Ideally they would fix de-sync, but I understand that might not be possible. But it's not unstoppable at all. An operative can't roll straight from ball spawn to the end line instantly. They're either being passed the ball or they have to run it further. So either play defensively to be able to intercept the pass or un-stealth them ahead of time (there's really not that many places they can be, and they have no knockback). Or kill them, slow them, stun them, etc. before they get the ball too far from spawn.

 

But the easiest solution is just control mid better. Don't let them get the ball in the first place. I actually think any changes should be focused on mid and how the ball is picked up, because the spam clicking when it's about to spawn is kind of silly to me and is something that has been abused with macros before. Maybe add a cast time to it that gets reduced the more teammates are in an area around it, or just a cast time that gets progressively shorter the longer it goes not being picked up, or adding an AoE around it that quickly does more damage the longer you're in it.

I really like the AoE in ball pick up area idea. Make the radius exactly 30M though, so no double operative premade can stay near the ball and flashbang every single time the ball respawns.

But I have to disagree about how easy you make countering operatives sound. In NS huttball there is plenty of room to stand "up" as stealth, and even 8 people AoEing around will have it hard to find you. You could be on the high bridges, in mid or on the side, or you could be anyway around the final line, waiting for the carrier to run straight at you from below and passing to you [This tactic is by far superior but takes some more time, so it is not used in case the other side are not good enough to stop the first tactic, which means, it is quite rarely used...]

Fact is it is so easy to explain HOW to counter but I don't actually see people do it in the field. It is clear that huttball was never intended to be the game in which one side watches as the other side nearly undisturbedly goals again and again, and has the most imbalanced matches most often. This proves there needs to be a change.

There is a way, it's called timing your stuns....unless of course he de syncs through the ground, which is an annoying problem BW needs to address.

 

He only has two rolls now, stun him and kill, force push into fire, pull into fire, knockback, etc, etc. It is not hard.

You're over-simplifying, and it's not nearly as easy as you are trying to make it sound. I should know. I play an Operative, and I can't tell you how many times I've scored in HB with him, but I can tell you how ridiculously easy it is.

Here's a more common example of what I'm talking about. I get the ball and roll once across the acid, then a Sorc with phase walk on the top platform pulls me up, and I roll again and I'm nearly in the endzone. It literally takes about 20 seconds to score that way. And don't forget, I'm immune to any stuns or movement impairing effects while rolling. So unless you're playing a class that happens to have a push or pull, your only chance to stop me is between rolls. If you hard stun me, you're not going to kill an Operative 1v1 unless you've got a lot of help (which is often not the case because everyone is usually all over the place during the match). And if you white bar me, I can still be pulled up and just stroll into the endzone. The only chance you have of stopping that score is to push or pull the Sorc off the platform before they pull up the Operative, and not many players are smart enough to anticipate that and be in position to stop it. And even then, I can still roll through the fire pits, it will just take me longer to get to the endzone that way. Most times though it never comes to that because with that Sorc/Operative combo, I'm scoring before the other team can get to me to stop me.

And that's just one example of how silly and trivial HB/QB can be when it comes to scoring due to class mobility abilities. With the proposed Hinder mechanic, I wouldn't be able to score that quickly or easily, and it would give the other team much more opportunity to stop the score. It would also force my team to protect the ball carrier, otherwise you'll never make it to their endzone.

So no, I don't agree with everyone who's whined about the proposed "Hinder" mechanic, and I'm a little disappointed that Bioware is choosing not to implement it. I just hope their alternative can effectively address the counter play issues that are rampant in HB/QB.

Ok, so you are uniquely using the abilities that are given to you to escape and score. Good on you and that's exactly what makes it fun and sometimes challenging. However, it is not hard to kill an operative or stop an operative unless there is 3 healers and a tank guarding them. The other matchmaking changes will hopefully dispel that issue.

