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Nerf Guard!


KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.07.2018 , 12:57 PM | #331
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Actually, your post doesnít provide any compelling evidence whatsoever for guard being overpowered. Itís mostly just you whining that people donít take you seriously because you donít pvp exclusively. The real reason youíre bad isnít that you donít pvp exclusively, though. Itís more along the lines of you having no idea what youíre talking about, imo.
Lol rafi is a tank that's been defending guard on this forum with me for literal months. He's not trying to prove it's op.
Quote:
If guard wasnít in the game, pretty much all pvp would just be tunneling the squishiest player. Picture a 4v4 dps solo ranked match everywhere you go, because who would tank if they canít use guard to peel, and who would heal if you just get piled on by four dps and stunned into oblivion? Guard gives tanks a reason to exist in pvp, and it also provides counterplay and introduces strategy in getting kills. This whole ďZOMG REGS ARE OVERRUN WITH HEALERS AND TANKSĒ nonsense has more to do with match making than an actual balance issue: if a team has multiple tanks and healers of course you arenít going to be killing anything with the terrible regstar dps who populate the average war zone and this forum. Now I know counterplay, complexity, and strategy are pure anathema to most of the terrible people who are posting in favor of this thread, and Iím sincerely sorry for making you all have to consider them.
I've tried to say this before in multiple places in the thread.

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
02.07.2018 , 12:59 PM | #332
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Actually, your post doesnít provide any compelling evidence whatsoever for guard being overpowered. Itís mostly just you whining that people donít take you seriously because you donít pvp exclusively. The real reason youíre bad isnít that you donít pvp exclusively, though. Itís more along the lines of you having no idea what youíre talking about, imo.
No, but it is clearly stated you didn't read ANY of my other posts, or at least don't remember them (or don't link them with my name), and barged into the conversation to find a chance to insult someone.

Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
If guard wasnít in the game, pretty much all pvp would just be tunneling the squishiest player. Picture a 4v4 dps solo ranked match everywhere you go, because who would tank if they canít use guard to peel, and who would heal if you just get piled on by four dps and stunned into oblivion? Guard gives tanks a reason to exist in pvp, and it also provides counterplay and introduces strategy in getting kills. This whole ďZOMG REGS ARE OVERRUN WITH HEALERS AND TANKSĒ nonsense has more to do with match making than an actual balance issue: if a team has multiple tanks and healers of course you arenít going to be killing anything with the terrible regstar dps who populate the average war zone and this forum. Now I know counterplay, complexity, and strategy are pure anathema to most of the terrible people who are posting in favor of this thread, and Iím sincerely sorry for making you all have to consider them.
Friendly fire? (which proves you read nothing I ever said)
I say guard is NOT OP and doesn't need a nerf. You quoted a post in which I counter the OP of this thread who says that guard is OP. I truly tried and couldn't find a single way to get to the opposite conclusion and think I hate guard. Please enlighten, so I can be clearer next time, and when you do, maybe approach less offensively?

MackPol's Avatar


MackPol
02.08.2018 , 06:39 PM | #333
I suggest trying group ranked ( more accessible now) and discovering how guard works in trinity scenario with matchmaking...
I suggest playing a burst set up and discovering new and amazing way to enjoy this game by using thinking and coordination to do a hard swap and get a kill. It will most likely change your opinion and make game more fun by not smashing buttons to do aoe.
This thread hopefully ends soon.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.09.2018 , 01:58 AM | #334
Quote: Originally Posted by MackPol View Post
I suggest trying group ranked ( more accessible now) and discovering how guard works in trinity scenario with matchmaking...
I suggest playing a burst set up and discovering new and amazing way to enjoy this game by using thinking and coordination to do a hard swap and get a kill. It will most likely change your opinion and make game more fun by not smashing buttons to do aoe.
This thread hopefully ends soon.
Arenas and warzones are entirely different things, even in Regs. Guard isn't an issue in Reg arenas either, assuming neither team gets hit hard with the matchmaking bat. Where it becomes an issue is in warzones where there are objectives beyond just killing your opponents and the long TTK in this game helps create a situation where the team that caps two nodes first nearly always wins, even assuming the teams have an even distribution of specs. Assuming the defending team is reasonably competent and at least evenly matched with their opponents, the long TTK makes it very difficult for the attacking team to clear enough defenders off a node in a short enough window to capture.

It's also why sometimes you have Voidstar matches where one team wins by capping only one door.

