Yes they should do something more with Vaylin

Yeah, but the thread started as an argument for *why* she should be brought back, and a big part of that for me is the lack of choice we had, not only in her fate, but how we had to treat her before that. So I wanted to address these things brought up by the poster that I missed the first time.

Happy to talk about how it would happen and how she would behave afterward, too, though. Even primarily.

Something like bonus chapter (the result of which can be obtained Vaylin as a companion) that can be unlocked by using the Cartel Coins

Especially in the site you can find some interesting ideas on this topic

#Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin

Snippage

Yes, I'd like to resist Valkorion more consistently, especially in KotET, especially regarding Vaylin, but also "go listen to him" and "he's made you powerful" from Lana. It's an issue throughout the expansions. I'd like more clearly sympathetic dialog for Vaylin. My main issue, though, is using the manipulation and techniques of her abuser against her. That should have been my choice, no one else's. Once we get to "Kneel" to humiliate, not to defeat, her, without a hint of regret or even embarrassment, I was done. The other things just feed into that. There's plenty of bad in the story, that was just the final redwood, the thing that makes me want to see it be made better after a year.

And I will say so. They crossed a line they should never have crossed. Not only did they give us the overused and, frankly, damaging trope that is Vaylin, and not letting her become something better, they also made us continue her abuse and manipulation. I just can't respect a story like that enough to rule out resurrection to fix it. Plus, if I'm to accept Vitiate returning, again, to bedevil us, or Revan continuing to be alive, that's a waste if it can't also be used to make this awful thing slightly better.

If there weren't precedent, in multiple ways, I wouldn't suggest it. And if the story weren't already so disgusting, I still wouldn't. Both being true, at least for me, it's what I think should be done. I don't expect it, but I'd prefer it.

The ghost option would be fine, but it won't happen in all likelihood. It's too complex, requires voice work, and so on. I think it's no more likely than her returning to the story in a bigger role. I would take it if it did, though like I said, I'm absolutely not against just full resurrection. Ultimately, all I would need would be some solid, sympathetic words for Valkorion's last victim, not "Every world Vaylin terrorized". I'd like more, but that would be good.

I disagree about the console option. It's not ideal, but it is throwing us a bone, and it allows the pretense of her having gotten something better fromT the story. I don't disagree that she would also be used to just "scream at enemies", I've even said that I would enjoy hearing that, but that's not all she would be, she'd be a sign that maybe they realize the error here. A ghost that can still lightning bolt things following us is not even against canon, or maybe we just tell our own story that allows her to live. Much as I'd prefer more official story, dead or alive, this seems to take less resources. I think it's a good compromise of what we'd like and what is practical.

I've also mentioned elsewhere (I think, was it here?) that I'd take just an acknowledgement that it was bad. A, "Sorry, we were rushed and didn't realize", if that's what happened. I think that's less likely than a full blown chapter, much less a non-story companion. Not criticizing, I just expect that it would hurt the company to do so.

Finally, they could also simply introduce a new similar character and do the story better. I don't expect such a thing to be viable for at least a year or two, though. There has to be distance between stories, and I'd like something now.

Like I said, the entire start of this was to present the WHY something should be done, and that's about the story they already did. Happy to discuss what should be done to make it better, but you did start out by explaining the story we have

It never made sense to me that the Outlander seems so surprised when Valkorion does what he does in Chapter 9. I would think that most Sith and Jedi would be savvy enough to figure it out way ahead of time. Especially the Inquisitor; after dealing with Zash this should have been like a glaring neon sign.

I also wish there had been ways to just shut Valkorion down every time he talked to you instead of engaging him in conversation.

The Chapter 12 line from Lana has never made sense to me. She's the one in the entire game that keeps warning you about Valkorion. She doesn't want you using his power and gets angry if you do. She keeps telling you that he has an ulterior motive and that he's not your friend, and she's also the one who notices Arcann and Vaylin's spirits flowing into the player and does not think it's a good sign. So for her to turn around and say, "Hey, go into the forest and have a chat with Valkorion, would you?" was weird.

I wish that they had given the player options to agree with Lana when she was warning about Valkorion and tried to talk out ways to get rid of him.

I think this is the key. They took someone with mental illness and abuse trauma and made her completely unsympathetic because she did not want to be around the people who helped enable her abuse and trauma. Even giving the Outlander a chance to refuse to use her conditioning and adding a line or two where the player could empathize with what she had been through would have mitigated some of that.

Looking back at the game overall, there are a lot of time people use 'crazy' and 'insanity' as pejoratives - even when you go with Theron to Belsavis for the Star Fortress there are several comments about "the crazy." There's an overall construct, and it's well beyond SWTOR and in society in general that vilifies people with mental illnesses, and it's not a good thing.

Same with some of the other characters, Lana seems to change ( not as much as Senya ) from the end of KOTFE to the start of KOTET.

KOTFE Lana would have been whining at me endlessly about absorbing Arcann's essence, and likely would have come up with a scheme to stop the same thing from happening with Vaylin.

They seem to have her fade into the background, and become less assertive, I guess because they were building up for the Arcann & Senya Show they hoped every player would want.

Media in general could stand to use it less. I think this one was uniquely bad, for a number of reasons I've already gone on about at probably too much length, but it's also just everywhere. I could certainly do with less of it in general.

This is the same game where we get a character with clear mental illness (and his wife, as well, who will probably starve to death at some point) .H e is being allowed to gather chemicals that he makes into unstable explosives. And it's played for laughs, we can't get him help, or even get him incarcerated for everyone's good. This kind of thing isn't unique even within the game.

Seriously. Even if she didn't have a plan, she could have advised against it, or suggested that there might be a way to stop Vaylin that didn't give Valkorion more of what he wanted. But, nothing.

Moff Broysc in the Sith Warrior story stands out as a particularly bad one. He's got no idea where he is or what is going on, your companion kidnaps him for their own vendetta, and the only options IIRC are to kill him or let your companion kill him.

Yeah, at least in my example, we don't kill him. And I get that this is a Sith Warrior and their buddy, but really? The way I remember it, his growing incompetence could have been because of his weakening mind, which would mean we execute him for being ill. Which is unsurprising for the Empire, but is odd for an LS Warrior.

Unless one of the options is something like, "Put him out of his suffering." That's probably LS in the game, which brings up a whole other problem with these stories, because that's at least as bad.