I am not getting more healing than my probes, as I am outrunning my healer and my guarding tank. My survival is nearly 100% all me. And I know I would not be able to do this on a powertech, or mercenary, or jugg, and I know I wouldn't be able to stop myself even if I knew exactly what I was about to do on any of the classes including that operative itself. Now imagine I go with a premade of 4 operatives like me. We would be able to finish the game with 0 damage dealt and without any of the 4 players in our grouo touching the ball or playing objetively. How could that be considered a fair game?

You're over-simplifying, and it's not nearly as easy as you are trying to make it sound. I should know. I play an Operative, and I can't tell you how many times I've scored in HB with him, but I can tell you how ridiculously easy it is.

 

I get the ball and roll once across the acid, then a Sorc with phase walk on the top platform pulls me up, and I roll again and I'm nearly in the endzone. It literally takes about 20 seconds to score that way. And don't forget, you're immune to any stuns or movement impairing effects while rolling. So unless you're playing a class that happens to have a push or pull, your only chance to stop me is between rolls. If you hard stun me, you're not going to kill an Operative 1v1 unless you've got a lot of help (which is often not the case because everyone is usually all over the place during the match). And if you white bar me, I can still be pulled up and just stroll into the endzone. The only chance you have of stopping that score is to push or pull the Sorc off the platform before they pull up the Operative, and not many players are smart enough to anticipate that and be in position to stop it. And even then, I can still roll through the fire pits, it will just take me longer to get to the endzone that way. Most times though it never comes to that because with that Sorc/Operative combo, I'm scoring before the other team can get to me to stop me.

 

And that's just one example of how silly and trivial HB/QB can be when it comes to scoring due to class mobility abilities. With the proposed Hinder mechanic, I wouldn't be able to score that quickly or easily, and it would give the other team much more opportunity to stop the score. It would also force my team to protect the ball carrier, otherwise you'll never make it to their endzone.

 

So no, I don't agree with everyone who's whined about the proposed "Hinder" mechanic, and I'm a little disappointed that Bioware is choosing not to implement it. I just hope their alternative can effectively address the counter play issues that are rampant in HB/QB.

BW is attempting to dumb it down. Yes, it is that easy to learn what your abilities do and how to stop them. The only exception is the dsync issue and multiple healers. Sorry, but with those hinder changes...people who love HB will not like it and it will make it even more boring for those who already dislike it.

All of these changes are great really. But please give us back the discount on character transfer so that I can get away from my dead server with almost no solo ranked in general and no warzone past midnight.

this is the general concensus on CC costs to transfer LOL

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=945861

BW is attempting to dumb it down. Yes, it is that easy to learn what your abilities do and how to stop them. The only exception is the dsync issue and multiple healers. Sorry, but with those hinder changes...people who love HB will not like it and it will make it even more boring for those who already dislike it.

BS. The only players that I know who "love" HB/QB are forming premades specifically designed for it, such as Huttball Themovie. I actually find HB/QB to be too imbalanced based on the class composition. If the other team has an Operative or two who's competent, and a Sorc or two, it's GG. Or alternatively, an Operative and a good healer/tank (Jugg) combo, where the Operative can just stealth into the opposing endzone or to the top ramp, wait for the Jugg tank to run the ball within range of Guardian Leap, unstealth just in time for the Jugg to Guardian Leap to him who will then Blade Blitz into the endzone. There's very little chance to stop that once he gets within range of that Operative, who you don't even know is there.

I've also seen teams comprised completely of Mercs, Marauders, and Snipers who are helpless to do anything more than control mid, but all it takes is one decent Operative and a well-timed Flashbang from stealth to steal the ball from them.

No, HB//QB is not considered "fun" by the vast majority of players I know and play with, and typically the only ones who want to see HB/QB matches are the premades who are content with easy and quick wins.

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. We have really been enjoying the discussion around these changes, especially hinder. The team is looking at an option where we don't introduce hinder at all and make a different set of changes to achieve our goals.

