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Leave murader alone buff other melee classes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Leave murader alone buff other melee classes

Mannok's Avatar


Mannok
01.17.2018 , 11:50 AM | #71
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kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
01.17.2018 , 11:52 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Janglor View Post
Tell me one competitive pvp MMO period, the genre is dying unfortunately.
FeelsBadMan...
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

EnzoForMe's Avatar


EnzoForMe
01.17.2018 , 12:06 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
Couldn't really agree more. Viability of Mara (and any other melee for the matter) for high skill PvP (to some extend regz depending on team composition) is balancing on a knife's edge, countered by good Mercs and Sniper all day long without real effort.


Priority List.
Sniper: Remove CD reset (same problem as 3 chained CC immunities on Mara. Just twice as big twice as long)
Sniper: Reduce Sniper Bunker Mechanics to max 10s (with 40s. CD) 4s on rolls.
Sniper: Remove auto crit. CD. but give Bunker Mechanics during Ambush activation time.

Merc: Remove Shield reset so it has a 2 minute CD and not ~50s.
Merc: Remove instant Tracer M.

Others: begin adressing other balancing issues not as detrimental to the whole game.
I'd be fine with these changes as long as Ruthless Aggressor now had a 66% chance to backfire and blind you for 3 minutes while inflicting a continuous DoT based on your MH primary damage due to you accidentally slicing yourself since you can't see anything.

The >only< reason sniper is strong in group ranked is uptime, not raw dps. Marksman sniper in particular has some of the lowest dps in the game, but it shines in pvp because of two reasons:

1.) You can target switch to the unguarded target instantly, with no delay (read: efficiency)
2.) Entrench allows to avoid most stuns for large periods at a time, maximizing uptime and covering sniper's defensive weaknesses out of cover

Out of cover, sniper is about even with powertechs/sins in terms of survivability. They have no passive mitigation (cloak of pain, for example) no escape while stunned, no stealth out, and no defensive cooldowns that can be popped while stunned. That is why when another 4s team runs a sniper into us, they are already on the back foot. We have consistently taken out the opposing team's sniper with diversion + 2 hard stuns + mez on the tank/heals in a total of 4-5 seconds counltess times this season. If entrench lasted 10 seconds, you wouldn't take a sniper in group ranked.

Believe it or not, the utility change to the ballistic shield's 3% heal + DR was indeed a significant nerf to snipers. I don't even take it anymore. That utility was grossly OP, playing sniper to 3.5k rating in solos last season was trivial because I was pretty much unkillable. I didn't complain at all when Bioware nerfed that utility, it was needed.

Let me be clear: I'm not saying snipers need a defensive buff, but no other class is tied to a singular ability in the way that sniper is to entrench. Tampering with it would have consequences far greater than adjusting RA/force cloak combined

The nerf to mercs defensives was less severe since people still take them, but mercs are so awful in 4s that I don't really want to see any nerfs to them. The fact that you believe mercs need further nerfs is indicative of the level at which you experience the game.

The value trees for Pressure and Hardswap DPS are as follows, for people's future reference:

Hard Swap

Carnage Mara & Marksman Sniper > Deception Sin >>> AP PT >>>>>>>> (non-competitive) Rage, Arsenal, Concealment, Lightning

Pressure:

Annihlation Mara & Smash Mara >> Engineering Sniper > AP PT > Vengeance Jug > Hatred Sin >>>>>> (non competitive) Lethality, IO, Maddness, Virulence
Caprica
#1 Team Ranked Sniper: Seasons 3 and 6
#1 Solo Ranked Gunslinger: Seasons 2, 8, and 10

Mannok's Avatar


Mannok
01.17.2018 , 12:22 PM | #74
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EnzoForMe's Avatar


EnzoForMe
01.17.2018 , 12:26 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
And who used Diversion again?

Sorry not funny. Snipers was the worst thing that happened to swtor PvP, due to Cover and Bunker mechanics in general. Not anyone playing it, just the mechanics and Devs keeping them viable for PvP. Give them 4s Stealth useable every 20s for all I care. That would be No problem
No other class hard counters its own class like sniper does, it's an interesting mechanic and very illustrative of just how weak the class is out of cover. And I don't want 4s stealth every 20 seconds, I think you missed the point of the post but that's okay.
Caprica
#1 Team Ranked Sniper: Seasons 3 and 6
#1 Solo Ranked Gunslinger: Seasons 2, 8, and 10

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
01.17.2018 , 12:28 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
Reply: Rambo

Agree! totally. More input from best players.

It is just that survival issues in general PvP, has affected game balance more than all other Things. As far as I have been able to read into the dev posts and balancing done along the way. And Trinity based PvP is not what most players play. So the 4v4 Trinity situation isn't really useable as a baseline.


Let us leave it at that
If you completely homogenize all the dps classes to be their own tank and/or healer and don't want to consider tanks/healers in your match into your equation, you are theoretically creating an even worse problem than you started with. You understand that right? No one would ever die, ever; it would be worst then having five 4.0 sorc healers on your team. You have to consider trinity when designing class balance because it's the core foundation of pvp in this game.

If you care so much about this then fight for match making in regs. If not, go play solo ranked where there IS actual match making or play team ranked where players play trinity. This is where you find the most balance in the game.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

Mannok's Avatar


Mannok
01.17.2018 , 12:28 PM | #77
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kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
01.17.2018 , 12:31 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
No sorry I didn't. All classes are weak when double stunned and not allowed to use DCDs. All classes can be focused in a stun or double stun unless they got a DCDs specifically designed to counter Stun and Extreme Burst.
This is absolutely a false statement. Marauders, Sorcs and Mercs for example, can use dcds while in stuns. So no, not all classes are equal in this regard.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

Mannok's Avatar


Mannok
01.17.2018 , 12:33 PM | #79
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EnzoForMe
01.17.2018 , 12:33 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
No sorry I didn't. All classes are weak when double stunned and not allowed to use DCDs. All classes can be focused in a stun or double stun unless they got a DCDs specifically designed to counter Stun and Extreme Burst.
Classes with a direct counter to stun & double stun:

Sorc: Barrier & Phasewalk
Merc: Reflective shield
PT: Kolto (stronger in 4.0 era when it healed more)
Jug: Endure Pain, reflect if popped before stunned (most DCDs like evasion, sin refelct and saber ward are useless when stunned since defense chance goes to 0, this ability still works and works well)
Mara: RA (if used before stunned), cloak of pain

I'm not going to continue this exchange, you've used enough of my time. I would say we've gone off-topic, but as has been mentioned this thread is a regurgitation of bad ideas so you're right at home here.
Caprica
#1 Team Ranked Sniper: Seasons 3 and 6
#1 Solo Ranked Gunslinger: Seasons 2, 8, and 10