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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


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I returned to this game yesterday after a few months of absence and found myself in the exact situation you described.

Not going to give their names, gonna cut them some slack because they are beginners and lack experience - i know they were beginners because they had no buffs except the one from their classes & no achievements whatsoever.

Still it would be nice if people would stop los-ing all HS and attacking cc-ed mobs & turrets.

 

Looks like PvP behaviour to me - in PvP, there is different behaviour necessary than in PvE.

 

I think most of the problem is the top-geared, veteran players who do speed runs of the vet flashpoints. They have enough gear that they can ignore the mechanics and just burn the boss. No CC or dcd's needed when you can just aoe the mobs down in no time flat and shrug off the incoming damage.

 

I agree to that - I do know it from my own guild.

 

One day, we did Hammerstation with LOwbies. And with "lowbies" I mean around level 20-30 !

 

I never knew that the final boss had such a strong killing ability !

Because that is never shown / played out with veteran gear and levels. You simply ignore that.

Us lowbies were almost insta-killed by that.

 

This is a difference most vet players don't even realize : Mechanics are so much more dangerous for lowbies in groups.

But then, lowbies are frowned upon, which maked the circle of vet players ebven more a closed circle, as hey don't allow lowbies into their groups anymore, and lowbies have no chance at leaning. Except levelling up as fast as possible - without properly learning the mechanics. And then vets wonder why there is no experience in them.

 

another reason why level 70s who want to do tactical fp should have separate queue

 

I agree.

Edited by AlrikFassbauer
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I never knew that the final boss had such a strong killing ability !

Because that is never shown / played out with veteran gear and levels. You simply ignore that.

Us lowbies were almost insta-killed by that.

 

I assume you mean the channeled cleave? You can and should move out of it, no matter the lvl. Just fyi.^^

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Tactital is a gimped system. So as long as it exists, the average level of the player base will stay low.

This is correct. VM FPs were made to make roles not matter for the sake of making queues pop faster. People who run VMs all the time don't really learn the proper way to function in a group, nor do they learn proper boss mechanics for their role, since healers and tanks are unneeded. It's just a zerg-fest.

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This is correct. VM FPs were made to make roles not matter for the sake of making queues pop faster. People who run VMs all the time don't really learn the proper way to function in a group, nor do they learn proper boss mechanics for their role, since healers and tanks are unneeded. It's just a zerg-fest.

 

I've only been playing since March. That said, I'm bad at the game. Pretty bad. However, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this statement is false. I only do Flashpoints with maybe one or two operations every now and again. Because VM is role-agnostic, I get into those faster, and therefore, more often. I would argue that the role-agnostic nature of the encounters teaches you more about boss mechanics. The debuff on Athiss's last boss -will- kill you if not removed; and has an iffy survival rate depending on how long between getting the debuff and hitting a kolto station. For the sake of argument, let's not get into Umbara/Traitor/Nathema; as those are arguably outliers (despite how much I would -love- to talk about them). What I noticed is that, as I'm lower level and geared, I don't draw a lot of threat. But, once capped, and my understanding of my rotation and stuff grows, I pull more and more threat (as is a natural curve). Because I'm pulling more threat, and there's no tank, I'm getting hit. Without a healer, I'm not being topped off. As such, if I don't learn how to use my defensives and properly mitigate (or even properly CC), I am -going- to die.

 

My success rate in Master Mode Flashpoints is a lot higher. Why, I cannot say. But, I would argue it doesn't have much to do with mechanics. Master Mode is mechanically harder, yet I have an easier time in them than I do in Veteran Mode instances. I would argue Veteran Mode also teaches people how to function in a group....to a selfish extent. Not in the sense of communication/coordination/composition. Rather, they know someone with stealth can CC mobs so they can skip trash and make things go faster. They know who has combat resurrections so they shouldn't be dead for longer than a minute in the event they do die. The list goes on and on. But, yeah. On mass, I don't agree that role-agnostic = less emphasis on what is going on.

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I assume you mean the channeled cleave? You can and should move out of it, no matter the lvl. Just fyi.^^

 

I'm not that dumb. But - as Vet aka Level 70, you can just stay in it and it won't matter much, because of skills & gear.

