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Joysticks


phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.27.2018 , 12:39 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by FlavivsAetivs View Post
like with the control scheme not being gimballed that will keep keyboard/mouse players superior over you.
Oh I get that. I knew it from way back when in beta. I never phrased it quite as coherently as Verain did in the 2017 thread, but that's precisely the reason I would always swap to a mouse if I was in a turret of a multiplayer ship in SWG-Jump to Lightspeed, because the turrets were gimballed. Still, the OCD in me would love to have a profile that was as good as it was ever going to get for joystick compatibility in GSF, with all the caveats described. With the Saitek you can configure sensitivity zones within the degrees of freedom of the stick, that might help reduce the awkwardness. But, this is more musing on my part and probably not helpful. I'll go back to my regularly scheduled operation now.
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EhiLightingrider's Avatar


EhiLightingrider
04.06.2018 , 01:31 PM | #12
i did not know about the 15 and 17 posts i just was asking . its not like i asked can you make me the god of the game and everyone needs to worship me at my feet. i just asked can they put in some support for a joystick, i enjoy GSF but i hate having to use gunships to keep up with the movements of others i do better and maneuver better with my Saitek set up i bought for SWG when JTLS was released i cant do the maneuvers with one hand on the mouse the other on the keyboard its easier to do it with a flight control joystick .

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
04.08.2018 , 09:12 AM | #13
It is allowed to use a joystick. In the sense that it doesn't violate the EULA, TOS, or Code of Conduct.

To do so you need a third party program that essentially takes the USB HID input from your controller of choice and reformats it to look like the USB HID format for mouse and keyboard. Then SWTOR can "see" the inputs because it only looks for inputs in mouse and keyboard format.

From a perspective of becoming a better GSF player though, this is a mistake because:

GSF is not a flight game.

It is a mouse cursor point and click shooting game wearing a Star Wars themed flight game costume. The costume isn't really of particularly high quality in terms of disguising the mouse cursor point and click nature of the game, but people want a good Star Wars themed flight game so badly that many fool themselves into believing that GSF is something that it's not. Don't fall into that trap.

In terms of recommendations, I'll give the following:
  • To get some use out of the Saitek stick, get a flight game you like and use the stick for that.
  • To get better at GSF, practice with the mouse, and maybe look at some tutorials linked here in the forum. Oh, and maybe experiment with mouse sensitivity in Control Panel or any config software that comes with your mouse, turning down sensitivity helps a lot of people in GSF.
  • To enjoy using the Saitek in GSF, resign yourself to: the hassle of configuring third party software to map stick input to mouse/keyboard input SWTOR can read, having incredibly bad scores in GSF because the input hardware will cripple your shooting in a shooting game, and the need to not discuss your control set up in chat unless you want other players to go ballistic over you handicapping yourself into uselessness.

Objectively as a control scheme, the stick is a bad idea, which is why those of us that have sticks, technical competence, and a desire to do well in GSF matches don't use our sticks in GSF.

Logically, SWTOR is a game that is played in order for the player to have fun, and if using your Saitek is a necessary condition for you to have fun in GSF, then your best course of action should be obvious.

(Just don't mention that you're using the stick in chat unless you want other people on your team to go ballistic with rage).
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ThutmoseV's Avatar


ThutmoseV
04.09.2018 , 12:49 PM | #14
Actually it is pretty simple. If both joysticks and mouse are allowed, then one or the other will have an advantage, depending on how the controls in the game are designed. Since everyone will have a mouse, and not everyone will have a joystick, the fairest way is to optimize the control system for mouse. Most SWTOR players are playing their characters in ground PvE or PvP. some will discover and enjoy GSF as a sideline, and a few will make GSF their main experience in SWTOR.
if you want to use a joystick badly enough to adapt it to GSF, that's fine, but you cannot expect GSF to favor joysticks when doing so penalizes many SWTOR GSF players in a game that is not primarily about spaceship combat.
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
04.09.2018 , 02:29 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by ThutmoseV View Post
Actually it is pretty simple. If both joysticks and mouse are allowed, then one or the other will have an advantage, depending on how the controls in the game are designed. Since everyone will have a mouse, and not everyone will have a joystick, the fairest way is to optimize the control system for mouse. Most SWTOR players are playing their characters in ground PvE or PvP. some will discover and enjoy GSF as a sideline, and a few will make GSF their main experience in SWTOR.
if you want to use a joystick badly enough to adapt it to GSF, that's fine, but you cannot expect GSF to favor joysticks when doing so penalizes many SWTOR GSF players in a game that is not primarily about spaceship combat.
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EhiLightingrider's Avatar


