Quick back-of-the-hand calculation:

 

Add one stack per second.

Eat %1 damage per stack per second.

Assume both players start at 100%, one deals 5% damage and rolls away, de-syncs etc. to reduce incoming damage.

No offheals -> x seconds to live where 1+2+...+x = 95

=> x*(x+1)/2 = 95

=> x = 13.29..., have to round up => 14s to kill this person assuming he doesn't damage back.

 

A concealment oper can mitigate around 6-7s of your damage while damaging you in turn, so 1v1 he should do alright. +1v1 with de-syncs and mobility aciding multiple people could still be possible?

 

I guess we have to see how it will work, but a milder penalty might be more appropriate, like .5% HP loss per second.

[edited] this mechanic is similar now to WoW arena. you can still heal after acid comes in.

THANK YOU! One-trick operatives like Prum will actually have to play and get good now. Sweet!

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"Hinder" should work just like electronet hinder. So im assuming if you cannot use something while neted it would be the same as holding the ball's hinder effect, I could be wrong about this but it would make sense. Hinder is already programmed as a debuff in the game.

 

So you will not be able to use pred (but you can be preded) and Overrides wont work. Sorc pulls should still work.

Hmm but I can still hit overrides right before the ball is passed to me?

For operatives/scoundrels, no more double-roll thru fire and into the endzone

[edited] this mechanic is similar now to WoW arena. you can still heal after acid comes in.

edit: and even as it is, I think the proposed change is better than how it is now and I fully support it.

I know - back of the hand calculation was for how long non-offhealing toons would have for chasing an operative who would run away. It may just be alright though - a lot of classes have enough mobility and for a running away operative a well-timed hardstun or two should do the trick to burst them. I'm just still a bit worried about an operative 1v4'ing people when he/she leverages de-sync.

 

edit: and even as it is, I think the proposed change is better than how it is now and I fully support it.

I am 100% sure this will be a non concern.

The reason operative acid cancer is so effective right now is how absurdly fast acid kills you. They need to buy very little time to let acid do 99% of the work. So little that double rolling towards some LOS, having all their dcds up if anyone actually manages to catch them, and clicking off their endurance buff can do the trick.

New acid will need the 10 seconds old acid *kills you in* just to *reach the dps of old acid*. You will have plenty of time to chase them and dump hard stuns and nets into them now. Which will make any 1vX extraordinarily difficult to win.

Operative acid trolls like to say that anyone losing to the tactic "deserves" to lose. This is idiotic. But starting with this new patch it will actually be true (except in 1v1s, which operatives win anyways).

[*]Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.

 

[*]Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)

-eric

Does Hinder apply to Sage/Sorc Pulls, too? If it doesn't then a Sage/Sorc + Tank becomes the de facto ball running team (given that Hinder basically says only have a tank run the Huttball). Also, would the Huttball matchmaking ensure a tank on both teams? The side without a tank would be at a disadvantage.

Snave's suggested healing debuff would be a better answer to getting more passing of the Huttball. You would only want to hold on to it for so long, dps would still do well as Huttball carriers, and the matchmaking wouldn't need to be as fussy about tanks/healers.

Completely disabling high mobility abilities is the wrong way to go. Unless you are a tank or a defence heavy spec you'll be mostly useless when carrying the ball.

---------------------

What they need to do is :

A - Temporarily increase the GCD when movement abilities are used

B - Increase the cooldowns of movement abilities.

C - Add a diminishing returns on healing received the longer you hold the ball to incentivise passing.

My suggested changes will still allow classes to use their iconic abilities such as leap and roll, however they will now have to use them wisely rather than spam them to cross the map.

---------------------

I seriously hope they reconsider these changes. Hutball will go from my favourite WZ to an insta quit overnight if these changes go through.

[*]Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.

I'm not quite sure if the team has thought this through. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility abilities that primarily have that function. What it doesn't stop is abilities that gain a high mobility effect through a skill tree or utilities. Classes and specs that have access to such mobility upgrades may have an unintended advantage over those who don't.

