(snip, whatever).

You know what? You're baiting me, and I'm not going to engage.

But yeah, a character expressing interest and taking a 'no' respectfully doesn't bother me. In the Inquisitor story for instance there's Urtel, who is fascinated with the Inquisitor. That's one of the few opposite-gender one night stands I always take, because he's respectful and even though he likes the SI, he's not pushy about it.

I very much agree with your description of the Urtel interactions and how that was handled. I really enjoy talking to him whether I'm going to romance, be friendly, or reject.

While I won't come around on Doc myself, I have enjoyed some of these conversations in the thread because it does put the situation in a new light for me. If all I'm doing is going around thinking only I get to flirt with people and no one is allowed to flirt with me, I've been playing from a pretty shallow perspective. I have to give credit to the writers for not making everything one-sided.

However, the thing that most irks me about the Doc situation, and if I think more on it, most F-M comp flirting, is the game's use of the word "disapproves". I don't know what was so hard about coding in different emotions in the little text pop-ups, but just narrowing everything down to "approve" and "disapproves" (and prefacing either sometimes with "greatly") muddies any nuance of emotion the NPC would actually feel after being rejected (forcing me to head-canon or ignore altogether).

Would you be comfortable in real life with someone who was flirting at you and you made it clear you were uncomfortable or didn't want it to continue, and they expressed DISAPPROVAL? Disapproval =/= Disappointment. Disapproval feels more like the guy who doesn't take "no" for an answer, and might do something about. The thing I liked about Urtel is there is no DISAPPROVAL. You can hear and see the disappointment, but he is respectful of your decision without becoming a brick wall to you or resenting you.

If Doc's flirting stopped after the first (second, tops) rejection, and/or if they didn't use the wrong emotions in general (this is not the only issue in a game that highlights relationships of all kinds with two generic, inaccurate emotions as default) I wouldn't hate Doc as much as I do.

I have enjoyed some of these conversations in the thread because it does put the situation in a new light for me. If all I'm doing is going around thinking only I get to flirt with people and no one is allowed to flirt with me, I've been playing from a pretty shallow perspective. I have to give credit to the writers for not making everything one-sided.

 

However, the thing that most irks me about the Doc situation, and if I think more on it, most F-M comp flirting, is the game's use of the word "disapproves". I don't know what was so hard about coding in different emotions in the little text pop-ups, but just narrowing everything down to "approve" and "disapproves" (and prefacing either sometimes with "greatly") muddies any nuance of emotion the NPC would actually feel after being rejected (forcing me to head-canon or ignore altogether).

 

Would you be comfortable in real life with someone who was flirting at you and you made it clear you were uncomfortable or didn't want it to continue, and they expressed DISAPPROVAL? Disapproval =/= Disappointment. Disapproval feels more like the guy who doesn't take "no" for an answer, and might do something about. The thing I liked about Urtel is there is no DISAPPROVAL. You can hear and see the disappointment, but he is respectful of your decision without becoming a brick wall to you or resenting you.

 

If Doc's flirting stopped after the first (second, tops) rejection, and/or if they didn't use the wrong emotions in general (this is not the only issue in a game that highlights relationships of all kinds with two generic, inaccurate emotions as default) I wouldn't hate Doc as much as I do.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Indeed, the writers are way ahead: they've already learned from the approval/disapproval approach used in the class romances. In KotFE/ET, alongside approval/disapproval, they also use other tags for companion reactions (e.g. so-and-so is "disappointed," "unusually interested," "slightly amused"). I bet my dinner that taking this approach with Doc would've allowed more players of female PCs to enjoy his storyline.

One other difficulty is the inability to convey the intention of a flirt. I have a few friends who are outrageously flirtatious with everyone of the sex(es) to whom they're attracted, but they are 100% joking. It's all a playful game - and if you actually took the flirts seriously they would back up so fast they'd get whiplash! However, the PC, when flirting with a companion, really has no way of showing any range of intentions. There's no option to distinguish between "this is a fun, lighthearted diversion" and "I am genuinely attracted to you and falling super-hard." Doc in particular, given how he flirts with almost every woman around, would be very fun to treat exactly the same way: "flirting is fun, so I flirted with you" (nothing more, nothing less). The boot's on the other foot now, Kimble!