 

When was the last time you did that with level 20 ? I mean, with REAL level 20 ?

Edited by AlrikFassbauer
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Didn't say you were. :) It still hurts at lvl 70 if you don't move or pop a DCD though. And what's a 'REAL lvl 20' for you? I run Vets on low lvl all the time, but maybe I'm not real enough. :D

Also, please note I didn't claim that it's not more challenging on lower levels. It certainly is. But people also need to pay attention and not blame it all on other players rushing through. If someone needs or wants an explanation I happily oblige. I just need to know and often enough there's silence in chat.^^

Edited by Padabiene
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I've only been playing since March. That said, I'm bad at the game. Pretty bad. However, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this statement is false. I only do Flashpoints with maybe one or two operations every now and again. Because VM is role-agnostic, I get into those faster, and therefore, more often. I would argue that the role-agnostic nature of the encounters teaches you more about boss mechanics. The debuff on Athiss's last boss -will- kill you if not removed; and has an iffy survival rate depending on how long between getting the debuff and hitting a kolto station. For the sake of argument, let's not get into Umbara/Traitor/Nathema; as those are arguably outliers (despite how much I would -love- to talk about them). What I noticed is that, as I'm lower level and geared, I don't draw a lot of threat. But, once capped, and my understanding of my rotation and stuff grows, I pull more and more threat (as is a natural curve). Because I'm pulling more threat, and there's no tank, I'm getting hit. Without a healer, I'm not being topped off. As such, if I don't learn how to use my defensives and properly mitigate (or even properly CC), I am -going- to die.

 

My success rate in Master Mode Flashpoints is a lot higher. Why, I cannot say. But, I would argue it doesn't have much to do with mechanics. Master Mode is mechanically harder, yet I have an easier time in them than I do in Veteran Mode instances. I would argue Veteran Mode also teaches people how to function in a group....to a selfish extent. Not in the sense of communication/coordination/composition. Rather, they know someone with stealth can CC mobs so they can skip trash and make things go faster. They know who has combat resurrections so they shouldn't be dead for longer than a minute in the event they do die. The list goes on and on. But, yeah. On mass, I don't agree that role-agnostic = less emphasis on what is going on.

Congratulations. You pay more attention to mechanics, and concern yourself with proper cd usage, than 90% of the pugs out there. Most of the time, the pugs I see in VM FPs are like, "Hey, I'm taking damage. Instead of trying to use my defensives properly, or even a self cleanse, if my class has one, I'm gonna go click this kolto station so I can get healed to full in two seconds. Even if there's a healer in the group that is actively healing me, Imma use the kolto station because that's what they're there for, and you don't need healers in VM FPs. They may as well respec to dps to make this go faster."

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But people also need to pay attention and not blame it all on other players rushing through. If someone needs or wants an explanation I happily oblige. I just need to know and often enough there's silence in chat.^^

 

I don't mind explaining the mechanics to newcomers,but often it is like this:

 

Me : OK, now i will "sleep" that turret, don't attack it pls

Dude: attacks that cc-ed turret and dies

Me: when the bridge changes its color to blue, we cross it as fast as we can

Dude: attempts to cross when the bridge is red,falls down and dies

Me: now we all attack the droid

Dude: attacks Vorgan the Volcano and dies

Me: the boss will AoE, when he does you run

Dude: stays there like a statue and dies

Me : do you understand English?

Dude : shut up, bla bla bla insults & other not so nice stuff

Edited by bluehufsa
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I've only been playing since March. That said, I'm bad at the game. Pretty bad. However, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this statement is false. I only do Flashpoints with maybe one or two operations every now and again. Because VM is role-agnostic, I get into those faster, and therefore, more often. I would argue that the role-agnostic nature of the encounters teaches you more about boss mechanics. The debuff on Athiss's last boss -will- kill you if not removed; and has an iffy survival rate depending on how long between getting the debuff and hitting a kolto station. For the sake of argument, let's not get into Umbara/Traitor/Nathema; as those are arguably outliers (despite how much I would -love- to talk about them). What I noticed is that, as I'm lower level and geared, I don't draw a lot of threat. But, once capped, and my understanding of my rotation and stuff grows, I pull more and more threat (as is a natural curve). Because I'm pulling more threat, and there's no tank, I'm getting hit. Without a healer, I'm not being topped off. As such, if I don't learn how to use my defensives and properly mitigate (or even properly CC), I am -going- to die.

