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Suggested 6.0 abilities/passives

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Suggested 6.0 abilities/passives

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.10.2018 , 03:45 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
Shield Tech. no ideas really?
Personally I'd prefer if they'd restore Jet Charge onto tank spec, I barely use it as a dps spec, it has no synergy with either dps specs, but still holds synergy with tank spec. Pull is way more resourceful and reliable (less bugs too funny enough)
Just my opinion

With that in mind, put Battering Ram as a passive onto tank spec and swap it with Coolant, so every spec can get the 35% defense rating explosive fuel + 2% heal total health when above 35% max health on Kolto overload.
That would probably give better defenses for PT overall, at the cost of a highly desirable utility point on legendary (which obviously means you don't have to run it)

It's not much, but you can't argue its overpowered, as it already exists.
I'm very much against this, this essentially means PT tanks will have to spend a legendary utility point to get back one of their defense cooldowns (and they are already behind in defensive cooldowns compared to other tanks) and in return grants them one mediocre utility that barely has any use (in pve at least, i don't play pt tank much in pvp, but i've never found any use for it in pve).

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
10.10.2018 , 06:39 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
I'm very much against this, this essentially means PT tanks will have to spend a legendary utility point to get back one of their defense cooldowns (and they are already behind in defensive cooldowns compared to other tanks) and in return grants them one mediocre utility that barely has any use (in pve at least, i don't play pt tank much in pvp, but i've never found any use for it in pve).
the utility originally belonged in the tank tree before dev took it out and made it a utility. same can be said for jet charge as a whole.
the ability was much stronger and served a great deal of purpose as a pt tank than it ever will as a pt dps
not only did jet charge do a lot more damage, but the movespeed effect had another mechanic where whenever you took damage (something expected of a tank), the effect's duration would refresh itself. Meaning if you were tanking, having 100% uptime was possible, combined with the movespeed peel of oil slick, or hydralic, and you really float.
Retrospectively, there was no reason to take this out to begin with

also, when this change was first made, the defense rating from explosive fuel never even existed, so whatever time you played PT tank couldn't have been before this ability change was introduced. which was during the skill tree overhaul, the same time jet charge was taken out of the tank skill tree for the first time, and the embarrassment that is Transpose was put into the tree, with no realistic class synergy, and no consideration for its usage in pvp or pve, both being desperation maneuvers, or specific co-ordinated strats from people that demand a greater deal of skill & teamwork that is not expected of casual players

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.10.2018 , 08:29 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
the utility originally belonged in the tank tree before dev took it out and made it a utility. same can be said for jet charge as a whole.
the ability was much stronger and served a great deal of purpose as a pt tank than it ever will as a pt dps
not only did jet charge do a lot more damage, but the movespeed effect had another mechanic where whenever you took damage (something expected of a tank), the effect's duration would refresh itself. Meaning if you were tanking, having 100% uptime was possible, combined with the movespeed peel of oil slick, or hydralic, and you really float.
Retrospectively, there was no reason to take this out to begin with

also, when this change was first made, the defense rating from explosive fuel never even existed, so whatever time you played PT tank couldn't have been before this ability change was introduced. which was during the skill tree overhaul, the same time jet charge was taken out of the tank skill tree for the first time, and the embarrassment that is Transpose was put into the tree, with no realistic class synergy, and no consideration for its usage in pvp or pve, both being desperation maneuvers, or specific co-ordinated strats from people that demand a greater deal of skill & teamwork that is not expected of casual players
Battering ram as a utility never existed before 5.0. It was changed from Jet speed (which just applied the movement speed increase with a reset of duration when taking damage) when 5.0 dropped. And yes Jet Speed was once in the tank tree, but even then it was often skipped, except for a few fights where the movement speed could help. But since they added the extra 45% movement speed on Hydraulics utility, I never felt like I needed Jet Speed at all in PvE, good riddance if you ask me.

And my point still stand, if you make the change you propose, you force all PowerTech tanks to take the utility which increases defense change by 35% with Explosive Fuel active, and all you give them in return is this mediocre ability (as far as pve is concerned) that was commonly skipped in pve, even when it was part of the tank tree back in the day. So yeah, you're still forcing all pve tanks to spend another legendary utility point, just to be as effective as they were before this change you're proposing.

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
10.11.2018 , 03:45 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Battering ram as a utility never existed before 5.0. It was changed from Jet speed (which just applied the movement speed increase with a reset of duration when taking damage) when 5.0 dropped. And yes Jet Speed was once in the tank tree, but even then it was often skipped, except for a few fights where the movement speed could help. But since they added the extra 45% movement speed on Hydraulics utility, I never felt like I needed Jet Speed at all in PvE, good riddance if you ask me.

And my point still stand, if you make the change you propose, you force all PowerTech tanks to take the utility which increases defense change by 35% with Explosive Fuel active, and all you give them in return is this mediocre ability (as far as pve is concerned) that was commonly skipped in pve, even when it was part of the tank tree back in the day. So yeah, you're still forcing all pve tanks to spend another legendary utility point, just to be as effective as they were before this change you're proposing.
Utilities are designed to be higher value than auto rolled spec abilities.
Spec/discipline passives are designed to have synergy with the abilities you gain with the spec.
The point is one originally belonged in the skill tree, Coolant before was just an alacrity boost and 2% heal above 35% on Kolto Overload.
Your point still stands... your point is really fickle
You're not understanding the point in time when utilities exist and when they were moved and or reallocated

Jet speed was already gone when Hydralics was made a global ability (it used to be on the Prototype spec), so when you say you feel like you never needed jet speed ever since they added extra 45% move speed i dont know what that even means. You're comparing two diff functions that existed in two completely diff patches.