 

Once they have those finalized I will swing back in the thread with their plans to get your thoughts. I should have them tomorrow or Friday. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

The idea behind Hinder is not a bad idea at all, i see where you guys are going and i can appreciate that. It's just that every possible situation involving Hinder would need to be considered and evaluated, which it seems you are doing, thank you for that. As a true pessimist of this game for the past few years ( or longer) i am impressed with the effort being placed into resolutions for PVP. I am starting to feel a bit optimistic, i may need therapy for this.

BW is attempting to dumb it down. Yes, it is that easy to learn what your abilities do and how to stop them. The only exception is the dsync issue and multiple healers. Sorry, but with those hinder changes...people who love HB will not like it and it will make it even more boring for those who already dislike it.

Blue is a self-contradiction if you think about it. It truly is easy to learn what my abilities are and how to counter the pitiful attempts of less mobile classes to stop my goals, and I did it already. BioWare is "undumbing" the game and making it not "dumbly" easy to score a goal as an operative with a friend, but instead, require coordinated teamwork to actually get the ball to the other side.

Those who picture slow walks from the ball spawn to the line are too narrow-minded and fixated on their current gameplay style to understand that they are not SUPPOSED to be holding the ball solo all the way anymore, but instead PASS it to the guy who USED to be your leap-target or sorc puller. The difference will literally only be the distance from the ball stand to the place where you used to leap/be pulled, and then the time it takes to walk down the bridge rather than roll down. The rest is same because the 2nd guy can still run there with his mobilities because at that point he is not a ball carrier!!

About the dsync, that is a BIG issue and as long as they can't fix it yet, removing mobility from ball carriers means removing dsync where it is the most game breaking in the entire game. That is a really considerable +1 to that.

Green is partially true: People who either play only/mostly premade and/or operatives will not like it.

Red is totally false, people who dislike huttball because it is now mobility and desync fest will now consider not quitting before the match has even begone because they would feel they actually have a chance to contribute with their merc or mara.

Not a huge fan of the hinder, but I like the other changes. If you think about it, every class has a powerful movement ability in some form or another, whether it be roll/mad dash, leap, force speed, hydraulic overrides, etc. I think any class can be played very successfully in huttball if a player uses their utility and defensives optimally. I personally think huttball (especially the "traditional" huttball match) is the most enjoyable warzone in the game because it emphasizes objectives and using your utility abilites.

I do really like the rest of the changes mentioned, I think they will make pvp more enjoyable and they all seem to be improvements on what the game is currently.

mad dash, leap with push/pull immunity every 13s, intercede every 13s, 2 speed increase one with cleanse, one with slow immunity

 

l2p

#1 - Joke. Mobility, Juggs, read some crap on the forums where peeps ***** bout jugg mobility.

#2 - push/pull immunity/slow immunity doesn't make any one "fast". That's not faster, that's not slower.

lnot2BeAnA-O.

I think this whole huttball discussion is ridiculous. Hinder the ball carrier? Who comes up with this crap? How are you supposed to make it past the two fire or acid traps? All because some classes are better than others at moving through these obstacles? L2P. For the love of God L2P. I can rocket out nearly as well as I can roll. I can charge as well as I can sprint. Who does this appease? *******s and possibly pt's? You guys do realize that one good sin is just going to pull the ball player over an over again into acid? The only thing that balanced huttball was the randomness of it appearing in q. Once again bioware is trying to fix a problem they are about to create. How about leave huttball alone. It's the best warzone? Why ruin it.

I suggest you just make a toggle for huttball or no huttball. Instead of being able to select or deselect every different type. Randomness of matches has been the only effective thing you guys have as far as balance.

All these pvp changes are going to be made on the belief that balance will happen. Balance in swtor? Is everyone new here? Bioware has never balanced classes. Or teams. Or anything. I can already see the work arounds and all these fixes are only going to achieve worse pre mades.

Good news. They're gonna stop hackers now too. Right.

Once again bioware I must ask you stop wasting your limited resources on things you can't achieve. Let's just spend all the advertising money on a commercial that only plays on bioware's website. And call it good

I think this whole huttball discussion is ridiculous. Hinder the ball carrier? Who comes up with this crap? How are you supposed to make it past the two fire or acid traps?