It's far from the first time I've wished for more conversation options so we can have a range of tones of response. Ideally I'd actually want relationships to be recorded along multiple tracks. Subsequent conversations would be different in recognition of which direction you primarily took the relationship and if there were any notable secondary directions. That is probably asking too much, considering how much of a jerk our characters can be to Lana and Theron from SoR to Ziost and still have them delighted to see us in KotFE - I feel like that implies either 1) instances of cruelty were not permanently recorded or 2) BW simply decided to let us off the hook for our past recorded choices. I suspect the former, but I do consider the latter a possibility, given how often people ask for our choices to matter but complain loudly when they actually face consequences that can't be undone, leading Bioware sometimes to make us experience fewer consequences than they originally planned.

I liked the part where she says, "I suppose it's too late to back out now."

 

And he's like "Haha, not funny."

 

I hadn't had that one yet.

I have done all the options with Doc except for any break up ones. I decided on one of my knights to not marry him though. I chose the option of "I like things the way they are between us" type of response. Doc approves of course, but his next reaction had me laughing. He excuses himself because he has to cancel some arrangements (talking about his marriage droid). I don't recall the exact dialog now but it was funny and still classic Doc.

The marriage is sweet and the one thing I loved because he's the only companion you get an actual marriage with. I am so excited to get him back. I also have a male knight who misses Kira . But the conversations with the male knight and Doc are pretty funny. It's all about having the Jedi as his wingman when they go to clubs. Oh, and he wants to turn the ship into a party ship.

Doc as the preferred love interest ? Is this Stockholm syndrome?

Why on Earth would it be? He's a sweet, funny, flirty guy, not a dangerous, kidnapping terrorist.

Ah yes, you had to make it about Lana. Sitting in a corner of the room studying a holocron or trying to see that you're not dead in the sick bay is way different than actively hitting on someone and ignoring their wishes over and over again that they don't want to be hit on, but sure.

 

If Lana sitting at a desk actively triggered you the way Doc's constant harassment did for me, to the point where you cried when you had to talk to him and didn't play Balmorra for weeks because you didn't want to run with him, I'm truly sorry. But if not, no, you don't understand. We all know you hate Lana and like to take digs at me as often as you can, but with this one, I'm going to ask nicely...please don't go there.

You are getting waaaaaay too defensive here. That post wasn't directed at you at all. Other people are allowed to find a companion's behavior uncomfortable or triggering, even if they're different companions than the ones you find uncomfortable or triggering. Just because you (obviously) like Lana as a companion doesn't mean you should take it as a personal attack if other people find her seriously off-putting, annoying, or creepy. We're all different people, with different opinions and different reactions. Both of your perspectives are equally valid, so please don't act like yours are somehow more valid than others. It's not right or fair.

How would you feel if I defended Doc's behavior to you and acted like you were unreasonable for being put off or in any way upset by it? You'd feel pretty offended, right? You'd feel like I was trying to denigrate you and disregard your feelings, right? So... maybe you shouldn't act that way towards other people who have different triggers and comfort zones than you? Just a thought.

You are getting waaaaaay too defensive here. That post wasn't directed at you at all. Other people are allowed to find a companion's behavior uncomfortable or triggering, even if they're different companions than the ones you find uncomfortable or triggering. Just because you (obviously) like Lana as a companion doesn't mean you should take it as a personal attack if other people find her seriously off-putting, annoying, or creepy. We're all different people, with different opinions and different reactions. Both of your perspectives are equally valid, so please don't act like yours are somehow more valid than others. It's not right or fair.

 

How would you feel if I defended Doc's behavior to you and acted like you were unreasonable for being put off or in any way upset by it? You'd feel pretty offended, right? You'd feel like I was trying to denigrate you and disregard your feelings, right? So... maybe you shouldn't act that way towards other people who have different triggers and comfort zones than you? Just a thought.

I had a response to this, but I'm not engaging. I actually said I was sorry if she felt triggered, but I'm not getting into whatever drama fest is simmering here.

OP, sorry if this was a thread derail, and I'll leave this to the fans of this character.

Doc as the preferred love interest ? Is this Stockholm syndrome?

Oh the homicidal, psychotic and insane Jaesa surely is a much better choice for a love interest, hmm?

