Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Yes they should do something more with Vaylin

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Yes they should do something more with Vaylin

Ner_idia's Avatar


Ner_idia
03.09.2018 , 09:18 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by gamephil View Post
I'm simpler, I just blame everything on Valkorion..
Unfortunately, you're more right than you probably realize. If you actually pay attention to what Senya says about Vaylin, what you have is a Force prodigy who instead of getting the help she needs to understand and control her powers, is instead put into a mental institution and used for experimentation.

The biggest beef many people have with how she was treated in KOTET was that Arcann, who makes both Hilter and Darth Malak look like schoolyard bullies, gets a free pass. Vaylin, on the other hand, becomes the storyline's punching bag.

evasilievna's Avatar


evasilievna
03.09.2018 , 09:18 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by gamephil View Post
You know, they already answered that question. More than once. You don't have to agree, but they have explained it. That is another technique of bad faith discussion, asking a question that has already been answered, over and over again, probably hoping to find a flaw in one of the many times the person replies. Between that, and the multiple times you have attributed attitudes to people that they didn't say, and presenting arguments that just don't make any sense at all, I'm not sure what to say to you. Maybe, go off and unwind?

Plus, you just completely flipped your statement, from "prove she's not at peace" to "why would she be". Why?
Please post an example of me " attributing attitudes to people that they didn't say"
Please post an example of "presenting arguments that just don't make any sense at all"
I'd like to have a fair audience, like.. let's say, 25% of forum posters. Can you do that? Nope, you cannot, so please stop accusing me of whatever crosses your mind,.
Now think how fortunate you will be to just wither away and never be ...

Unveil the curtain of sanity...

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.09.2018 , 09:59 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Ner_idia View Post
Unfortunately, you're more right than you probably realize. If you actually pay attention to what Senya says about Vaylin, what you have is a Force prodigy who instead of getting the help she needs to understand and control her powers, is instead put into a mental institution and used for experimentation.

The biggest beef many people have with how she was treated in KOTET was that Arcann, who makes both Hilter and Darth Malak look like schoolyard bullies, gets a free pass. Vaylin, on the other hand, becomes the storyline's punching bag.
We are mostly in agreement. I actually prefer the view that Arcann got similar, just off screen: it makes having an option to save him, whether we take it or not, more palatable. And I didn't want to go through two stories like Vayin's, but maybe I should have just dealt with it. It would have made the two stories less obnoxious to me taken side by side.

Make no mistake, I think they botched his story. The option to save Arcann, and how it's done, is the main thing I base my hope on, that the intent was that he was, I don't know, a bit less awful than portrayed, that he had some kind of lessened responsibility for his actions, I guess. It should have been the other way around, show why he "deserves" saving, maybe even reduce just how awful he is (and, really, her too), then save him. He got moments, right after killing Thexan, while speaking of him, that were less terrible, but so did she, but he gets the free pass and she doesn't. If we even had the option to lock him up, or if he got more grief from the Alliance, anything at all, it would be better.

But, even then, all it means that he gets let off the hook, if we so choose, but another victim just has to die.If Arcann has diminished responsibility for his horrendous crimes, to the point where he gets not just life but total acceptance, surely, she does, too. But, no last ditch effort to save her, no sympathy, no, "You can still be saved", just "She's broken. I see that now". Honestly, with exactly the same lines, if the Outlander had just had the option of, "We'll save her if we can", it would have been so much better.

The whole story is just too much. This is really what I would have liked for Vaylin: Show the mentally ill abuse survivor as NOT just a monster. I honestly think they did that, but so many people don't that it seems a bit off. But either way, that she had those elements that people could identify with, stapled on to the monster that has to be killed, is really iffy. And then the whole "Kneel" thing just left me finished with this, because whatever sympathies I might have, making my character to do that just makes my skin crawl. Then Arcann walking around like he owns the place? Like I said, too much. I honestly hope they have better stuff for him, in a way, but it seems like their trying to wash away his crimes, instead, pinning them on her.