Also, consider that for some classes/specs, mobility boosters are a vital part of their defences and those defences are needed to carry the ball. For example, scrapper scoundrel is currently the best ball carrier, without question. It uses its roll immunity to protect itself while running the ball. Lethality operative uses roll to trigger its free cast of Kolto Infusion. Etc., etc. With permanent hindrance, scoundrel/operative will absolutely be the WORST ball carrier. You'll basically be trying to score with nothing other than Shield Probe and Evasion to protect you. If this change goes ahead, the best strategy for the carrying the ball as a scoundrel will be to immediately unload it onto the nearest team mate, as soon as you get it. The same principle applies to specs like Vengeance, which uses force charge to trigger its stun immunity or assassins which use force speed for the 60% damage reduction utility. A lot of these classes/specs are just going to be stunned and shredded as soon as they touch the ball. Think of the poor Vanguards who only have Hold the Line as their only ability that helps them carry the ball.

I agree that the current maps favour some classes over others, but the solution is to adjust the maps and not make many specs/classes unplayable as ball carriers.

I like the changes, but...

There is definite danger of the ball carrier always being the tank, grabbing it and solo carry it to the end, alternatively with sage/sorc pulls or vanguard/ptech swap. These abilities definitely need to cause loss of Huttball.

Also, maybe to disincentivize the role of carrier to only fall to tanks and to inctntivize actually throwing the ball like you are supposed to, if it would be possible, some reduction of their defensive buff to bring them more or less in line with others?

Pseudocode incoming

if (player.spec === "tank") {
   player.defense -= x%
}

I am 100% sure this will be a non concern.

 

The reason operative acid cancer is so effective right now is how absurdly fast acid kills you. They need to buy very little time to let acid do 99% of the work. So little that double rolling towards some LOS, having all their dcds up if anyone actually manages to catch them, and clicking off their endurance buff can do the trick.

 

New acid will need the 10 seconds old acid kills you in just to *reach the dps of old acid*. You will have plenty of time to chase them and dump hard stuns and nets into them now. Which will make any 1vX extraordinarily difficult to win.

Any offheals or two for the chasing people should make it a straightforward win still also.

Operative acid trolls like to say that anyone losing to the tactic "deserves" to lose. This is idiotic. But starting with this new patch it will actually be true (except in 1v1s, which operatives win anyways).

if they implement cross faction in solo ranked more people will be put into the player pool, this could help even out the elo situation or at least help it.

I think the values could be adjusted though. I'm willing to bet that it still has the same gains/losses from 2.4, and that regardless of cross faction doesn't sound correct.

The problem is that the elo gains are to low to compensate for the elo loss. For the current system to work correctly, the game needs WAY more people constantly playing like overwatch and such. I just feel it could be re-examined and made to feel more rewarding and less punishing as it stands today.

Well, without offheals, instead of 10s it now takes 14s. Not significantly longer, but 4s difference may be enough to hardstun and burst an operative who wasted a double roll and evasion. I might just be exaggerating the time it takes for an operative to kite.

 

Any offheals or two for the chasing people should make it a straightforward win still also.

 

++

my initial reading of what musco posted was that there's a flat 1% dps on you and a stacking healing debuff, but you've read it as both stacking. unfortunately the wording is ambiguous....but you're right that it would be about 14-15 seconds to die under your reading of it

edit: being able to medpac would actually buy you 2 more seconds, but this is still dangerously close to the old TTK if your interpretation is correct.

@musco can you clarify?

Hinder is intended to apply to to Sage/Sorc pulls, yes. Translocate / Transpose as well. Meaning those abilities will not work on Hindered targets.

 

-eric

Don't you think this is a boring change though? For me personally the enjoyment of Huttball comes from correct positioning and forward planning to use my class abilities.

• Line of site classes with leaps
  
• Move ahead for intercede/traverse
  
• Pushing/leaping people across fire pits to negate traps
  
• Pulling people from pits
  
• And lots of other tactics.
  

This change will turn Huttball from the most fun and engaging map to the most boring one - a lousy walking simulator.

Hinder is intended to apply to to Sage/Sorc pulls, yes. Translocate / Transpose as well. Meaning those abilities will not work on Hindered targets.

 

-eric

Tanks will become better ball carriers than they already are. And second, having a player who is not playing or does not play well will become even more of a disadvantage.

