I have posted this in the PvP forum as well.. and I am surprised nobody else has.....

This is a fair question that deserves a fair and honest answer Eric.

If you don't know yet.. then just say so, and tell us why you don't know yet.

If you do know.. then please communicate it.

Thanks.

Bolster is currently planned to go up in 5.10. Let me work on confirming exactly to what item rating it is going to shift and I will let you know.

 

-eric

Thanks Eric.

Bolster already gives ilvl 242 rating...

Increasing it even more makes it kind of pointless to get cRank 300 and 248 gear.

Bolster already gives ilvl 242 rating...

 

Increasing it even more makes it kind of pointless to get cRank 300 and 248 gear.

How is it pointless once we have 258 gear in the game

Bolster is currently planned to go up in 5.10. Let me work on confirming exactly to what item rating it is going to shift and I will let you know.

 

-eric

I really hope it’s 252 or higher.

Bolster already gives ilvl 242 rating...

 

Increasing it even more makes it kind of pointless to get cRank 300 and 248 gear.

Exactly. And that would be a good thing.

Grinding cRank 300 and 248 gear *IS* a pointless activity. For PVE it's fine as the gear is only necessary for niche content, and the hardcore raiders can avoid the grind just by doing their favorite activity. PVP, on the other hand, stands and falls with the number of participants, and when PVP is gated behind a gear grind, those that just want to PVP do it elsewhere, making PVP less varied and fun for those who grit their teeth and did the grind.

Gear rating in PVP should either be capped at 230 rating or bolster should exceed the max rating.

Exactly. And that would be a good thing.

 

Grinding cRank 300 and 248 gear *IS* a pointless activity. For PVE it's fine as the gear is only necessary for niche content, and the hardcore raiders can avoid the grind just by doing their favorite activity. PVP, on the other hand, stands and falls with the number of participants, and when PVP is gated behind a gear grind, those that just want to PVP do it elsewhere, making PVP less varied and fun for those who grit their teeth and did the grind.

 

Gear rating in PVP should either be capped at 230 rating or bolster should exceed the max rating.

Please stop propagating this concept that bolster is an acceptable substitute for gear.

Even when we had 250 bolster and the highest item rating was 242 there was still a noticeable difference between geared and under-geared players.

If you are going to push for bolster to be the "gearing" solution for pvp then you need to also push for bolster to be modified to work on armor rating and tertiary stats, and you also need to be okay with bolster being buggy when they introduce new tiers of gear (just adding 2410 augments re-introduced issues with wind crystal relics).

Please stop propagating this concept that bolster is an acceptable substitute for gear.

Well, bolster is still better than having to do ops in order to be able to play pvp, and I certainly like having only to switch a few gear pieces between PVE and PVP. I'm not pushing bolster, but I don't want a return of expertise either. When bolster is here to stay, it needs to be close to the max rating, but there are other ways to handle the gear gap.

What I'm rather "pushing" for is a form of level sync, that brings everyone down to the pvp rating. There is no need for special subpar but easily obtainable PVP gear - just give everything the 230 rating stats while in PVP.

Well, bolster is still better than having to do ops in order to be able to play pvp, and I certainly like having only to switch a few gear pieces between PVE and PVP. I'm not pushing bolster, but I don't want a return of expertise either. When bolster is here to stay, it needs to be close to the max rating, but there are other ways to handle the gear gap.

 

What I'm rather "pushing" for is a form of level sync, that brings everyone down to the pvp rating. There is no need for special subpar but easily obtainable PVP gear - just give everything the 230 rating stats while in PVP.

Why do you dislike expertise?

Getting expertise gear, esp. post 4.0, was an extremely small grind.

Expertise gear ensured that you had full control of your stats and had none of the issues or bugs associated with bolster (if you've been here for a while you understand what I am talking about).

Expertise was an elegant and straightforward solution to separating pvp and pve gearing, the only "downside" was that you had to carry around 2 sets of gear.