 

My success rate in Master Mode Flashpoints is a lot higher. Why, I cannot say. But, I would argue it doesn't have much to do with mechanics. Master Mode is mechanically harder, yet I have an easier time in them than I do in Veteran Mode instances. I would argue Veteran Mode also teaches people how to function in a group....to a selfish extent. Not in the sense of communication/coordination/composition. Rather, they know someone with stealth can CC mobs so they can skip trash and make things go faster. They know who has combat resurrections so they shouldn't be dead for longer than a minute in the event they do die. The list goes on and on. But, yeah. On mass, I don't agree that role-agnostic = less emphasis on what is going on.

 

You don't understand what role Story FP had then. Back then it was to teach you how to play in the trinity system, what was your role in this system so you could be prepared once you transitioned to HM FP and ops. As it is now and since it's gender neutral, you more often than not are forced to play in a role that's not yours. I, for instance, end up tanking each and every time there's not a tank (and even sometimes when there is). What this implies is that people take bad habit. Engaging the combat as a dps or bad execution (or even non-execution) of mechanics are two examples. And when thiose players transition to harder content those habits are hard to break. So we end up with DPS pulling before the tank, people standing in stupid, not executing the mechanics since, according to them, they know what to do despite being a 1st timer in HM FP. The list goes on and this thread has everything you need to prove my point. Sure it happened before, but it's becoming more and more since tactical replaced SM FP. To the point I almost never run HM FP anymore even though I quite like to do it. But the population is so bad I prefer to avoid the frustration of wiping over and over again on easy (at least for me) content because people don't know how to play their role properly or their class properly.

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I don't mind explaining the mechanics to newcomers,but often it is like this:

 

Me : OK, now i will "sleep" that turret, don't attack it pls

Dude: attacks that cc-ed turret and dies

Me: when the bridge changes its color to blue, we cross it as fast as we can

Dude: attempts to cross when the bridge is red,falls down and dies

Me: now we all attack the droid

Dude: attacks Vorgan the Volcano and dies

Me: the boss will AoE, when he does you run

Dude: stays there like a statue and dies

Me : do you understand English?

Dude : shut up, bla bla bla insults & other not so nice stuff

 

I often have the distant feeling as if this could be Arena-playstyle PvPers.

Edited by AlrikFassbauer
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  • 2 weeks later...
Wiped 6 times on Cartel Warlords yesterday. Oh, it was fun. Everyone was following proper kill order, but we weren't dealing out enough DPS to catch T'Chuk before his hard enrage set in. Finally, after one of the commando healers decided to do some more DPS on the side, we managed to pull it off.
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I had a couple of Nathemas (veteran) in the last few days:

One run on my sniper. I toss a quick explanation on the second boss, but the two sorcs still manage to die on the first 'you better stay behind the probes' phase. The other sniper dies at 50%. I finish the boss on my own. One of the sorcs rage quits when the boss is at 2%. We get a mara as replacement and the first phase of the last boss goes well enough... and then there's the second. So, we do manage to dps the adds down in time and we only need one try. But that one lasts around 17 minutes. :t_confused: You probably can guess why. When the boss is at around 25% I'm the last sniper standing and finish him - dps, roll, heal, dps, run, heal. :t_biggrin:

 

Second run on my guardian dps. Not surprisingly I'm the replacement for someone who left right at the start. Two dps, two heals, the commando heal asks at the second boss if everyone knows this one. I say yes, the other two say no... and my lightsaber flies. Oops. :t_angel: At least they read the chat with hastily typed explanations (inbetween the commando being all doom and gloom) and stop killing the probes. I apologize, they die, but boss does as well. Rest goes fine.