Literally, anyone who is not carrying the ball gets past the trap using his crazy mobility and accepts a PASS

I can rocket out nearly as well as I can roll. I can charge as well as I can sprint.

Really? Are you so good that you can rocket out twice in a row, wait 10 seconds and repeat? Can you sprint into targets on higher elevation, or charge fast forward when no enemy is there to target? Teach me, Master!!

You guys do realize that one good sin is just going to pull the ball player over an over again into acid?

I do it now with my sin tank now just fine with a very high success rate [by the way, you do realize only tanks can pull, right? How many sin tanks do you see since the last nerf?] with all the mobility. As long as they don't disable stun-breaker it will only be slightly harder to avoid, which means 95% of the players won't see any difference and die all the same, and the other elite 5% who can avoid it will finally not be virtually immortal, I call it WORKING AS INTENDED. Pull has a CD anyway, this is why in the current system people could goal past me when I played tank...

But forget about all that, a sin tank will pull "the ball carrier", but how can he pull the ball carrier if that carrier constantly switches location and personality via PASS

Seriously, guys, this is a repeated pattern here already, and this discussion is barely 1 day old, let's clear some things:

• The ball will not be soloed by a single guy from the spawn to the line. INTENDED.
  
• There will be no godlike ball carrier classes. INTENDED.
  
• A premade will find it harder to goal 6 times in a row in less than 3 minutes INTENDED.
  
• It will be easier to grab the ball from the enemy team once they have picked it at first, so the game is no longer about merely controlling mid and having phase walks. INTENDED.
  
• Trinity gets more weight, and damage which is not directly related to stuns and pushes actually has a chance to kill any ball carrier before he outruns you all. INTENDED.
  
• People who fail to understand things have changed and will cling to their old strategies will die repeatedly until they adjust. INTENDED AND HILLARIOUS TO WATCH.
  

#2 - push/pull immunity/slow immunity doesn't make any one "fast".

lnot2BeAnA-O.

ill just leave that one there for you to think about for a moment

ill just leave that one there for you to think about for a moment

You probably are referring to "slow immunity doesn't make any one "fast""

I think it is a matter of perspective, but you both mean the same thing. Slow immunity doesn't make anyone faster than he would be without any player intervention. But it does make him "faster" if you are assuming a player would slow him down had he not been immune. You are both right depending on the level of the opposition, you aren't faster if your opposition sucks, you are "not slower" (=faster) if they don't suck. I guess you are used to play against different kinds of people

Aww, I just read your first post about this and loved hinder was being introduced. Which cry babies ruined it?

Actually, many really good points were made about hinder. If you read the thread, you'll see for yourself that more elegant solutions to solve the same problems that we ALL have with Huttball and ball carriers can be solved without making Huttball a punishing stun-fest stalemate. I encourage you to read the rest of the feedback before you insult people and call them "cry babies". In my experience, much thought and quality feedback has been given to the topic here, and no one deserves to be mocked for trying to improve the game.

.

[*]The ball will not be soloed by a single guy from the spawn to the line. INTENDED.

[*]There will be no godlike ball carrier classes. INTENDED.

[*]A premade will find it harder to goal 6 times in a row in less than 3 minutes INTENDED.

[*]It will be easier to grab the ball from the enemy team once they have picked it at first, so the game is no longer about merely controlling mid and having phase walks. INTENDED.

[*]Trinity gets more weight, and damage which is not directly related to stuns and pushes actually has a chance to kill any ball carrier before he outruns you all. INTENDED.

[*]People who fail to understand things have changed and will cling to their old strategies will die repeatedly until they adjust. INTENDED AND HILLARIOUS TO WATCH.

What are you on? Hinder (already rolled back btw) would have handed huttball to premades and slowed the game to a tedious grind fest.

Yes, some classes are ez mode in Huttball but this wasn't the solution.

I may be the only that feels this way out of the group but....

