Yes they should do something more with Vaylin

I did say it was sub-optimal. The idea that we can only exert enough force to break through one line in time makes sense to me. The idea that there are troops just kind of standing there without explanation and not helping in the desperate effort to save them is not a decision I get.

I mean, yes, ground needs to be held. But it was still odd.

I admit tend to forgive characters things that were the result of some of the writing. I wanted Vaylin to be a person rather than a caricature of a person with her villainy shoved in our faces constantly, in scenes that would have been more effective if she were shown to be sympathetic but still dangerous. I ignore Arcann having half his Knights die to "motivate them", and certainly that he hoped that Vaylin's spirit was "obliterated". Vette/Torian's deaths were one of those, in addition to my belief that some characters would still show Vaylin mercy if possible, but strike her down if necessary (regardless of my feelings about it, she WAS leveling the base, after all).

How about the way others feel? Why would any BH or.. (sorry i have no idea what class gets Vette as a companion) forgive Vaylin and recruit her or even consider romancing her?
You don't pity Vette/Torian, i don't pity Vaylin, she was bad to the bone, bad from birth, even her own mother said so ( killing people for dropping a ball she tossed.. ) Then why push so hard to have her ressurected and play the "poor victim" card?

Again, who is saying you can't? You want your eye, I never saw him say you couldn't have it. Please point to that, because I missed it.

And here we are, "bad from birth". What she said was, "troubled". She said she crippled the guard, which is bad enough, but we don't have the full context. She could have lost control because she has too much power and too little temper. The girl in the video looked to me like she was getting better control with Senya's help, then put in the arena where she lost control again. But, you know what? I get that others didn't take her that way.

If that view is right, it means that the devs gave us all that torture ****, not to explain her, not for sympathy for her, not to make her more complex, but for kicks. They used "violent tendencies" and "mental instability" not for any reasonable use of those phrases, but to say "murderous monster". That takes everything I've said about creating a story where my character needed to side with her abuser, and use her abuse themselves, just that much worse. I hope they never admit to that, because that makes her story just so much more destructive and awful than even I think it is. I like to believe that they are at least better than THAT, as bad as I think this was.

I still like to hope that the game is remotely worth playing.

I mean, seriously, I'm OK with people seeing her that way, ultimately. I'm not at all OK with it if it was the dev's intention, and I still hate them foisting that behavior on my character. But, regardless, I am not in any way saying that you shouldn't have options that fit that viewpoint. You got them. I just want options that fit mine. I don't even know why this is an issue, but it always is.

You are right, we don't have the full context in which Vaylin crippled a guard - a man or woman who might had family waiting at home.
About the "side with the abuser" part, sorry but my BH never accepted Valkorion's power, so she cannot be accused of doing anything to harm Vaylin.
But OK, you want to believe Vaylin was an innocent victim , is your right, you see the story in one way, i see the story in another way.
And again, why ressurect Vaylin and not Revan? After all he was Emperor's victim for a longer time, he deserved redemption more than Vaylin and he didn't killed any of your followers.. does that count?

For the most part, all these discussions about the resurrection / redemption Vaylin occur due to the fact that at the right moment the choice is about the preservation of save\kill was not implemented and (probably because Vaylin could be DS an alternative for those who prefer a darker way of passage KOTET, having not less interesting, open history, like Arcann) that left not the most pleasant consequences for that group of players who was not going to kill her.

Who (Vaylin\Revan) of them more deserve redemption - that is another question and quite flexible




#Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin

Yes, and what happened to the guard and the Knights is tragic. Obviously. Again, where did I say it wasn't, exactly? That's twice now you've basically tried to put words in our mouths, first by saying "what about my choice" when no one is trying to take it away, and I've straight up said so, and now this. it's getting a bit old. But if she's a troubled child with too much power, it can be forgiven if she can gain control, and if she's just a monster, the story pretty much breaks down the way they presented several elements (more below).