 

Third run, still my guardian dps. Everyone claims to know the second boss, so we start. I notice the first probe melting. Okay, maybe it's the AOE of the two sages? I drag the boss a bit further, but nope, probe dies. I drag him to the second probe, type something like 'mind your AOE' and... probe dies too. With the third I notice one of the sages is actually not on the boss but on the probes so I start typing in chat to please stop. No seriously, stop. Guys, we will wipe! Guys... guys? Please leave the probes alone. Ah well... We wipe, of course, the sage finally reads chat and apologizes and the second try goes smoothly. Last boss is a bit of the usual. The other sage refuses to stay close, no one but me does annexes, we wipe two times. But as soon as that sage excuses himself we finish with a replacement no problem. :t_smile:

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Me and my buddy (both DPS) where doing random MFP's we end up in Czerka Core Meltdown, we get to one of the bosses > Enhanced Vrblther and the following happens:

 

Tank pops first spore > boss gets the debuff aaaaaand the tank looses agro, boss runs at me i pop my defensive cds and de-agro and run to the tank, tank doesn't seem to be getting the agro back i die.

 

second spore > my buddy gets agro does the same thing aaaand also dies.

 

We wipe tank says "useless dps" and leaves with his healer buddy.

 

Then he starts whispering me that we should not join MFP's with 230 gear because hes 246.... it was not the 246 raiding set gear but bought mods from the GTN....

 

Me and my buddy laughed as we cleared this FP many many times with tanks who had much lower gear then him without any issues.

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Me and my buddy (both DPS) where doing random MFP's we end up in Czerka Core Meltdown, we get to one of the bosses > Enhanced Vrblther and the following happens:

 

Tank pops first spore > boss gets the debuff aaaaaand the tank looses agro, boss runs at me i pop my defensive cds and de-agro and run to the tank, tank doesn't seem to be getting the agro back i die.

 

second spore > my buddy gets agro does the same thing aaaand also dies.

 

We wipe tank says "useless dps" and leaves with his healer buddy.

 

Then he starts whispering me that we should not join MFP's with 230 gear because hes 246.... it was not the 246 raiding set gear but bought mods from the GTN....

 

Me and my buddy laughed as we cleared this FP many many times with tanks who had much lower gear then him without any issues.

 

Useless DPS, you should drop aggro HARDER! :D

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have one for you.

So My guild mate and I are running a few FP's Vet mode to kill time before the Op of the day. I'm on a DPS and he's taken his heals. So we que up and by pure coincidence a tank from our guild is our third person and the last of our group is some random dude. So we pop Rakata which is great because I need conquest points. Our guildy tank is killing everything in sight which is fine since it works for the Galactic Kills, whatever. We get to the first boss The Wookie and the other guy Marko-Ka and the random DPS says "I will run Koltos and proceeds to run to a kolto use it run to the next kolto immediately after the first use it, run to the next immediately after use it. Meanwhile we have not even dipped below 98% health.

So the Guildy healer starts razzing this DPS "You don't trust me as a healer? I'm not good enough?" etc

the DPS says "you can now DPS"

Guildmate: I'm so insulted!"

We are in Discord laughing our asses off talking **** about this guy.

He says to the DPS "Meh whatever man I'm just joshin' you. Do your thing"

To which the DPS replies "F*** Youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu" proceeds to stand directly in the path of 3 red beams of death on purpose. Dies immediately then drops group.

I queued us up for a replacement and happened to get another Guildmate completely by coincidence so it was 4 of us at the end.

Meanwhile at every boss after that we were like

"oh **** we are at 95% health better hit a kolto. You're healing is garbage where's that Kolto" Laughing the entire rest of the run.

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Since they made a weekly for doing mm flashpoints in order to get Master work data crystals this week, I have had the unfortunate pleasure of being stuck in some really bad groups. I usually run mm flashpoints to get the cheevies and most groups are pretty good and just want to get through them. Now, I get folks want to get their crystals but would it hurt to... I don't know..run the flashpoint in story mode first to learn the mechanics before doing it in mm??!! I can't count the number of groups I have had this week alone with lvl 70's who have never run the flashpoint in storymode but think they can get through it in hardmode by being carried or just winging it!