 

Eric, I'd just like to caution design considerations wherein combat is further de-incentivized. I realize that objectives are apart of WZs but that doesn't mean it should be the only consideration.

 

There should be combat awards for point gains for combat actions that serve objective attempts. Introducing more objective mechanics is fine and probably what a lot of players would like to see and that's understandable. I just think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there are many players who enjoy the combat elements more than objective elements. They are both important as often one facilitates the other.

 

I also feel that what some other players see is just "deathmatching" unless they are watching what's causing the fighting or what it's purpose is due to it would be impossible to make an accurate assessment as such.

 

It's a Warzone, and in war people tend to try and kill each other. Even in real war objectives play their parts on the acquisition of strategic gains or environmental necessities in the further prosecution of War aims but they are very often coupled with military might in order to acquire and sustain strategic gains.

 

Not everyone's the same and people have different views on things so it's important to remember WZs should cater to different appetites and preferences.

 

Additionally sometimes people are intimidated by some of the objectives as they don't want to look "inept" if they fail, and thus are cautious about the potential for toxic rebuffs by other players so they try to avoid being in that position if they don't have to be.

 

Objectives and combat should go hand in hand. There's room for both and there should be both. For myself, I'm not sure if I would be considered a death-matcher in the traditional sense, I certainly emphasize the combat aspects, but I try to couple them with assisting the objectives by combat applications and leave objectives to those who are more suited to one type of objective over another, like we are seeing in this string about hinder and which classes would be the most suitable ball carriers. There are differences in the classes that make some better than others at certain activities.

 

There will always be need for combat applications that facilitate strategic goals, but when I see certain posters asking for a greater emphasis on the objective side of things and that changes should be made to prevent "deathmatching" that's a slippery slope. I don't think that most people are 'anti-combat' in objective PVP, I think that combat is a large part of the enjoyment some pvpers seek, I know it is for me. Just for consideration.

 

Takes all kinds.

Most would probably suggest that if you want less objective and more combat, queue ranked. That's what ranked is all about. I think when people are fighting off-node and away from all objectives for a good portion of the match, or standing at the enemy team's spawn and just "farming" kills instead of playing objectives at all, that's pretty clearly deathmatching/kill farming and not what unranked warzones are supposed to be about. I'm thrilled to see them working toward rewarding more objective based play in unranked warzones, and hope that it will help clear the toxic attitude that some people (not suggesting you, necessarily) have that even if they lose - if they got more kills then that's all that matters.

It does indeed take all kinds, but there are also different modes of play (ranked) for the kinds that want more straight combat and no objectives. This is not to discount the role that kills in unranked have, it is afterall PvP. But I do not think further emphasis on player kills is really going to be helpful but rather pushing in the wrong direction for unranked. Just my opinion.

.

BS. The only players that I know who "love" HB/QB are forming premades specifically designed for it, such as Huttball Themovie. I actually find HB/QB to be too imbalanced based on the class composition. If the other team has an Operative or two who's competent, and a Sorc or two, it's GG. Or alternatively, an Operative and a good healer/tank (Jugg) combo, where the Operative can just stealth into the opposing endzone or to the top ramp, wait for the Jugg tank to run the ball within range of Guardian Leap, unstealth just in time for the Jugg to Guardian Leap to him who will then Blade Blitz into the endzone. There's very little chance to stop that once he gets within range of that Operative, who you don't even know is there.

 

I've also seen teams comprised completely of Mercs, Marauders, and Snipers who are helpless to do anything more than control mid, but all it takes is one decent Operative and a well-timed Flashbang from stealth to steal the ball from them.

 

No, HB//QB is not considered "fun" by the vast majority of players I know and play with, and typically the only ones who want to see HB/QB matches are the premades who are content with easy and quick wins.

This is not my experience at all. The main thing I do in this game is play unranked and I've been doing it for a long time, on a variety of classes. The only classes I haven't played a ton in warzones lately is PT and Assassin. And 90% of the time I queue solo and huttball is by far my favorite game type on EVERY class.

