tl;dr Please make things so that they either take up time or take up credits but not both at the same time.

 

Warning: Beware falling Walls o' Text...

 

The mention of the Commander's Compendium being something around 4 million credits reminded me of this issue. Please pick one kind of sink at a time... please? I appreciate the work the devs are doing to keep the game rolling along and I know it's tiring for someone to always try to add something to your plate. I'm sorry.

 

Nevertheless, I think there needs to be a review across the game and in new features of what is being "sunk" with a given activity. To put this a different way, I feel that a credit sink should not also be a time sink and vice versa. One kind of sink can often be overlooked. Stacking sinks, however, feels like being penalized.

 

For instance, I feel like the current slot machines, both deco and event related, are time and credit sinks. Not only will one spend a lot of money, they will also lose a lot of time that could have gone to other activities. The fact that it drains money and time at the same time has led many people to say that they don't use them as much as they could. I personally have found that it feels like an endless waste of credits and time even though I know logically players have determined how much in credits it would take to get a cartel certificate for instance.

 

That's a shame because many people would love to play them more if it didn't feel like it was sucking up so much time and money. I feel like people would be way more inclined to use the slots if either of the factors was better mitigated. Time more so than money even.

 

The kingpin chips are the right idea but I think the odds still make it take too long. The whole system could use some more tweaking. Playing a minigame shouldn't get so tedious that you have to ask yourself why you are still trying for the item you want. Now, to be fair, I'm using the slots because they are a pretty easy and clear example of what I mean, but this concept pops up all over the game.

 

On the other hand, we do have some other aspects of the game which do better about focusing on one sink at a time. For the primarily time sink side we have the Umbara stronghold/Flashpoint and the Star Fortresses. It does not cost a lot of credits to get the stronghold or the deco drops, respectively, but you will put in a lot of time.

 

On the other side of the coin is the original Contraband Slot Machine. When first released, the base concept was a good credit sink. One could spend some credits but it didn't take long to get a good spin. I understand that there were other issues with the slot machine and it needed tweaking. I'm not talking about the nitty gritty details right now just the broad strokes. Another good idea is decoration vendors. Instead of running missions you just drop a few hundred thousand to a few million and go about your business. I'm aware that given the current inflation situation, this can kinda make things worse but one problem in a thread at a time.

 

In the future, I think there could be more player engagement with various activities if those activities specialize on what kind of sink they are. Many players for instance would love to sink time into something like Pazaak as long as they weren't forced to pay high amounts to do so. Other players would love to sink credits into a minigame or mission as long as it didn't take an hour to get one of the rewards they were after.

The Compendium appears to be a credit sink where the appeal is to potentially save time.

 

I don't really feel like I agree with your premise here. I don't see a problem with including playing time with credit sinks. The nightlife event (for example) is always popular the first week or two if the rewards are new. People will grind and / or pay if they feel the reward is worth it. Both are good for the game.

tl;dr A time sink is not the same thing as play time. Time sinks artificially inflate the time it takes to play a thing. Credit sinks inflate the amount of credits to get a thing. Stacking sinks feels like the game is playing with you instead of the other way around. It's not that fun when an activity takes the liberty of burning up too many of a player's resources at the same time.

 

The compendium is definitely a credit sink. However, the compendium isn't a problem yet it just reminded me to comment on this issue.

 

There is a difference between playing time and a time sink just like there is a difference between paying credits and a credit sink. Running one heroic takes time. Running the original Traitor Among the Chiss on a non-DPS character could take 2 and half hours of slogging through trash mobs. A player pays credits to travel between taxi points, something like a 1000 credits at most I think. The commander's compendium will cost over 4 million credits.

 

A sink is a design element meant to take a lot of something out; be it credits, time, or anything else really. This is not a reference to all occasions that may include taking something like credits but rather the ones meant to drain off a lot of excess.

 

The problem with time and credit sinks is that not everyone wants to also waste time when they are already burning a lot of credits, especially if it's already not their favorite content. More traditional design methods are set up so that you pay to speed up a process. However, on the flip side, games have often rewarded players for playing longer by cutting down on costs in game currency. For instance, you can buy a speeder outright or you can run a mission and maybe win one as a reward instead. One comes out of your pocket and the other out of your time.

 

Now the nightlife event is a good example of what I am talking about. Popular for the first few weeks, but it ran for months... That means that as soon as people didn't need to do it anymore they dropped it. If it were not a time sink at the same time as the credit sink, people would probably hang around longer even after they had won what they came for, especially if they were hanging out with friends while doing it. The original contraband slot machines were actually rather fun to play even when you got what you were after.

 

I hope the Devs reconsider the time sinks since I understand why they really need the credit sinks. Right now with player nerves as frayed as they have been lately, I think people's time is more precious than their credits. I can see making large credit sinks but please cut down on trying to also get players to spend a lot of time in the game on top of the credit sink. For many players that time was already sunk just getting the credits.

As I understand it, the Commander's Compendium costs roughly the same amount of credits that buying purple gifts from the vendor does. It saves a good bit of time by giving a companion one item as opposed to giving one gift at a time. There, you get what you want ... they have removed the time sink part of the equation. What's the problem again?

A time sink is not the same thing as play time.

 

Trying not to get caught up in semantics, but you can replace my phrase "playing time" with "game time" if it makes things more clear. I just mean time when you are logged into the game (playing SWTOR).

 

Back when we had the first CXP bug in the daily areas, those places were lively with players. It wasn't because it was new and exciting. It was still a daily grind to get the reward (CXP faster than ever before). The reward, however, made the grind worth it. But if the "play for the fun of it" factor was the reason people were there, those areas wouldn't have been virtually dead before the bug. People expect to grind (another term for time sink) for things in this kind of game. I just don't have a problem, personally, with having to grind for things.

 

If anything, this game has more times than not, catered to streamlining the playing experience from a time standpoint. So when there is something that involves a "grind" it isn't that big a deal, even if it is combined with a credit sink like the Nightlife Event. As long as the reward is worth it, people will participate.

Edited March 10, 2018 by BRKMSN

True, but a lot of times the reward would be worth it if it were a single kind of sink but not with stacking sinks. The rewards need to increase with each sink stacked on top of the previous ones, but that is the subject for a completely different thread. In fact I think I have an effort vs reward thread buried somewhere that touches on that.

 

Nevertheless, if I understand it correctly, this is an issue with harder group content. It is both a time sink and possibly a credit sink in the form of repair bills. The rewards need to be comparable to the amount of time and expense put in and sometimes players feel it is not so they don't do that content. If one of the sinks were lessened, say enough credits to offset repair bills, it might not be as irksome.