 

Like the tank and healer who had never done Nathema but don't say anything until we get to the first boss. I try to type out an explanation, but before I can.. tank pulls..and you can guess what happens. Make it to the second boss and as I try to type an explanation the tank pulls and we wipe.. the the other dps quits as do I.

 

And then there is the boarding party run where I get stuck with a group of pvpers who decide roles don't matter and the sniper decides to be the tank by running ahead and chain pulling mobs. As the healer I'm not having any of it and ask him to stop which he doesn't so I let him die to get my point across..over and over and over again.

 

These are incidents just from today! I'm seriously thinking of avoiding doing mm flashpoints during the weeks when they are an objective to get the crystals. The headaches just aren't worth it. :(

Edited by Katnipper
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There was once a discussion about that. Healers feeling insulted when people use Kolto stations.

I must admit that I never quite understood that.

 

Well, it's more when the guy immediately runs and hits ALL the Kolto stations and the party isn't even at 98%... If you are going to use them, use them properly...

 

Even worse is what he said about "Now you can DPS" to the healer, which no the healer can't DPS anywhere near as well as you should be, it's far more time productive for you to keep DPSing and the healer to heal than for you to stop DPSing and go hit a kolto station.

 

Hell, once I actually got kicked out of a group for healing the party and we weren't even fighting a boss... that one made me :rak_02:

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Well, it's more when the guy immediately runs and hits ALL the Kolto stations and the party isn't even at 98%... If you are going to use them, use them properly...

 

Even worse is what he said about "Now you can DPS" to the healer, which no the healer can't DPS anywhere near as well as you should be, it's far more time productive for you to keep DPSing and the healer to heal than for you to stop DPSing and go hit a kolto station.

 

Hell, once I actually got kicked out of a group for healing the party and we weren't even fighting a boss... that one made me :rak_02:

 

I swear, I've had some of the funniest runs on healers... I DPS in the op of the day in SM GF frequently for practising purposes or because the DPS is that bad. I've never had anyone thumb their nose at my max level healers though did have some lowbie group irked I literally killed all the turrets slowly in the False Emperor after they refused to LoS and wiped themselves in sub ten seconds. They wanted me to stuck it, could have stealthed out but saw much more advantage in clearing that area- the lowbie healer there was better at DPS.

 

Normally, I get the same response as I do on a tank- I'm a much loved contributor who tries to be understanding at high level health kolto station hits... lowbie healers though, people tend to think should be just as capable as a max level healer. I got kicked out of a group once on my Commando healer levelling because I couldn't outheal stupid at level twenty... lowbie tank literally pulled everything and then stood in its melting glory.

 

Oh, had a flashpoint the other day in Red Reaper- a DPS was re-speccing healer because I was on my tank between bosses, to help I think but I could actually take the hits, no deaths and we had far more close calls because of lower DPS and bad mechanics- first time I ever saw the last boss get to absorb his red balls of power because the DPS were far too busy enjoying themselves. I was just glad I had the lightning every time to interrupt his chosen- tanking perk.

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Logged into my DPS Sorc on Darth Malgus in hopes of getting a last boss run of SnV before work. Her item rating is 238. Saw a call for it, get invited, then all of a sudden I'm kicked. I figure the game bugged, so I ask to be invited back. Nope, I was intentionally kicked because my item rating was "too low, and we want a fast kill".

 

A GF raid. It's story mode. I have run with people as low as level 50, and without their full set bonus if they are level 70. I've run with people with old set bonuses(ie, the 3.x or 4.x sets).

 

I told them to not PUG if they're that picky and set them on ignore.

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Logged into my DPS Sorc on Darth Malgus in hopes of getting a last boss run of SnV before work. Her item rating is 238. Saw a call for it, get invited, then all of a sudden I'm kicked. I figure the game bugged, so I ask to be invited back. Nope, I was intentionally kicked because my item rating was "too low, and we want a fast kill".

 

A GF raid. It's story mode. I have run with people as low as level 50, and without their full set bonus if they are level 70. I've run with people with old set bonuses(ie, the 3.x or 4.x sets).

 

I told them to not PUG if they're that picky and set them on ignore.

 

 

Ewww, yea I hate a-holes like that...

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