Operatives may have a very strong ability for scoring (although I think the main problem is desync not giving you enough time to react), but ALL classes are 100% capable of scoring OR holding mid and they all have advantages and disadvantages. A team comprised of mercs, marauders, and snipers absolutely can win. I have successfully run the ball as every class I play as (op, guardian, sorc, marauder, commando, gunslinger) and been in all sorts of random comps and against different comps. They all have movement abilities or pulls or knockbacks or DCDs that can be useful.

If you have a lot of marauders, you can keep predation up most of the time and that's an incredibly strong ability in huttball. I've been against a team that had a PT on it who was absolutely single-handedly destroying us when we had the ball every time with fire pulls. Snipers can entrench to pick up the ball or alternatively are surprisingly good at running it with cover, entrench, roll, knockback, roots, good speed boost with a utility, etc. Mercs have rocket out to quickly get across a fire pit or into the goal line, hydraulic overrides, good DCDs, knockback, stealth scan, electro-net which is very powerful in huttball, etc. Every class can be useful and every class is capable of running the ball.

Premades can be very hard to defeat but that isn't based solely on comp, it's based on them communicating and having 4 people who definitely know what they're doing. But I've been in total pugs that have beat premades as well because everyone on my team individually knew how to play and actually tried to play together instead of aimlessly wandering around and refusing to touch the ball.

Operatives and jug tanks have a strong advantage but I'll say it again: if the other team is strong at quickly running the ball then instead of unsuccessfully chasing them take control of mid. You say a well-timed flash bang means the operative can get the ball but you can spread out so not everyone gets hit, use aoes to try to unstealth ahead of time, snipers can entrench, use CC breaker, etc. They're not unstoppable. Class comp can make a difference but it's rarely the deciding factor, in fact I'd say it's way more about the overall skill level of the players on each team.

Hey folks,

 

Quick update. We have really been enjoying the discussion around these changes, especially hinder. The team is looking at an option where we don't introduce hinder at all and make a different set of changes to achieve our goals.

 

Once they have those finalized I will swing back in the thread with their plans to get your thoughts. I should have them tomorrow or Friday. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

I will withhold judgement about dropping hinder until I hear the alternative suggestions, but what I am most pleased about is the fact that you are reading feedback here from all sides of the discussion and making changes based on what are (hopefully) good suggestions. That plus getting some people testing this on PTS will make for better changes overall I feel (and I would hope every single person who has posted at length here would be willing to hop on the PTS to give targeted feedback to the actual game play there).

Looking forward to hearing about alternative ideas! Thank you for being so responsive to us and the ideas presented here.

.

Those who picture slow walks from the ball spawn to the line are too narrow-minded and fixated on their current gameplay style to understand that they are not SUPPOSED to be holding the ball solo all the way anymore, but instead PASS it to the guy who USED to be your leap-target or sorc puller. The difference will literally only be the distance from the ball stand to the place where you used to leap/be pulled, and then the time it takes to walk down the bridge rather than roll down. The rest is same because the 2nd guy can still run there with his mobilities because at that point he is not a ball carrier!!

Actually, many people who are picturing this are not doing so because they are narrow minded and unable to think about the game in a different way, but because they have seen how this plays out before at a time when the game was very different from how it was now. See my post here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9609530&postcount=85

The long and the short of it is that when rated warzones existed, every team that was any good played under what was essentially a self-imposed hinder restriction, with a few differences of course. The "one guy carries the ball" strategy was the only way to win under those restrictions and passing the ball was considered a huge no-no in most circumstances. These were games played by the most highly skilled and creative players who spent hours every day theory crafting and playing and experimenting trying to come up with new strategies and tactics and new ways to approach the game. The meta in the other warzones changed on a regular basis, sometimes as frequently as every week or two. The meta in Huttball almost *never* changed because every time even the best players out there tried anything different, unless it was against vastly inferior competition, it went badly.

The predictions about what this change would do are not just predictions: they're people speaking from experience.

