if pvp bolster was simply increased to 258, it wouldn't be a problem.

Mods and enhancements being bound to item slot in the set bonus gear further hurts pvp. For example most classes do not need accuracy in pvp, and so pvpers will be forced to either buy crafted mods/enhancements for fortunes, or just be at a stat disadvantage. Again, pvp should be about skill, not very hard/expensive to get gear. That's for pve. (MH/OH only being craftable will also give a stat advantage in pvp to the very rich players. It is not a good game environment.)

Lastly, I don't understand why you are planning to force players to do certain content to gear up for our desired content. So far in this game, we have been able to do the content we like, in order to gear up for the content we like. Except in 5.0, but you later introduced UCs and improved upon that. Why go back on that again??

One more note about masterwork gear being locked behind new story. Some of us like to take our time with the story, even on multiple characters. We don't like to rush through it, but think and enjoy it. With the proposed system, we will have to rush multiple characters through it if we want to gear up fast for pvp (or be at a disadvantage against those who do this). This because the weekly lockouts and increases in UC costs mean that simply pvping more won't gear us faster.

Lastly, I don't understand why you are planning to force players to do certain content to gear up for our desired content. So far in this game, we have been able to do the content we like, in order to gear up for the content we like. Except in 5.0, but you later introduced UCs and improved upon that. Why go back on that again??.

I am intrigued by the gear-sync idea you mentioned earlier in your post, but this excerpt still drew my attention.

I have never understood this mentality that BW is forcing anything on anyone playing this game. By the logic presented above, BW is also forcing everyone to use class skills optimally to maximize DPS. And im sure that statement sounds silly and obvious to many, but it parallels the argument you are trying to make. In order to get specific rewards, we need to do specific content. Or you dont need to do anything at all that you dont want to - at the cost of not getting what you want. I dont want to learn my class DPS rotation, but I want to clear NIM content. BW is forcing me to do something i dont want to do to get what i want.

Hogwash. Its all hogwash.

What.....?

You heard me.

You think a player can simply buy their way to the gear when in reality the only gear that can be traded between players is crafted gear and the crafted gear is absurdly difficult and expensive in resources (and hence time) to craft.. which means there will be little or none of it for sale between players.

Even MM OPs players are much more likely to grind for it through missions, FPs, and OPs which will reward MWS for use on the vendors more so then drop any actual gear or materials. Of course they will craft some as materials drop, but in all likelihood... only for guild member consumption.

Hence your entire premise lacks any actual analysis of what it means to craft this gear (which is the only gear players can trade/sell), so you drew wrong conclusions.

Still the same. They're not on there. They said on the livestream today there will be a post talking about gear some time in the next couple weeks so maybe we'll learn something then.

Hopefully it won’t be too late for them to change things if there is big push back on some of the info.

You heard me.

 

You think a player can simply buy their way to the gear when in reality the only gear that can be traded between players is crafted gear and the crafted gear is absurdly difficult and expensive in resources (and hence time) to craft.. which means there will be little or none of it for sale between players.

 

Even MM OPs players are much more likely to grind for it through missions, FPs, and OPs which will reward MWS for use on the vendors more so then drop any actual gear or materials. Of course they will craft some as materials drop, but in all likelihood... only for guild member consumption.

 

Hence you entire premise lacks any actual analysis of what it means to craft this gear (which is the only gear players can trade/sell), so you drew wrong conclusions.

So what you are saying is that the grind to craft gear is so high thats will be impossible to sell it?and its easyer to do the huge grind that would be doing the weekly mission for MWS, intsead of doing MM Gods?

Genuine questions.

Also, in your opinion why in first place would BW do another grind for gear when they could just tune the operation in MM for the current gear?

And why for the first time in the game they are making BiS craftable able to be sold???You say its crazy expensive to craft the gear and thats true, but you are assuming the ability people to craft that. I know people who had or still have 40B credits or people that have 2000 ranked mats.

This is Genuine question, im not attacking you in any way.

Look, before, you couldnt get top gear from the Gtn, you had to do the content in the game to have it or you could buy Nim runs from people and they would gear you up, and thats ok because its been selled between players, it was or is something that the community itself does by themselves without the BW interference.