EhiLightingrider
04.10.2018 , 03:56 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by ThutmoseV View Post
Actually it is pretty simple. If both joysticks and mouse are allowed, then one or the other will have an advantage, depending on how the controls in the game are designed. Since everyone will have a mouse, and not everyone will have a joystick, the fairest way is to optimize the control system for mouse. Most SWTOR players are playing their characters in ground PvE or PvP. some will discover and enjoy GSF as a sideline, and a few will make GSF their main experience in SWTOR.
if you want to use a joystick badly enough to adapt it to GSF, that's fine, but you cannot expect GSF to favor joysticks when doing so penalizes many SWTOR GSF players in a game that is not primarily about spaceship combat.
see this is NOT why i asked ....one gets advantage over the other ....in swg i got into dogfights that was epic against a player using mouse and keyboard and me with my stick the guy tried to out maneuver me and did many times and i was considered a ace by my guild anyone needing xp in space id go up blow bunch of imp gunships in my privateer ship and all was well but to be fair yes i spent time in real F-18 simulators and had some instruction on maneuvers. i made a trade with the flying marines i let them shoot my rifle or one of the heavier anti material/light armor rifles........it was NOT uncommon for us to steal and hide rounds storing them away for things like making trades .....and they would let me get time in the simulator so we traded jobs for a bit ( i made sure i was friendly with the jet jockeys being if the **** hit the fan and my *** was hanging out in the breeze. it was them that came to save me) i am not by far saying i am the best out there but i think people fear flight controls because then they wont dominate the sky's against people like me who cant hold a ship level enough to fire 1 missile

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
04.10.2018 , 12:33 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EhiLightingrider View Post
see this is NOT why i asked ....one gets advantage over the other ....in swg i got into dogfights that was epic
....
to be fair yes i spent time in real F-18 simulators and had some instruction on maneuvers
I, too, played in SWG extensively on Flurry and towards the end, Starsider. When I was on SS I played with Anishor's guild, who was the pilot senator. Anyway, I can tell you that a big difference between JtL's control scheme and GSF's control scheme is that the guns and the steering are linked because in GSF the primary weapons are gimbaled. Think of it like the turrets on a POB ship in JtL ... I never wanted to use my stick when I was in a turret, using a mouse to control the turret was always superior. Same is true in GSF.
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Lendul's Avatar


Lendul
04.11.2018 , 12:51 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by EhiLightingrider View Post
see this is NOT why i asked ....one gets advantage over the other ...
noble

Quote: Originally Posted by EhiLightingrider View Post
i was considered a ace by my guild anyone needing xp in space id go up blow bunch of imp gunships in my privateer ship
impressive

Quote: Originally Posted by EhiLightingrider View Post
people like me who cant hold a ship level enough to fire 1 missile
the game is afoot Watson

Quote: Originally Posted by EhiLightingrider View Post
i think people fear flight controls because then they wont dominate the sky's against people like me
you are correct and by your own admission they turn people that can't fire a missile into an ace soley through technological advantage

I would like to thank you for making the strongest argument yet for why joysticks would be a bad idea and reinforcing that Bioware did, in fact, make the right call.

ps let the healing begin

Verain's Avatar


Verain
04.21.2018 , 02:25 PM | #19
Lendul pretty much nails the response.

I'll add this: the attitude of "once I have proper HOTAS support, I'll be able to beat these K+M players!" skips the fact that plenty of the K+M players have HOTAS setups available or could buy them if it was necessary. If a player isn't excelling under the same exact control scheme as everyone else has, that player won't excel once everyone plugs in the theoretical now-mandatory HOTAS. It's pretty much the worst reason to want a stick-based control scheme in a pvp game, because on top of everything else, it won't even solve the problem that the guy wants solved.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."