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.09.2018 , 10:29 PM | #124
I must have gone blind, I can't find it again: I have to say, for the Kill Them All path, it ending with being able to tell her that no one can hurt her anymore, even her family, I do love that.

Ah, here it is:
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I really wish they'd at least given the Outlander a second with her at the end of the battle with Valkorion. Just one line where you could choose to say,"you're free. Your family can't hurt you now," I felt like it would have at least given some sort of closure there and a peaceful exit.

I mean, I usually view Senya especially a bit more sympathetically, but she left. She hurt her children, especially her youngest. Viewing her as in that post strikes me as totally understandable.

And even Arcann's writers, who seem to believe that he should be let off the hook, have him admit that he mistreated his little sister, if we let him live. They did Vaylin harm. I would have liked to be able to express that at the end, regardless of my usual views on them.

I do like having the option that ends with "Endlessly." "You're fun." But that's playing the villain, not a sympathetic character that gets what Vaylin's gone through and wants to give her some solace. I'd have liked multiple options of that sort, but it's too late, maybe. A scene where Senya and Arcann get the cold shoulder while she gets comforted would sit well. I mean, I'm a big softy and want everyone to get a chance, but I can easily see why some would want to kill them both, even if that's not how I reacted.

fishpeople's Avatar


fishpeople
03.10.2018 , 02:17 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by evasilievna View Post
Please post an example of me " attributing attitudes to people that they didn't say"
Please post an example of "presenting arguments that just don't make any sense at all"
I'd like to have a fair audience, like.. let's say, 25% of forum posters. Can you do that? Nope, you cannot, so please stop accusing me of whatever crosses your mind,.
Aren't you the same personl who was annoying the Arcann fans awhile back? constantly referring to him as 'Space hit***?

Then you cried foul play when the majority of people responding didn't agree with you?

Blackvinils's Avatar


Blackvinils
03.10.2018 , 05:12 AM | #126
Evasilievna, we have already understood that you have no interest in returning Vaylin, then why are you trying to get in the way of those who need it?


#Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin

Paulsutherland's Avatar


Paulsutherland
03.10.2018 , 05:33 AM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackvinils View Post
Evasilievna, we have already understood that you have no interest in returning Vaylin, then why are you trying to get in the way of those who need it?


#Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin
"Tis be but a test my friend, one to test our devotion, inspired by Esne, goddess of envy and twin of Aivela. Forever eclipsed by her sister's incandescence, she will use her venomous tongue to test the faithful and cull the weak."

Quote:
I do like having the option that ends with "Endlessly." "You're fun." But that's playing the villain, not a sympathetic character that gets what Vaylin's gone through and wants to give her some solace.
Villains can be sympathetic too!

Blackvinils's Avatar


Blackvinils
03.10.2018 , 05:41 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulsutherland View Post
"Tis be but a test my friend, one to test our devotion, inspired by Esne, goddess of envy and twin of Aivela. Forever eclipsed by her sister's incandescence, she will use her venomous tongue to test the faithful and cull the weak."
"So, i'm ready for this"


Quote: Originally Posted by Paulsutherland View Post
Villains can be sympathetic too!
My Nox is agreed!



#Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.10.2018 , 07:16 AM | #129
I am not going to continue to engage with this person. However, this accusation was clearly directed specifically at me, so I'm going to respond. one last time. I am certain it will do no good.

I see no reason to make everyone see it, though, it really has nothing to do with the thread. Much like attempting to exchange ideas with this person.

Spoiler

gamephil's Avatar


gamephil
03.10.2018 , 07:24 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulsutherland View Post
[I]Villains can be sympathetic too!
I will admit that I was wrong in saying that the Outlander in that doesn't get Vaylin or what she's been through. Just in a different way from what I was talking about. They look at what she's been made into and like it. That kind of acceptance is surely a type of sympathy. It's just not the kind of heartfelt moment I meant

I may have put too much thought into that.