Now BW will give you the ability to get the gear directly from their in game market, and the easyest, fastest way to get in game currency its to convert stuff you can buy in their in game Cash Shop or ofc buy currency in "shady" websites. Doesnt matter if its expensive or how hard it is to sell that crafted gear, thats irrelevant.

Theres only 2 types of players that need that gear, the master mode Gods players and ofc the Pvp players that no matter what pvp they do they want and need the gear for obvious reasons xD. BW created a problem with this gearing system they have now.

Anyway no matter what, BiS gear in any game should only be obtainable by playing the Game Modes that reward you the best gear, no matter what game modes they are, can be FPs, operations, pvp, gsf whatever. Never be able to be bought from their in game market, and its irrelevant you saying its to hard or to expensive to do so.

Gearing in an MMORPG its the first porpuse of the game thats why should never be tight to currency, no matter its game currency or real currency, because in game currency as long you can convert it to real currency its just currency, and you can convert swtor credits into real money or money into swtor credits.

So what you are saying is that the grind to craft gear is so high thats will be impossible to sell it?and its easyer to do the huge grind that would be doing the weekly mission for MWS, intsead of doing MM Gods?

 

Genuine questions.

 

Also, in your opinion why in first place would BW do another grind for gear when they could just tune the operation in MM for the current gear?

 

And why for the first time in the game they are making BiS craftable able to be sold???You say its crazy expensive to craft the gear and thats true, but you are assuming the ability people to craft that. I know people who had or still have 40B credits or people that have 2000 ranked mats.

 

This is Genuine question, im not attacking you in any way.

 

Look, before, you couldnt get top gear from the Gtn, you had to do the content in the game to have it or you could buy Nim runs from people and they would gear you up, and thats ok because its been selled between players, it was or is something that the community itself does by themselves without the BW interference.

 

Now BW will give you the ability to get the gear directly from their in game market, and the easyest, fastest way to get in game currency its to convert stuff you can buy in their in game Cash Shop or ofc buy currency in "shady" websites. Doesnt matter if its expensive or how hard it is to sell that crafted gear, thats irrelevant.

 

Theres only 2 types of players that need that gear, the master mode Gods players and ofc the Pvp players that no matter what pvp they do they want and need the gear for obvious reasons xD. BW created a problem with this gearing system they have now.

 

Anyway no matter what, BiS gear in any game should only be obtainable by playing the Game Modes that reward you the best gear, no matter what game modes they are, can be FPs, operations, pvp, gsf whatever. Never be able to be bought from their in game market, and its irrelevant you saying its to hard or to expensive to do so.

 

Gearing in an MMORPG its the first porpuse of the game thats why should never be tight to currency, no matter its game currency or real currency, because in game currency as long you can convert it to real currency its just currency, and you can convert swtor credits into real money or money into swtor credits.

You are inserting your personal belief that BIS should only be obtainable via game modes. The game, as advertised, is dynamic, which means that any rules previously followed by different dev regimes can be tossed out the window at any time if the current dev team has a different opinion or view of their perfect swtor world. We have already seen that with class balance, conquest, GC, and various other aspects of the game. If you cant adapt, or are unwilling, then dynamic games probably arent the best genre for you. It seems as though it leads to more disgruntlement than enjoyment.

I am intrigued by the gear-sync idea you mentioned earlier in your post, but this excerpt still drew my attention.

 

I have never understood this mentality that BW is forcing anything on anyone playing this game. By the logic presented above, BW is also forcing everyone to use class skills optimally to maximize DPS. And im sure that statement sounds silly and obvious to many, but it parallels the argument you are trying to make. In order to get specific rewards, we need to do specific content. Or you dont need to do anything at all that you dont want to - at the cost of not getting what you want. I dont want to learn my class DPS rotation, but I want to clear NIM content. BW is forcing me to do something i dont want to do to get what i want.

 

Hogwash. Its all hogwash.

Wall of txt incoming. Not feed back for the Devs, so Eric, disregard,

I believe he means before 5.0 you could play what ever part of the game you wanted and there was a gear path for it.

Ie, pvp gear for pvp and pve progression gear for raiders.