As you will be missing one extra body with 120k+ hp to slow down other players or get the ball.

Bottom line, this does not make huttball more fun. Maybe instead is a timer which limits high mobility actions to one per minute instead of completely.

Don't you think this is a boring change though? For me personally the enjoyment of Huttball comes from correct positioning and forward planning to use my class abilities.

 

 

• 
  

• Line of site classes with leaps
  
• Move ahead for intercede/traverse
  
• Pushing/leaping people across fire pits to negate traps
  
• Pulling people from pits
  
• And lots of other tactics.
  

 

This change will turn Huttball from the most fun and engaging map to the most boring one - a lousy walking simulator.

Exactly this.

On one hand Huttball is fun with leaps, pulls, trick moves, blade blitzes, scampers. On the other hand, a lot of the CHEESE is getting nerfed/destroyed.

Devs are turning Huttball into a passing game. Or heal-the-tank-ball-carrier game. Or a KB-the-ball-carrier-into-fire type of game. Sounds fair, but boring. ZzzzZz.

Or in addition to positive physics, does hinder make the ball carrier immune to roots and KB's?

Tanks will become better ball carriers than they already are.

I predict that Guardian tank will dominate the new meta. They have the best defensives for soaking up huge amounts of focus fire and they have a utility that adds a 35% speed boost to Freezing Force, which can be spammed.

I don't think a hinder is the right way to go with huttball.

I can still basically solo the average pug team in huttball on my operative playing lethality (without the roll immunity). It's not really about the movement. There are already tools to deal with that (ROOTS, stuns, electronet, 1 ******e skanktank assassin that will always fire pull you every single time).

Give the huttball carrier a healing received debuff, 30-40% would be plenty. Maybe also something that increases their damage taken, too, but not too much with that.

Hinder is intended to apply to to Sage/Sorc pulls, yes. Translocate / Transpose as well. Meaning those abilities will not work on Hindered targets.

 

-eric

I wasn't fully convinced about the changes prior but if pull by sages isn't possible I think that these changes are quite reasonable and going to improve Hutball a lot.

This will make tanks with heals/pulls be the only meta available in huttball. At this point because of the different mobility options almost all dps classes have some way they can be a ball carrier. Without those mobility options no dps will be able to carry the ball more than a few yards before they are ganked and killed. I understand you want to encourage people to pass the ball more, but please remember this is not a ranked 8v8 match, these are random pugs without voice comms, the matches will only be that much harder for non premades, while premades with a tank/heals will still do the same thing that they did since 1.X, give the tank the ball and have him walk it in, or just walk over to a waiting stealther and pass up.

 

Snave's recommendation of a stacking healing debuff would be a much better incentive to get rid of the ball while still allowing dps ball carrier to get away to a place with some breathing room.

You also lose a fair amount of root breakers available. Basically, a first level Assassin utility (root on Overload) to the fire bit now means that most classes either have to use breaker to get out or die to what is like a level 12 ability with a first tier utility. The mobility changes are astonishingly idiotic.

Edit: For Sins Force speed is also a potent DCD, same goes for Concealment roll, proccing heals for Lethality, Sniper roll... Furthermore, doesn't Predation work in spite of being Hindered?

You also lose a fair amount of root breakers available. Basically, a first level Assassin utility (root on Overload) to the fire bit now means that most classes either have to use breaker to get out or die to what is like a level 12 ability with a first tier utility. The mobility changes are astonishingly idiotic.

 

Edit: For Sins Force speed is also a potent DCD, same goes for Concealment roll, proccing heals for Lethality, Sniper roll... Furthermore, doesn't Predation work in spite of being Hindered?

Agreed, basically i predict i will hate huttball even worse than i already do. Strangely this means my role might suddenly be the best ball carrier and i still dont like it

Agreed, basically i predict i will hate huttball even worse than i already do. Strangely this means my role might suddenly be the best ball carrier and i still dont like it

I love the map (with the exception of the terrible desync and the power of certain abilities like fire pull), but these changes just seem arbitrary. "Mobility is the problem, get out the darts board so we can find a solution!" looks like the most likely thought process here.