Expertise gear ensured that you had full control of your stats and had none of the issues or bugs associated with bolster (if you've been here for a while you understand what I am talking about).

 

Expertise was an elegant and straightforward solution to separating pvp and pve gearing, the only "downside" was that you had to carry around 2 sets of gear.

We always had bolster and the bugs that came with it. I remember a time in 2.0 or 3.0 where blue level 40ish stuff was BiS for PVP, there actually was a huge thread about exploiting bolster.

Expertise had just one purpose: scale down raid gear to PVP power level, and it failed badly at that. The disadvantage of someone in endgame PVE gear was so big, that even a new max level char in leveling gear had a huge advantage over them, and "hardcore" PVPers usually just pointed out the expertise rating and /spit on the PVEer before leaving the group.

Also, it wasn't just 2 sets of gear, it was 2 sets per role, so if you wanted the flexibility to switch between dps and tank/heal for pvp and pve, you had to maintain and juggle around 4 sets of gear.

We always had bolster and the bugs that came with it. I remember a time in 2.0 or 3.0 where blue level 40ish stuff was BiS for PVP, there actually was a huge thread about exploiting bolster.

 

Expertise had just one purpose: scale down raid gear to PVP power level, and it failed badly at that. The disadvantage of someone in endgame PVE gear was so big, that even a new max level char in leveling gear had a huge advantage over them, and "hardcore" PVPers usually just pointed out the expertise rating and /spit on the PVEer before leaving the group.

 

Also, it wasn't just 2 sets of gear, it was 2 sets per role, so if you wanted the flexibility to switch between dps and tank/heal for pvp and pve, you had to maintain and juggle around 4 sets of gear.

Expertise was introduced at max level because players would not use the free recruit gear that Bioware gave to everyone and would instead sell it for credits.

I think we can both agree that bolster is a poor system, we just disagree on how it should be handled.

I would like to see expertise re-introduced and have BW add the following:

-On the character sheet have an extra tab for "pvp"

-Have a second item bay that is limited to pvp items (gear, medpacks, stims, and grenades could be stored here).

-Whenever you engage in pvp you automatically equip the gear set that you have on the "pvp" tab.

-Every slot would have a basic item that is 4 ilevels below the entry level pvp gear so that even if you load into a pvp instance without any "pvp" gear you would have this set equipped.

I would like to see expertise re-introduced and have BW add the following:

-On the character sheet have an extra tab for "pvp"

-Have a second item bay that is limited to pvp items (gear, medpacks, stims, and grenades could be stored here).

-Whenever you engage in pvp you automatically equip the gear set that you have on the "pvp" tab.

-Every slot would have a basic item that is 4 ilevels below the entry level pvp gear so that even if you load into a pvp instance without any "pvp" gear you would have this set equipped.

And what would expertise do here? Add a damage bonus/resistance if you fill the PVP slots?

Without "expertise", that's kinda what I suggested, I just went one step further, and want to automatically fill the "PVP slot" with a PVP rating version of the PVE item you equipped, since I don't see the point of having a gear progress in PVP. When I play a lot of PVP I already have the advantage of experience, why do I need a gear advantage as well?

And what would expertise do here? Add a damage bonus/resistance if you fill the PVP slots?

 

Without "expertise", that's kinda what I suggested, I just went one step further, and want to automatically fill the "PVP slot" with a PVP rating version of the PVE item you equipped, since I don't see the point of having a gear progress in PVP. When I play a lot of PVP I already have the advantage of experience, why do I need a gear advantage as well?

You could remove expertise and simply call it pvp gear, as long as gear obtained from pve would not be usable in pvp and gear obtained from pvp would not be usable in pve; if the gear sets are inter-changeable then we get back to core issue of gating acquisition.

A small gear progression with a very minimal power difference is not a bad thing:

-It gives players small goals to work towards

-Incentives low level pvp (if low level pvp awards the currency)

-Rewards having an understanding of itemization (thus promoting game knowledge)

-Promotes player agency by allowing you to control your stat distribution.