It wasn’t until Bioware removed the distinction that players were forced (if they wanted to stay competitively geared in pvp) to play content they may not want to,

ie, it was/is faster to gear from 230-242 doing Ops than playing pvp.

ie it is faster to gear from 244-248 doing pvp than playing Ops.

Basically Bioware have made it so you have to play parts of the game you may not want to so that you can keep up with people who do play those parts.

Yes, no one is holding a gun to their head to play parts of the game they don’t like, but it means they are at a distinct disadvantage to other players who do. This wasn’t how it was before 5.0. If all you did was play pvp you could gear up doing so and never be at a disadvantage against people who played all parts of the game. It was the same for Ops players. They didn’t need to play pvp to gear up faster to complete progression raids,

I blatantly refuse to do ops and because of that I’ve had a hard grind to get my Alts up in only pvp. I’ve also been exceptionally unlucky with RNG boxes and have had to nearly buy everything with UCs. So my grind has to gear has put me at a disadvantage for most of 5.x. Luckily for me I’m a decent pvper and is was able to close some of the gap against more average, but higher geared players. But when ever I’ve come up against same skilled players and they have better gear, I will always lose to them, which isn’t fun and is extremely frustrating.

When you start using a stick approach to make people play parts of the game they don’t like, they resent you and some will leave the game. Which is what happed after 5.0 and the months that followed when a huge amount of pvpers left. Within 2 months my whole guild had left because of the gear grind. There are only 2 of us left out of 32 players. Some have come back for a week or two and then leave when they find the grind is still there (even if it’s not as bad as 5.0, it’s still to much for most pure pvpers who left over the 5.0 grind).

This new grind will have a similar effect. Some more pvpers will leave because it too much for them, which is not good for the health or the state of the game. It certainly won’t encourage those who left to come back.

Bioware seem to want to push all the remaining players into playing all parts of the game so that they don’t have to make as much content for just specific play types. If they can get non pvpers playing pvp, they effectively added more (or there is more) content for those people to play. The same goes with getting pvpers to play ops or flash points or grind heroics.

While that might work for pve people, Bioware just don’t understand pvpers. Pvpers never really needed that much new content to keep playing. We had a fairly healthy pvp population right up to 5.0.

Pvp had a content drought for most of this games life, but we all kept playing because content variety for us was changing Alts, min maxing Gear (experimenting) and each match was mostly different (not scripted). All pvpers have ever asked for in the game is class balance, fast gearing to play skill vs skill pvp and no bugs/desync. If we have all of those things we are mostly happy with the maps/content we had/have. This is was something Bioware seemed to start understanding for 3.x and 4.x and then blatantly forgot with 5.0 when they removed all 3 things pvpers needed to stay engaged.

They removed the gearing system (which was perfect for pure pvpers). That included a Mods/enhancement vendor to min-max so we could test different gear builds

They effectively removed the use of Alts because the gear grind to gear them was/is so atrocious.

They made 3 classes super OP for 12-18 months and made 2-3 classes trash for since 5.0 was released (destroyed any class balance or rotated the OP situation around).

On top of that, the 5.0 gearing system had another detrimental effect on pvp because it effectively killed off the lowbies and Mids brackets.

The 5.x gearing system has been the most detrimental to the pvp community. We have felt it worse than any other players and will continue to do so with 5.10. Not just the time it takes to grind, but the fact that it destroyed lowbies and Mids along the way, which actually took a large chunk of content away from us. If you aren’t a dedicated pvper, you will never understand and there is nothing any of us can say to convince you otherwise.

The real winners from the 5.x gearing are the casual players who don’t even need the best gear to play pve story lvl content or heroics. The losers have been the dedicated pvpers and the progression raiders, but at least the raiders are getting a change to fix it for them, pvpers arent. (We need a seperate gearing system that also encourages lvling in lowbies/Mids and playing Alts).

Even with this Bolster announcemt of 252 (better than 248), the gear grind to 258 will still be too much to bare for some pvpers who’ve given Bioware the benefit of sticking around since 5.x. This will be the last straw for them and we will lose some really good players again and the pool of those is diminishing fast. Which isn’t good for pvp or the game as a whole.

Let’s hope that Bioware are listening to more of the feedback the same as they did for bolster. Maybe there is some hope they will change somethings to do with 5.10 gearing.