Sorry, but you certainly did side with her abuser. You didn't have a choice. You could reject his power when confronting Arcann, but had absolutely no choice but to use Vaylin's conditioning to force her, in pain, to her knees before her abuser. That, itself, paints a picture. And, because of the way it was set up, to humiliate rather than stop her. They could have provided any weakness they wanted, or given us compassionate choices that presumably fail, or let Valk pop out when we refuse to make her Kneel, but they didn't. They did this.

And, no, I don't think she is necessarily an innocent. I think that if she is not meant to have at least diminished responsibility, that the story is worse rather than better, but that doesn't mean that it's true. If she's not a bit innocent, they shouldn't try to pin any of it on mental illness, as with "troubled" and "mental instability", but let her be completely awful of her own will. If they meant her to be mentally ill in some way, and the torture and brainwashing was meant to be relevant to who she became, they should have given us the option to try to save her even if we fail, like any of dozens of episodes of Criminal Minds. What they actually did was some awful in between thing.

Finally, Vaylin rather than Revan comes down to two things: His story was sufficient, and her story was disgusting. He didn't kill any of my people, in spite of trying really hard, but likewise, I didn't use his torture against him. Yes, he was tortured longer, but by the Emperor. That gets my sympathy, but not my disgust with the writing that dragging us into it does, or make me feel like BWA thought that I would enjoy continuing his abuse. In fact, we get a chance to help him be whole. That's a good end. She didn't get a good end. Chapter 9 tries, but after everything else, not enough. If we'd had to do similar things to him, rest assured, I'd have been shouting for it to be overturned just as much.

OK, so you say Vaylin has an interesting, open story . My guildies hate her, most of them talk about companions i've never met, sorry if i got the names wrong : Victor, Jaesa, Kiera, Nadia, Mako, Doc, Asara. How about them? Why "the group of players" talking about them is never important? I have no benefit in either of cases, first one because Vaylin is dead for me, second because i have yet to play 6 different classes to meet the comps my guildies are talking about. Of course, i do not speak for my guild, they can speak for themselves, but again, why introduce new companions/romances when people did not get their class specific back?

And that's a third time. Please point out where anyone has said that they shouldn't get their companions back? Why keep moving the goalposts?

Anyway, that, I fully believe is higher priority, and I'd like it to not be so half done as the it was for Risha and Corso or Andronikos. I'd just like something done for this, too, and honestly, a mail with a companion and a note saying how she was rescued would be sufficient and not take too much time. I could be wrong on that. You can just delete the mail.

Again, i agree with you, a mail with "there's your Vaylin companion" is acceptable, the trouble is you automatically get back w/e mail item you deleted, for example i deleted the Chiss speeder and got a mail with it back, so delivering Vaylin as a mail item is not really the way.

Sorry but i have no idea who Risha and Corso are, yes i've seen people mentioning them, if they are from SI class it means i still have a lot to play to meet them ( only lvl 41 at the moment..)

Sorry, those last ones sounded more snippy than intended. Anyway...

Well, honestly, I also believe that it should be done in a way that anyone that doesn't want it never sees it. That's fair. Maybe a Nathema flashpoint where we get some kind of currency that can be used to buy her as a companion, or ignore that and buy decos and a new base (I'd obviously do all of the above), and the email comes with some text that explains what happened.

My preference is a purchased bonus chapter. It gets me the story I would like, BWA a bit more cash, and no one that doesn't want it ever has to see it. Ideally, it would do something with my story, but having such a thing at all is a big ask as it is.

Yes, I'm happy to give them money to fix something I think they broke. I like to think they were just rushed, and money helps with rushed.

Risha and Corso are Smuggler companions that came back recently. They got all of ten minutes of screen time and I'm pretty sure we'll see very little of them in the future. I'd like most or all the companions to get more than that. Their resources are stretched, so I'm thinking not, but I'd like to see that.