What I'm saying is that 35% with Explosive fuel was a buff from a time ago that is more recent than battering ram's design. Any spec could benefit from this and have more reliable defenses than sub 50% defense rating because bw scared to make any ability rival saber ward.
In the same patch that battering ram was made a utility, they nerfed Jet Charge's damage, removed its 30% move speed and then some.
In other words, using Battering Ram is like having old school Jet Charge... so why should this be a utility? It's useless

My point is place it in a spec that HAS JET CHARGE SYENRGY
Because jet charge belonged in the tank spec to begin with! Transpose didn't, and still doesn't and probably never will

But instead you're acting like you lose the world you belong in, when the Legendary tier utilities for powertech are so garbage, you could literally go 4/8 unpicked and still be as strong as you were before.
Don't understand that logic, don't even want to discuss this anymore.
Wonder why they nerfed oil slick's accuracy reduction btw... oh wait!

rolandps's Avatar


rolandps
10.11.2018 , 04:39 AM | #25
Moving Jet Charge to tank spec only makes PT DD even more useless in dcds than it already is in PvP
autismftw

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.11.2018 , 05:10 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
Utilities are designed to be higher value than auto rolled spec abilities.
Spec/discipline passives are designed to have synergy with the abilities you gain with the spec.
The point is one originally belonged in the skill tree, Coolant before was just an alacrity boost and 2% heal above 35% on Kolto Overload.
Your point still stands... your point is really fickle
You're not understanding the point in time when utilities exist and when they were moved and or reallocated
Or maybe it's you who doesn't understand that I'm kinda annoyed to have one PT tanks already few cooldowns locked behind a legendary utility, with the only upside being that we get a utility that no one ever takes for PvE anyway as baseline for the tank spec, woop dee *********** doo.
Quote:

Jet speed was already gone when Hydralics was made a global ability (it used to be on the Prototype spec), so when you say you feel like you never needed jet speed ever since they added extra 45% move speed i dont know what that even means. You're comparing two diff functions that existed in two completely diff patches.
They were both utilities you could pick during 4.0 (Jet Speed being in it's original form with the duration reset when attacked). However more than that, my point is that ever since they made the extra 45% movement speed a utility (that is with 3.0), I've never at any point missed Jet Speed. When they brought it back with 4.0, I've never found any use for it either.
Quote:

What I'm saying is that 35% with Explosive fuel was a buff from a time ago that is more recent than battering ram's design. Any spec could benefit from this and have more reliable defenses than sub 50% defense rating because bw scared to make any ability rival saber ward.
Just to clear this up, Explosive Fuel's defense chance affects both melee/ranged and force/tech damage, whereas saber ward's defense chance only affects melee/ranged damage and instead grants a 25% absorb shield for force/tech damage, making Explosive Fuel technically better against Force/Tech damage, although less reliable (because of RNG reasons).
Quote:

In the same patch that battering ram was made a utility, they nerfed Jet Charge's damage, removed its 30% move speed and then some.
In other words, using Battering Ram is like having old school Jet Charge... so why should this be a utility? It's useless

My point is place it in a spec that HAS JET CHARGE SYENRGY
Because jet charge belonged in the tank spec to begin with! Transpose didn't, and still doesn't and probably never will

But instead you're acting like you lose the world you belong in, when the Legendary tier utilities for powertech are so garbage, you could literally go 4/8 unpicked and still be as strong as you were before.
Don't understand that logic, don't even want to discuss this anymore.
Wonder why they nerfed oil slick's accuracy reduction btw... oh wait!
Yeah force people to drop one of their two legendary utility picks on an already subpar spec and wonder why it isn't met with universal agreement, how strange. As for the damage on Jet Charge, honestly I can live with less damage on my main gap closer, considering I use it mostly for that, closing gaps, not pushing damage.

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
10.11.2018 , 07:25 AM | #27
What are you talking about "universal agreement"?
You're acting like this has already been done when its just an idea... jeez man calm down, drink some water kid

PVE PT tanks must have it so hard if they're pretending like their legendary utilities have a plethora of high value picks you cant seem to decide on. Yikes

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.11.2018 , 07:33 AM | #28
What are you on about, I'm totally calm. I'm just saying I think it's kind of slap in the face for pt tanks.

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
10.11.2018 , 07:42 AM | #29
you're clearly not calm if you state "im kinda annoyed".
I'm just proposing ideas of abilities all 3 specs can benefit from instead of them being tied to one spec, when ALL 3 specs have the same issue. I'm trying to do it by avoiding the whole "LETS GIVE THEM A DUMBFCKERY COOLDOWN LIKE THE OTHER CLASSES" approach.
The only reason i used battering ram as an example is because the original concept existed in the tank spec to begin with.
Meanwhile you're taking this like the grand debates to end all debates.
I don't care if you used it or not, it means nothing to me.
I never used Flame surge as a tank because spamming an aoe when most of the fights were single target was never hard and it was never punishing on resource management anyway. That doesn't mean im sitting in the background flipping s#!7 over the fact its now an ability whether I like it or not, when there was easily a dozen odd abilities that could've taken its place.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.11.2018 , 08:25 AM | #30
Obviously I meant I would be kind of annoyed if such a change were to actually go through, you proposing it doesn't annoy me in the least, don't worry. But my problem with this change is still that it wouldn't help tanks at all, it would just help the dps specs at the expense of the tank spec. They'll be a legendary utility short. I'm fine with helping the defensives of all PT specs along, I just don't agree with your way of doing it. (As a side node I don't really like tying defensive and offensive benefits into a single ability, especially for dps specs, forcing them to choose between survivability and damage). I'd love to see some better and improved utilities (in the legendary and heroic sections especially), but taking away things from one spec to make them utilities is not a good way of doing so in my opinion.