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Jedi Guardian- vigilance or focus?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Jedi Guardian- vigilance or focus?

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
02.08.2018 , 03:50 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I had a match like this. 4 skanks. I had 2 million protection. The other 3 didn't so much as taunt. And had the nerve after the match to complain that I died more and did more damage than them, who were supposed to be "dps tanks".

The damage thing is because of sheer survivability. The dps calculation of damage done total / total time is an obvious benefit to whoever lives the longest and has the most uptime on targets. In addition generally if I'm tanking, I'm also probably in the middle of things where dps are probabky picking people off. These all make a result on damage boards.

If you want to dps go dps. If you insist on skanking learn to guard/swap, taunt, etc.

Maybe we have differences of opinion but I'd rather have a good vigi/focus guardian over a tank that doesn't know how to tank any day.

Further if you're guarding as a dps guardian you're most likely doing something wrong. Taunt away sure. But guarding? That's a good way to die in seconds.
We don't have a difference of opinion, what you're saying is they need to L2P but that applies to DPS as well. A DPS that doesn't taunt or peel is just as bad as a tank that doesn't do those things, they don't get a pass from me because of their spec. Still would prefer a bad Immortal player over a bad Vengeance player.

That being said, its sad how crappy Vengeance is right now. Played a couple matches with it the other day, the only thing its good for is dot spreading for fluff, its dots don't even hit hard enough to apply real pressure, and there's just no burst at all now that Ravage is no longer a big hitter. If I play Immortal I can do the same type of damage, but I actually have burst to kill things with, and I can take more damage. The only things I lose out on is doing big fluff damage in dogpiles at mid (still do decent there) and taking slightly longer to kill someone in a 1v1, but neither spec is killing anyone fast in 1v1's anyways so its not like you're really changing much.

Rage can give burst, but the Marauder version is better in almost every possible way. And old Vengeance at least had burst potential with Ravage, if you time an Impale or Vicious Throw to go off right after the last tick of Ravage you could pack a lot of damage into a small window, nothing like that exists now, and the spec doesn't have any true hard hitters since everything also applies a dot. Its like playing a Madness Sin now but with weaker dots and no stealth, really boring.

Also you keep saying Immortal only does big damage because it stays alive longer so it has greater uptime, but this is circular logic, like yeah its true, but being able to maintain uptime is half the battle for dealing damage. It matters, and is something that you always take into consideration, its why for a long time ranged were greatly preferred to melee DPS in many operations, because they could continue to apply damage more freely than melee in many fights. And in PvP, survivability is always a key factor in the damage you deal.

EDIT: And there's absolutely nothing wrong with situationally guarding as a DPS guardian if you know what you're doing and trust the person you're guarding, typically a healer but can vary. There are definitely times where loaning someone 50% of your HP is more beneficial than not doing so, even as a DPS. Are you maintaining it all the time and guard swapping like a tank would, no, but if you're not using it at all you are wasting a valuable tool.
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DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
02.08.2018 , 04:57 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Again can we please stop recommending people who want to dps run skanks? 2 nights ago I had a match with 3 of my guys. The 4 pugs were 3 skanks and a tank. I was the only person in the match (a full length voidstsr) to break a mill protection.

Just... If you want to dps, do it in a spec that can kill things. If you insist on skanking learn to tank.
This is the reason I stated active stances kepted this to a minimum because people would suggest a DPS spec in the tank stance. Lol the reason I am actively suggesting they reinstate them.

But sometimes I guess you canít have everything your own way as itís part of a choice and the reason I loathe people who complained about people using the wrong stance took away a choice but also caused more of a problem than it solved.

I know you may disagree because you have different views on active stances but you canít deny removing them has caused a bigger problem than it has fixed.
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wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
02.08.2018 , 07:54 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
This is the reason I stated active stances kepted this to a minimum because people would suggest a DPS spec in the tank stance. Lol the reason I am actively suggesting they reinstate them.

But sometimes I guess you canít have everything your own way as itís part of a choice and the reason I loathe people who complained about people using the wrong stance took away a choice but also caused more of a problem than it solved.

I know you may disagree because you have different views on active stances but you canít deny removing them has caused a bigger problem than it has fixed.
I kind of agree with this, that being said this has been an issue since launch that Bioware has never cared to balance. Its extremely difficult to find the proper balance anyways, a trinity is fine for PvE since everyone has their role but in PvP its so dynamic that designing something that fits in all scenarios is almost impossible.
Kandel - Juggernaut Ležf - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.09.2018 , 03:34 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
This is the reason I stated active stances kepted this to a minimum because people would suggest a DPS spec in the tank stance. Lol the reason I am actively suggesting they reinstate them.

But sometimes I guess you canít have everything your own way as itís part of a choice and the reason I loathe people who complained about people using the wrong stance took away a choice but also caused more of a problem than it solved.

I know you may disagree because you have different views on active stances but you canít deny removing them has caused a bigger problem than it has fixed.
The people that used stance dancing as a short defensive thing I didn't mind too much. It was the ones who did it claiming to be tanks thst bugged me.

That said, there do seem to be more issues now than before for dps guardians. The terrible scaling/ninja nerf to focused defense was just the beginning.

Not directed to you, but I want to say it anyway.
As I said on the PvP forum, dps in warzones is calculated with no consideration of the amount of time spent in actual combat. It's damage dealt total / match time total. The match time is the same for all players regardless. Thus it comes down to total damage dealt. Well if you're dying constantly, you're probably not getting much combast time in. And thus not doing much total damage. Naturally, my tank is more survivable and thus gets more damage total.

This is less of a comparison to the ranged v melee uptime on ops bosses that favor ranged, and more of a comparison to a dps that dies and thus the tank gets more total damage. Can't dps when dead after all.

This is why I keep saying part of this fix to skanks needs to address dps specs of tank capable classes survivability/inability to survive any kind of focus.

If you include only the amount of time spent in combat (no consideration of "down time" due to kiting etc) my vigi guardian will have more dps than my skank any time any day and by no small margin.