Doc is flirty, bold and extroverted but to me he doesn't come across as creepy at all. Really. I rather find him an adorable dork! Jaesa on the other hand, seemingly a fan favourite, that's a character that's messed up good. It's why I don't want to ever romance her, because to me that would be creepy.

Doc as the preferred love interest ? Is this Stockholm syndrome?

Your understanding of Stockholm Syndrome needs some work It's funny how these kinds of posts are directed at female players who express in-game romance preferences.

Why on Earth would it be? He's a sweet, funny, flirty guy, not a dangerous, kidnapping terrorist.

Exactly.

There are many companions and NPCs that people like or want as love interests who are in a word mad but that doesn't stop people wanting to include them in their game story. Doc is harmless and all his bravado is a cover which you find out when you do his and the knight's romance story.

It's sad that all this companion bickering is still going on since last year.

People who always seem to "fight" with each other should just really put each other on block. Instead of making yourself seem like "insert word here"

Anyway, on topic.

Which is your favourite Doc appearance? I prefer the default to be honest!

It's sad that all this companion bickering is still going on since last year.

People who always seem to "fight" with each other should just really put each other on block. Instead of making yourself seem like "insert word here"

Well said. I'm sick of it. I've just finished reporting the offending party and put them on ignore rather than have to see them ruining nice/happy threads.

Anyway, on topic.

Which is your favourite Doc appearance? I prefer the default to be honest!

I prefer Doc's default look too. None of the others seem right.

Well said. I'm sick of it. I've just finished reporting the offending party and put them on ignore rather than have to see them ruining nice/happy threads.

 

 

I prefer Doc's default look too. None of the others seem right.

It would be pretty neat if they made some additional appearances for old companions! Shouldn't be too hard eh?

But that's probably wishful thinking!

It would be pretty neat if they made some additional appearances for old companions! Shouldn't be too hard eh?

But that's probably wishful thinking!

Didn't they hint at this in a Livestream? Or am I guilty of wishful thinking?

Didn't they hint at this in a Livestream? Or am I guilty of wishful thinking?

Hmmmm, I must have missed it? That would make my week though!

Why on Earth would it be? He's a sweet, funny, flirty guy, not a dangerous, kidnapping terrorist.

I agree completely and find him to be a hoot

The marriage is sweet and the one thing I loved because he's the only companion you get an actual marriage with. I am so excited to get him back. I also have a male knight who misses Kira . But the conversations with the male knight and Doc are pretty funny. It's all about having the Jedi as his wingman when they go to clubs. Oh, and he wants to turn the ship into a party ship.

The marriage is sweet, I wish we had other ceremonies because of that one for other companions. I still have to do the convos with a male jedi, but 'bro chat' is ahead lol. I never have the heart to hurt him, so I just escaped those convos and watched them on youtube.

...We're all different people, with different opinions and different reactions. Both of your perspectives are equally valid, so please don't act like yours are somehow more valid than others. It's not right or fair.

 

Thank you yes I agree completely and appreciate all you said.

Didn't they hint at this in a Livestream? Or am I guilty of wishful thinking?

You'll find info about it here Bit early for me, but I'll catch it later on sometime, or get the highlights here. Hope that helps.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=956244

You'll find info about it here Bit early for me, but I'll catch it later on sometime, or get the highlights here. Hope that helps.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=956244

Today's Livestream had a sound fault so I couldn't listen to them (awaiting Dulfy's update). I'm sure they mentioned something about new companion customisations in a previous Livestream. Not sure I would want to change Doc's default look even if new ones became available.

Your understanding of Stockholm Syndrome needs some work It's funny how these kinds of posts are directed at female players who express in-game romance preferences.

 

Exactly.

There are many companions and NPCs that people like or want as love interests who are in a word mad but that doesn't stop people wanting to include them in their game story. Doc is harmless and all his bravado is a cover which you find out when you do his and the knight's romance story.

Agree completely!

As a straight female player, there are hardly any worthwhile romances in the game as it is - especially in vanilla. I liked Doc the best because -- well I like being flirted with!! Also, I liked that he pursues the knight unlike the other romances are initiated by the player. Quinn is a good example of the player throwing herself at him until he finally reciprocates. It was refreshing to be the one getting pursued for a change. Now, I am not discounting "sweet on the eyes" Theron, who is my 2nd favorite, but at least Doc doesn't do things to jeopardize the relationship (*coughs* Theron, *coughs* Quinn).