The counter to operatives in huttball:

1: Know how to do damage (sounds simple but most people really struggle with this)

2: Effectively use your roots and cc

If you can do these two things you can stop an operative from solo scoring the ball; if you don't manage to stop them from scoring the ball you do the same thing you would do if any other class was going to score:

1: Stop Chasing

2: Control mid

BW is finally making changes to introduce matchmaking and limit tanks/heals; I honestly think they should implement these changes before introducing any other mechanical changes to 8vs8 warzones because if they get this right most of the issues will simply go away.

Also, I want to thank Grim for pointing out that combat in pvp should be rewarded; in fact I think a greater focus on actual pvp engagement inside of warzones would potentially lead to an increased skill cap across the board and would result in a healthier pvp experience for everyone.

 

1: Stop Chasing

2: Control mid

 

.

The vast majority don't understand this because chasing the ball carrier across the goal line and then spending 72 seconds killing him after he has scored really makes a difference in the game................for their team.

Most would probably suggest that if you want less objective and more combat, queue ranked. That's what ranked is all about. I think when people are fighting off-node and away from all objectives for a good portion of the match, or standing at the enemy team's spawn and just "farming" kills instead of playing objectives at all, that's pretty clearly deathmatching/kill farming and not what unranked warzones are supposed to be about. I'm thrilled to see them working toward rewarding more objective based play in unranked warzones, and hope that it will help clear the toxic attitude that some people (not suggesting you, necessarily) have that even if they lose - if they got more kills then that's all that matters.

 

It does indeed take all kinds, but there are also different modes of play (ranked) for the kinds that want more straight combat and no objectives. This is not to discount the role that kills in unranked have, it is afterall PvP. But I do not think further emphasis on player kills is really going to be helpful but rather pushing in the wrong direction for unranked. Just my opinion.

 

.

I don't want to put words in the other poster's mouth, but I think you misunderstand him. I didn't read him as saying that combat should be emphasized more, only that it shouldn't be DE-emphasized.

Whether I read him correctly or not, that is my opinion. Certainly some players prefer to play more objective oriented, but at least to some degree everybody wants some combat - it is PvP, after all. I think the balance that exists in the game design right now is good... just about every map gives players the chance to contribute to the team by participating in combat as well as by focusing on the objective, and just about every map seems to present a decent balance of games which wind up being more about combat (like a tied Voidstar or a Civil War where mid goes uncapped for a while) and games which wind up being more about objectives (like a Voidstar with stealthers collaborating to steal a door or a Hypergate where there is a lot of offense and defense at the cap points). Importantly, even the more objective focused games still involve combat and vice versa.

The concern that I and others have is that changes would emphasize objectives TOO much and de-emphasize combat so that combat became a less important part of the warzones. We've already seen what that looks like: everybody's least favorite map, Odessan Proving Grounds. The design balance seems to me to be for the most part correct right now, so emphasizing objectives seems to be going too far the other way, which would be just as bad as going too far in favor of combat.

The vast majority don't understand this because chasing the ball carrier across the goal line and then spending 72 seconds killing him after he has scored really makes a difference in the game................for their team.

It depends. Is the ball carrier trying to stay in the endzone to receive passes or serve as a leap target? If so, killing him is indeed important. Now that's less true in a situation where your team successfully controls mid. In the old rated days the rule used to be that if the other team got the ball past a certain point you let him score and focus on mid (which is, it seems to me, precisely the kind of playstyle that the proposed changes encourage, but I digress). If your team can't control mid, sometimes the best option you have is to try to do stuff like kill the guy in the endzone and hope something goes your way.

The predictions about what this change would do are not just predictions: they're people speaking from experience.

I was there. My guild played 8v8 competitively, and were arguably one of the best PvP guilds in 8v8 on Begeren Colony. I thoroughly enjoyed HB back then. It actually took skill and coordination from an entire team to score, unlike what we have now where one or two players on the right classes can score the ball with little or no challenge.

Sorry, but your perspective is quite a bit different than mine, and while you're entitled to your opinion, I don't agree with it in the least.