Guard of course isn't the only thing contributing to absurdly long TTK but it is a major part of it. The other is DPS classes having self heals and tank-like defenses. Although it is unlikely to happen, all of that needs to be adjusted to bring the TTK down and make level 70 PVP more fast-paced.

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
02.09.2018 , 03:20 AM | #335
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
Arenas and warzones are entirely different things, even in Regs. Guard isn't an issue in Reg arenas either, assuming neither team gets hit hard with the matchmaking bat. Where it becomes an issue is in warzones where there are objectives beyond just killing your opponents and the long TTK in this game helps create a situation where the team that caps two nodes first nearly always wins, even assuming the teams have an even distribution of specs. Assuming the defending team is reasonably competent and at least evenly matched with their opponents, the long TTK makes it very difficult for the attacking team to clear enough defenders off a node in a short enough window to capture.
The question in such matches is why did one team get 2 nodes to begin with?

I agree of course that in some matches that involve too many non-DPS classes on one or both of the sides it is quite a stalemate. The problem is balancing the survivability of such groups on the one hand and not making groups of 8 DPS too fast to kill on the other hand. Imagine if 6 DPS could be killed by 6 DPS in 6 seconds like it usually is in MOBA games. It just doesn't fit with the current style of this game.
Sadly enough, if TTK was low so that stalemates wouldn't exist on node-defense maps, it would also probably mean that all huttballs will end with a 0-0 tiebreaker or be a question of "who has more operatives".
The current situation is not optimal, but altering the balance needs to be done very very delicately, and of course not harm the trinity usefulness on the one hand while still not making trinity absolutely mandatory on the other hand.

Liquor's Avatar


Liquor
02.09.2018 , 04:03 AM | #336
First 2 caps means nothing when I'm online. I'll take it everytime in a 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2.
Know your class and utilities. Understand how to use it to maximize your performance in objective play.

I can't count how many times I load into a reg and my team is behind, and we win or make a comeback that stresses the other team out.


Reading this thread and the many there concerning gaurd and it always comes back to L2P effectively


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Schoock's Avatar


Schoock
02.09.2018 , 08:38 AM | #337
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
Guard of course isn't the only thing contributing to absurdly long TTK but it is a major part of it. The other is DPS classes having self heals and tank-like defenses. Although it is unlikely to happen, all of that needs to be adjusted to bring the TTK down and make level 70 PVP more fast-paced.
I could name at least one other issue, at that would be the DPS players not being able to do even 2k DPS, sometimes hardly even 1K.

Which brings us to my usual topic: before randomly swinging the nerfhammer, can we please fix the bads?
Faction imbalance is the scientific term for saying player skills mature at a later age than that of the intended audience of a certain faction.

Ne'laa & other Mentally Challenged from The Red Eclipse

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.09.2018 , 02:47 PM | #338
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquor View Post
First 2 caps means nothing when I'm online. I'll take it everytime in a 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2.
Know your class and utilities. Understand how to use it to maximize your performance in objective play.

I can't count how many times I load into a reg and my team is behind, and we win or make a comeback that stresses the other team out.


Reading this thread and the many there concerning gaurd and it always comes back to L2P effectively


.
I can 1 vs 2 as well and have captured off nodes. That has nothing do however with whether the TTK is too high with guard. You know who you aren't 1 vs 2ing at an off node? A healer-tank pair. Not unless they are flat out bad & get capped on while stunned. (Nor should you be able to 2 vs 1 a healer & tank for that matter, I only mention that to steer things back onto the topic of guard.)

Up against a team with two healer-tank pairs that captures two nodes first? GG. Unless they're flat out bad they're going to be able to lock down both nodes indefinitely.

Glocko's Avatar


Glocko
02.09.2018 , 04:20 PM | #339
I q every day on star forge for an hour or two and have never run into these unstoppable healer tank combos. Never even seen a screenshot posted.... I even remember people posting in these nerf tank threads how they were gonna roll a tank and show how mighty they would be.... still havenít seen one of them come back and post anything. The same people complain about marauders, snipers, Mercs, healers, stealth, operatives, etc. Let,s focus on the real issue:Power Techs... letís not leave them out nerf them to the ground

Foambreaker's Avatar


Foambreaker
02.11.2018 , 12:10 PM | #340
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Hmm less than a month ago you were claiming

So what exactly is the purpose of this thread, other than complaining about a mechanic that has existed forever?
One is a detail of the other, you didn't catch that?
Only bads need to defend PvP advantages...