The "gear advantage" between fully min-maxed 208's and 204s was so small that it was easy to over-come with skill, and the 'grind' was so short that it's almost an insult to call it a grind.

Expertise had just one purpose: scale down raid gear to PVP power level, and it failed badly at that. The disadvantage of someone in endgame PVE gear was so big, that even a new max level char in leveling gear had a huge advantage over them, and "hardcore" PVPers usually just pointed out the expertise rating and /spit on the PVEer before leaving the group.

 

Also, it wasn't just 2 sets of gear, it was 2 sets per role, so if you wanted the flexibility to switch between dps and tank/heal for pvp and pve, you had to maintain and juggle around 4 sets of gear.

^^ This is exactly why Expertise is an ineffective approach.

If I recall correctly, even WoW has done away with expertise.. right? And they basically invented it years ago.

You could remove expertise and simply call it pvp gear, as long as gear obtained from pve would not be usable in pvp and gear obtained from pvp would not be usable in pve; if the gear sets are inter-changeable then we get back to core issue of gating acquisition..

There is no issue with acquisition when there is no PVP gear to acquire. What I'm suggesting is that everyone has the same stats, and the gear only determines the choice of stats, not their value. i.e. an Adept Enhancement of any rating, be it 140 or 258, would be treated as a 230 rating Adept Enhancement for PVP.

^^ This is exactly why Expertise is an ineffective approach.

 

If I recall correctly, even WoW has done away with expertise.. right? And they basically invented it years ago.

And pvp participation in legion and BFA has heavily declined (not that gearing is the only issue, but it is an issue).

There is no issue with acquisition when there is no PVP gear to acquire. What I'm suggesting is that everyone has the same stats, and the gear only determines the choice of stats, not their value. i.e. an Adept Enhancement of any rating, be it 140 or 258, would be treated as a 230 rating Adept Enhancement for PVP.

This approach could work but I think BW's track record with bolster makes this a less than favorable option; I would prefer a system that is less error/bug/exploit prone.

This approach could work but I think BW's track record with bolster makes this a less than favorable option; I would prefer a system that is less error/bug/exploit prone.

And this is why I want bolster finally gone from PVP and see it replaced with a static gear rating for everyone?

You sound as if bolster is a new thing, only bolster without expertise heavily penalizing raid gear is new. Bolster always existed, so that you could compete before earning full PVP gear. There always were loopholes where bolstered PVE gear was better than PVP gear, because bolster adds a bonus dependent on the actual gear rating, instead of just giving everyone the same rating.

In the end, having a PVP gear "progress" while allowing everyone to participate in the gear they currently have isn't worth it. When people don't put on their dedicated PVP gear, just auto-equip it behind the scenes.

And this is why I want bolster finally gone from PVP and see it replaced with a static gear rating for everyone?

 

You sound as if bolster is a new thing, only bolster without expertise heavily penalizing raid gear is new. Bolster always existed, so that you could compete before earning full PVP gear. There always were loopholes where bolstered PVE gear was better than PVP gear, because bolster adds a bonus dependent on the actual gear rating, instead of just giving everyone the same rating.

 

In the end, having a PVP gear "progress" while allowing everyone to participate in the gear they currently have isn't worth it. When people don't put on their dedicated PVP gear, just auto-equip it behind the scenes.

I simplicity mentioned BW's track record concerning bolster, I don't understand how that makes it sound like I consider bolster to be a new concept.

I would be okay with removing PVP gear progress (despite the fact that I think a small progression system is a overall positive) as long as we can control our stat distribution.

[*]Gear - 248 (up from 242)

How can these devs be so stubborn?

I'm out. Good luck with that.

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

All those nice updates for PVP and a new map and then you hit the PVPers with this...

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

Well.. I think the devs need to think outside the box a bit more on this... not just follow the tradition of bolster = prior BiS when new BiS is released.

The gear is already controversial. This bolster adjustment just inflames it even more.