Now I won't get into the agent one because it always bothered me that they gave female players a love interest with some issue so I always held back with Vector's romance - yes it "bugged" me! The warrior one - yikes yea give a handsome companion who betrays her trust and love. I guess they liked that one because the writers decided to have Theron do that to everyone!

At least I don't have to worry about Doc doing those things. I will take lots of loving and flirting any day over some of the other companion options we got. Plus we have lots of time to cultivate that relationship. At least we didn't get him on Hoth and have to rush through the relationship like with other companions.

Oh and Doc's default look is the best in my opinion!

Today's Livestream had a sound fault so I couldn't listen to them (awaiting Dulfy's update). I'm sure they mentioned something about new companion customisations in a previous Livestream. Not sure I would want to change Doc's default look even if new ones became available.

Oh that's too bad. I'm in the same boat as you, I wasn't home for it, so I too await Dulfy's update. I look forward to the customizations, but I'd be very surprised if they came up with any I really liked. Default Doc is the best one for me.

I liked Doc the best because -- well I like being flirted with!! Also, I liked that he pursues the knight unlike the other romances are initiated by the player. Quinn is a good example of the player throwing herself at him until he finally reciprocates.

That's why I enjoyed Doc's romance too, it was nice for the companion to take the initiative and do the first move and flirt with the PC. As much as I love Quinn, it's one of those that I feel a bit like I persistently threw myself at him until he got my message of Sithy love.

My JK actually broke up with Theron at the end of Nathema in order to get back with Doc. And the breakup there wasn't angsty in any way, which made me not feel so bad about it. I much preferred it to the sad face breakup inside the base.

I rather like Doc, you just have to get through the layers of 'machismo' to see he's not so bad after all and rather sweet under all the bluster.

My other JK is waiting for Scourge, but that's another story.

 

I rather like Doc, you just have to get through the layers of 'machismo' to see he's not so bad after all and rather sweet under all the bluster.

 

My other JK is waiting for Scourge, but that's another story.

Agreed, and especially on Lord Scourge. <3

Agree completely!

As a straight female player, there are hardly any worthwhile romances in the game as it is - especially in vanilla. I liked Doc the best because -- well I like being flirted with!! Also, I liked that he pursues the knight unlike the other romances are initiated by the player. Quinn is a good example of the player throwing herself at him until he finally reciprocates. It was refreshing to be the one getting pursued for a change. Now, I am not discounting "sweet on the eyes" Theron, who is my 2nd favorite, but at least Doc doesn't do things to jeopardize the relationship (*coughs* Theron, *coughs* Quinn).

Whenever I play through with Quinn he is the one initiating, he's just not as forward about it as Doc. He tiptoes around it. I like dragging it along because he will eventually break and "say what he means" and I like the way he handles it at that point. You can skip all of that and just throw yourself at him, of course.

It's sad that all this companion bickering is still going on since last year.

People who always seem to "fight" with each other should just really put each other on block. Instead of making yourself seem like "insert word here"

It'll stop when people stop baiting others on purpose and pretending like they weren't the ones who derailed the thread. I agree "ignore" is both party's friend just to avoid the petty animosity.

I don't know why people like living in bubbles where opposing thoughts should be blocked/ignored/ridiculed, but that's the times, I guess. "Groupthink" was a good thing in that one book I read, IIRC

Well, baiting is one thing, but people can also choose to not take the bait. There will always be people who look for drama. We can choose not engage.

I don't mind talking about characters with people who don't like said characters as long as the discussion stays respectful. It's somewhat sad there's really no place for that anymore, it's mostly just these love threads. Or maybe I'm just pipedreaming, respectful disagreements on the internet, what's that.

Anyway, I like that Doc is returning, though I'll have a tough time deciding whether my twi'lek sentinel will stay with Theron or take him back... Thankfully I have a chiss sentinel who stayed faithful to him in either case. but this thread seems like it might be more drama than I'm comfortable with.

Anyway!

What was Doc's letter again? 👀